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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

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Ok... I am assuming it can't be a warranty violation to stay at whatever version of firmware is in your car, and simply rejecting any upgrades? So would there be some warranty issue in rolling back to say....version 7.1 ???? And if a person wanted to do that. how would that person proceed???
Going forward, since Tesla does not tell us what all the changes of a software upgrade will entail, we need to do our own regression testing before executing the software upgrade. If we can roll back it is a non issue. If the entity testing the release can roll back, then we could provide as many libations as the entity would like, to execute regression testing for us. Validating the areas we are most concerned about... like power at a given SOC and the effects of the LM and MB etc.
I will volunteer to sit with the entity at their favorite establishment to insure the entity is compensated for their efforts.
 
I did some testing this morning. Which I replicated from a prior test for Old Man Mike.

When at 90 SOC 247 rated miles

Before CounterGate software fix I reported:
MB OFF 483kw

After CounterGate software fix:
MB OFF 447kw

I will contact Tesla and ask them to fix the huge power loss I am seeing. I have not seen any warnings.

I think everyone who has a P model should contact Tesla as i suspect it will take a pr issue before tesla corrects this power robbing software! Oh yea, that was already done and we received an updated software to remove any power robbing software, NOT!!!

Seriously, if everyone with P models would tweet at Elon maybe he will remove the software robbing performance! I'm curious to know if the test cars have the software reducing performance or if they get full power like we all want!
 
My Model X P100DL is only achieving 515kw when in Ludicrous plus when I used to get 575-580kw. My battery was warmed up and ready for max power just like I have done in the past but as soon as I hit throttle I go from max power ready to cooling. It last maybe 10 seconds after lifting from throttle and then it returns to max power ready. I have called Tesla SC and they are reviewing logs. The guy I spoke with tried giving me a lecture that he advises against ludicrous+ bc it shortens battery life so I quickly let him know I traded in my McLaren 12C on this vehicle bc I wanted something fast that my family could enjoy and Tesla never said anything about performance reduction or shortening battery while I spoke extensively with Tesla before ordering about the performance of the P100DL. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I am with Tesla! First off I was better off before there update that supposedly removed performance reduction. Don't act like your removing something when your not and don't sell a vehicle that you sell on performance when it can't handle the performance. I could literally full throttle my Tesla on track all day long and it never suffered performance degration! This needs to be corrected in an appropriate manner by Tesla!
Hopefuly we can get an answer from @JonMc
 
Bhz,
You continue to conflate engineering with business. I've done both and there is a difference.

You engineer a product to a spec then market that spec. Tesla is free to make all the engineering trade offs they like in the design process. Once they start to sell it, they should be held accountable to that spec (for everyone but you of course).

Ha! That is so old fashioned! Do you feel that way about Windows or your laptop or iphone too? Or the Office 360 or Netflix service you signed up for? Because that was how it worked with old-fashioned fixed model year cars and other durable goods -- pencils down, engineering trade-offs are made, and no more will be made and the product design is a fixed thing.

But that is not it works with more recent software and updated hardware. and Tesla now brought that flexibility to autos. More consumer products will be updated continuously. It is never pencils down. And bless them for that.

The engineering trade-offs will continue to be made. I suggest you get used to it and stop sounding the like old man yelling for the kids to get off his lawn. ("Don't change that thing that I am now used to!")

Without the MTTF data and wear rates and projections, it is pretty impossible for any of us outside of Tesla to intelligently critique their engineering trade-offs that they must make every time they roll out an update.

But if we look at the type of people doing this, we see that the people calling the shots are people who take pride in making the fastest 0-60 car ever -- and it is a frickin sedan hatchback! I'm not at all concerned about them not being aggressive enough. They are not at all conservative in that way and do not have any improper nanny attitude at all. They are the most aggressive automaker, probably most aggressive consumer product company ever.

Without any real evidence to contrary, I don't have any reason to doubt that they are making intelligent and well-informed trade-offs to give us the best balance of acceleration vs longevity vs safety.

And more importantly they have a fiduciary duty -- not to pacify your speed-racer preferences -- but to maximize long term value for shareholders. As one of only two US automakers to have never visited bankruptcy, they have to remain prudent. And certain types of use that could cause customer complaints because of breakage -- whether in or out of warranty -- should be reasonably avoided. It isn't just a short term financial decision. Like their emphasis on safety, it is long term way to preserve the value of the brand and the survival of the company.

A proper critique could be on their communication side -- they could certainly share more information about what the issues are, how they are making the decisions they are making, and how we can manage for ourselves the best way balance accel vs wear. They have done that to some extent with the p100d easter egg. That is a good practice that I expect to see more of.
 
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Ha! That is so old fashioned! Do you feel that way about Windows or your laptop or iphone too? Or the Office 360 or Netflix service you signed up for? Because that was how it worked with old-fashioned fixed model year cars and other durable goods -- pencils down, engineering trade-offs are made, and no more will be made and the product design is a fixed thing.

