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P90D (Insane) is quicker than P85D - Review

Discussion in 'Model S' started by luvnMyTS, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. luvnMyTS

    luvnMyTS Member

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    #1 luvnMyTS, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
    I had posed the question a while back wondering if the P90D without Ludicrous would be quicker than a P85D without Ludicrous. People have said the battery alone doesn't add performance. But if that were true, then why wouldn't a P85D with the Ludicrous upgrade be as quick as a P90D with Ludicrous? According to Tesla, the P85D after the upgrade is still supposed to be 2/10ths off of a P90DL.

    Nobody had an answer yet.

    Finally today I had the opportunity to answer the question for myself. At least I think so anyway.

    After searching the internet long and hard, found many 1/8th mile times for the P85D from the same track I was at. Best I could find was a 7.37 @ 93 MPH. Most ranged from 7.402 to 7.5 with MPH ranging from 91.68 to 93.4

    P90DL times that I found from the same track were naturally more limited, but ranged from 7.11 to 7.24 @ 94.33 to 95.35 MPH.

    I was at the track for another reason and wasn't planning on running, but the race director said I should give it a try. The line was astronomically long. Never knew how many cars the Thursday night drags drew! VERY IMPRESSIVE! I had other commitments that I was there for, but the race director was kind enough to give me one single run without the long wait.

    This was the first time in 24 years that I've been to an actual drag strip with the light tree. Naturally, my reaction time sucked at .298.

    But fortunately reaction time doesn't affect ET or MPH, which was what I was after.

    Pleasantly surprised, my P90D (Insane Mode) ran a 7.298 @ 93.24 MPH. 1.634 60 foot time. Without launch mode and without having preset "max battery". And the car was loaded with about 200 pounds in work equipment.

    The above are the simple facts. The rest are my thoughts and review of the Performance option. Feel free to read it if you have a moment, especially if you're on the fence about a 90D, P90D or P90DL. Maybe, it will help??

    So, I think my theory proved to be accurate. P90D with only Insane Mode is quicker than the P85D. From what I understand, the P90D with or without Ludicrous has the fuse already installed, with Ludicrous solely being a change in software programming for $10,000. I have it in writing that I can upgrade my P90D if I ever choose to do so, for $10,000 of course. When I bought it, I just couldn't justify the extra $10,000. I struggled justifying the first $20,000 to go from a regular 90D to the P90D as it was. I make a good living, but am not filthy rich by any means. And $30,000 to upgrade was getting into "stupid" money for me, just for the kicks of quicker launches. Really, that's all you get for the extra $30,000!! I compromised and got the P90DI instead of the L.

    For me, the launches are still incredible. I get all the same reactions from people as seen on youtube. Which, being that I'm not drag racing the car daily, is really what you pay for. Not sure any of that would change if I had the Ludicrous option.

    Not sure how much quicker the car would be in Launch Mode and with "Max Battery", if any quicker at all. But considering it was my first and only run in fairly cold temps, I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with the results. Less than 2/10ths off the best P90DL time I could find. Clearly the difference would increase if running a 1/4 mile as my slightly lower MPH reflects. Ludicrous definitely carries the speed longer than Insane mode. The 60 foot time is about equal to the P90DL, likely due to traction limitations, so nothing lost there. And less than 2/10ths in the 1/8th mile. Where I live, there's no chance I could do a full 1/4 mile run on the streets, likely not even a 1/8th mile run to 93 MPH. I launch it from 0-60 and have to shut it down. Based on the 60 foot time, am guessing my car is within a tenth from 0-60 of the P90DL, certainly less than 2/10ths since it's less than 2/10ths slower to 93 MPH.

    So for my use, I wouldn't have been able to ever reap the benefits of the additional Ludicrous power. So I'm glad I saved the $10,000. Again, based on where I live and what the streets are capable of giving me as far as leeway for launches. If I was still going the drags every week like I did 25 years, then certainly would have ponied up the extra cash. For street use, don't feel like I'm missing a thing.

    Another very satisfied Tesla customer! Now if we can just figure out how to get the stock back up, we'll all be in great shape!!!
     