But that is not it works with more recent software and updated hardware. and Tesla now brought that flexibility to autos. More consumer products will be updated continuously. It is never pencils down. And bless them for that.

The engineering trade-offs will continue to be made. I suggest you get used to it and stop sounding the like old man yelling for the kids to get off his lawn. ("Don't change that thing that I am now used to!")

Without the MTTF data and wear rates and projections, it is pretty impossible for any of us outside of Tesla to intelligently critique their engineering trade-offs that they must make every time they roll out an update.

But if we look at the type of people doing this, we see that the people calling the shots are people who take pride in making the fastest 0-60 car ever -- and it is a frickin sedan hatchback! And they are the type of people that crash an uninsured McClaren. etc. I'm not at all concerned about them not being aggressive enough. They are not at all conservative in that way and do not have any improper nanny attitude at all. They are the most aggressive automaker, probably most aggressive consumer product company ever.

Without any real evidence to contrary, I don't have any reason to doubt that they are making intelligent and well-informed trade-offs to give us the best balance and acceleration vs longevity. And more importantly they have a fiduciary duty -- not to pacify your speed-racer preferences -- but to maximize long term value for shareholders. As one of only two US automakers to have not visited bankruptcy, they have to remain prudent. And certain types of use that could cause customer complaints because of breakage -- whether in or out of warranty -- should be reasonably avoided. It isn't just a short term financial decision. Like their emphasis on safety, it is long term way to preserve the value of the brand and the company.

A proper critique could be on their communication side -- they could certainly share more information about what the issues are, how they are making the decisions they are making, and how we can manage for ourselves the best way balance accel vs wear. They have done that to some extent with the p100d easter egg. That is a good practice that I expect to see more of.
You are just ... the most impractical person. Everyone has explained to you why you are way off-base, but you persist with the same tired assertions. @lolachampcar is correct - the product was changed after sale, multiple times. For the better, people will accept. For the worse, you are going to have a riot. In any industry.
 
Ha! That is so old fashioned! Do you feel that way about Windows or your laptop or iphone too? Or the Office 360 or Netflix service you signed up for? Because that was how it worked with old-fashioned fixed model year cars and other durable goods -- pencils down, engineering trade-offs are made, and no more will be made and the product design is a fixed thing.

But that is not it works with more recent software and updated hardware. and Tesla now brought that flexibility to autos. More consumer products will be updated continuously. It is never pencils down. And bless them for that.

The engineering trade-offs will continue to be made. I suggest you get used to it and stop sounding the like old man yelling for the kids to get off his lawn. ("Don't change that thing that I am now used to!")

Without the MTTF data and wear rates and projections, it is pretty impossible for any of us outside of Tesla to intelligently critique their engineering trade-offs that they must make every time they roll out an update.

But if we look at the type of people doing this, we see that the people calling the shots are people who take pride in making the fastest 0-60 car ever -- and it is a frickin sedan hatchback! And they are the type of people that crash an uninsured McClaren. etc. I'm not at all concerned about them not being aggressive enough. They are not at all conservative in that way and do not have any improper nanny attitude at all. They are the most aggressive automaker, probably most aggressive consumer product company ever.

Without any real evidence to contrary, I don't have any reason to doubt that they are making intelligent and well-informed trade-offs to give us the best balance of acceleration vs longevity vs safety.

And more importantly they have a fiduciary duty -- not to pacify your speed-racer preferences -- but to maximize long term value for shareholders. As one of only two US automakers to have never visited bankruptcy, they have to remain prudent. And certain types of use that could cause customer complaints because of breakage -- whether in or out of warranty -- should be reasonably avoided. It isn't just a short term financial decision. Like their emphasis on safety, it is long term way to preserve the value of the brand and the survival of the company.

A proper critique could be on their communication side -- they could certainly share more information about what the issues are, how they are making the decisions they are making, and how we can manage for ourselves the best way balance accel vs wear. They have done that to some extent with the p100d easter egg. That is a good practice that I expect to see more of.
Agreed. Updates are great. Engineering trade-offs are reasonable. Increasing power after delivery is fine. Taking power away is NOT ok. Doesn't matter what the circumstances are. They need to eat the warranty costs to learn not to make this mistake again.
 
Ha! That is so old fashioned! Do you feel that way about Windows or your laptop or iphone too? Or the Office 360 or Netflix service you signed up for? Because that was how it worked with old-fashioned fixed model year cars and other durable goods -- pencils down, engineering trade-offs are made, and no more will be made and the product design is a fixed thing.

But that is not it works with more recent software and updated hardware. and Tesla now brought that flexibility to autos. More consumer products will be updated continuously. It is never pencils down. And bless them for that.

The engineering trade-offs will continue to be made. I suggest you get used to it and stop sounding the like old man yelling for the kids to get off his lawn. ("Don't change that thing that I am now used to!")

Without the MTTF data and wear rates and projections, it is pretty impossible for any of us outside of Tesla to intelligently critique their engineering trade-offs that they must make every time they roll out an update.