  2. whitex

    whitex Member

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    Well, those people who said that would be wrong - battery alone makes a difference (hence if you upgrade P85DL to 90 battery you will get P90DL performance). The reason why the 90 battery adds performance over an 85 battery with retrofitted fuse and contactor is because the battery itself can deliver more power. It could be because 90 battery's internal resistance is lower, causing less voltage droop which would mean less of the power wasted in the battery itself (which at full Ludicrous throttle at 1500A can be as much as 135KW of power (which is >180hp) lost in the battery). It could be because 90 battery can source 1500 sooner or for longer. It could be both factors combined. There is not enough reverse engineering data available on the 90 battery, but those are most likely reasons.
     
  3. Niclas

    Niclas Member

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    So, I am not surprised. This is what we all suspected, both that the P90D is quicker than P85D, and the fact that you can upgrade your insane to ludacris as software retrofit. I wonder why Tesla is not communicating this to the customers? But I must say that is a very expensive software update for a mere 0.3 s.
    Does this mean that the 90D is quicker than the 85D too??
     
  4. tinanbran

    tinanbran Member

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    J
    I am curious about that too. I just upgraded my order from 85d to a 90d!
     
  5. tstafford

    tstafford Member

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    Where did you read this? And 2/10ths of (a second) on what measurement (0-60?, quarter mile?)?

    I'm not aware of this math. But there have been so many numbers tossed around.
     
  6. marty2112

    marty2112 Member

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    #6 marty2112, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
     
  7. fiksegts

    fiksegts Active Member

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    lots of variables here, different SOC for the cars, different options, weights, etc, launch mode/on/off, battery heated, etc... really need to have two cars charged up and run at the same track, same day to see the differences, or race them side by side...

    i would be interesting to have the option of sport/insane/ludicrous in the same car P90DL car...
     
  8. hly

    hly Member

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    To me the Ludicrous upgrade is not about faster quarter mile time. It is about faster acceleration from a constant 50-60 mph highway speed.
     
  9. cbin97

    cbin97 Member

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    I upgraded my P85D to an L and I notice it daily and love it! I need to take to the track and compare (no max battery) v (max battery) v (launch mode). That would be fun. Daily driving I notice a big difference when I am fully maxed and heated up.
     
  10. luvnMyTS

    luvnMyTS Member

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    #10 luvnMyTS, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
     
  11. NSX1992

    NSX1992 Member

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    You must have been at Irwindale where they love Teslas. That P85D with 7.27 @ 93 was me at Irwindale and am anxiously waiting for my Ludicrous upgrade. I expect 0.2 sec improvement but the strip will tell. At least $5,000 is not as bad as $10,000 even though I won't be quite as fast as the P90DL. Tesla has only stated that P85DL will be 0.2 sec faster in quarter mile and 0-60 than P85D and slightly slower than P90DL without stating an exact time.

    @ cbin97 where and when did you get the upgrade?
     
  12. cbin97

    cbin97 Member

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    @nsx1992 Costa Mesa in Dec. I was the third retrofit done there. They stopped scheduling but I have a friend that just got back on the schedule for March.
     
  13. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    What I was going to say but you beat me to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What was your SOC for that run?
     
  14. WestCoastP85D

    WestCoastP85D Member

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    According to the Service Center, P85D and P90D have the exact same acceleration (non Luda) characteristics, the variable is often equipment level (weight) of the car. According to them, Luda is different due to the 90 having slightly higher energy output, but it isn't apparent for "insane" mode power draws. The motors are the same part numbers.

    Again - that's according to Fremont in discussions for my Luda upgrade. I am on the schedule for this Thursday.
     
  15. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

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    all this talk about irwindale makes me want to take my soon to be produced p90d there....
     
  16. NSX1992

    NSX1992 Member

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    My SOC was 80%, I did 7.427 @85%. My next event will be Feb 21 at Fontana 1/4 mile which is very close to a Supercharger so I'll be close to 100%.
     
  17. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    You produce 17 hp less at the wheels at 80% vs 90% on a warm battery but without using max battery mode.

    Or 397KW vs 414KW.
     
  18. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    There are very few data points on the P90D without the Ludicrous Mode software enabled.
    Thanks for sharing your data with us.
    It will be interesting to see you do a few more trials and get a good profile of your car's performance potential.

    BTW, do you have the MAX performance preset option for pre-warming the battery?

    Since you do not have Ludicrous... is the high performance setting called INSANE mode?
     
  19. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Yes, P90D non L is called Insane in the menu.
     
  20. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Sorka, are you in the queue to get an L upgrade?
     

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