But if we look at the type of people doing this, we see that the people calling the shots are people who take pride in making the fastest 0-60 car ever -- and it is a frickin sedan hatchback! I'm not at all concerned about them not being aggressive enough. They are not at all conservative in that way and do not have any improper nanny attitude at all. They are the most aggressive automaker, probably most aggressive consumer product company ever.

Without any real evidence to contrary, I don't have any reason to doubt that they are making intelligent and well-informed trade-offs to give us the best balance of acceleration vs longevity vs safety.

And more importantly they have a fiduciary duty -- not to pacify your speed-racer preferences -- but to maximize long term value for shareholders. As one of only two US automakers to have never visited bankruptcy, they have to remain prudent. And certain types of use that could cause customer complaints because of breakage -- whether in or out of warranty -- should be reasonably avoided. It isn't just a short term financial decision. Like their emphasis on safety, it is long term way to preserve the value of the brand and the survival of the company.

A proper critique could be on their communication side -- they could certainly share more information about what the issues are, how they are making the decisions they are making, and how we can manage for ourselves the best way balance accel vs wear. They have done that to some extent with the p100d easter egg. That is a good practice that I expect to see more of.


8 paragraphs.. I refer you to Gish Gallop - RationalWiki
 
bhz,

Even if I agree with your rather long post above, it goes a long way with not really saying anything.

You are missing the main point (as has been also stated by others above). Advertised specs induce sales and have consequences. Manufacturers of all stripes who falsely advertise are subject to bad press at best, litigation at worst and many unfavorable things in between.
 
I hate being quick to judge before knowing all the details. The history with Tesla has been straining for me so far, and so I jumped on this current issue with a lot of negative emotion. I just had a nice lunch, and started thinking , what if Tesla simply made a mistake in their implementation of the counterGate fix software release? What if this is only a software bug? That Tesla did not mean to cause this result?
I say this because the SA I have contacted is acting like the LM change was only an "enhancement" . The SA has been very straight with me up to now. Since P100DL owners are reporting power loss also, when I didn't expect them to be involved with the original issue? Has it been proven that the P100DL battery is not suspect to the damage from high current? If so, why would they get a power reduction?
Trying to be more opened minded... not easy though.
 
I hate being quick to judge before knowing all the details. The history with Tesla has been straining for me so far, and so I jumped on this current issue with a lot of negative emotion. I just had a nice lunch, and started thinking , what if Tesla simply made a mistake in their implementation of the counterGate fix software release? What if this is only a software bug? That Tesla did not mean to cause this result?
I say this because the SA I have contacted is acting like the LM change was only an "enhancement" . The SA has been very straight with me up to now. Since P100DL owners are reporting power loss also, when I didn't expect them to be involved with the original issue? Has it been proven that the P100DL battery is not suspect to the damage from high current? If so, why would they get a power reduction?
Trying to be more opened minded... not easy though.
I hope it's a mistake too but how bad are you at your job if you are removing reductions with software but you "accidentally" add performance reductions!
 
Hi Everyone -- The software update that removes software performance reductions tied to frequent max battery power usage is being deployed now. With this update, maximum power output will be achievable anytime both Launch Mode and Max Battery Power Mode are engaged.

To summarize, we are observing that now launch mode and max battery power mode is required to achieve the highest power output, whereas before only max battery power mode was required. @JonMc are we correct in our observations that this change was intentionally made?
 
Ok... I am assuming it can't be a warranty violation to stay at whatever version of firmware is in your car, and simply rejecting any upgrades? So would there be some warranty issue in rolling back to say....version 7.1 ???? And if a person wanted to do that. how would that person proceed???

It isn't a warranty violation to stay on 7.1, but we have at least one person on the forum that is currently staying on 7.1 because of HVAC changes. He is having Bluetooth and Slacker issues and Tesla has essentially said we can't help you with those issues until you upgrade to the latest firmware. (There was also the case where Google change their APIs and broke the map on the 17" screen and voice recognition that required upgrading to newer firmware to resolve.) So staying on 7.1 isn't a long-term solution.

As far as rolling back, my understanding is that Tesla doesn't support rolling back, and in fact if you have upgraded to one of the newer versions that implement code-signing I don't think it is even possible to revert to an old version.
 
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It isn't a warranty violation to stay on 7.1, but we have at least one person on the forum that is currently staying on 7.1 because of HVAC changes. He is having Bluetooth and Slacker issues and Tesla has essentially said we can't help you with those issues until you upgrade to the latest firmware. (There was also the case where Google change their APIs and broke the map on the 17" screen and voice recognition that required upgrading to newer firmware to resolve.) So staying on 7.1 isn't a long-term solution.

As far as rolling back, my understanding is that Tesla doesn't support rolling back, and in fact if you have upgraded to one of the newer versions that implement code-signing I don't think it is even possible to revert to an old version.
Thanks @MP3Mike for the information I requested.

Early on when I was looking into Tesla - there were so many stories about Tesla improving their cars while you slept, through their updates. How cool is that I thought. After purchasing my car I was always eager to see what goodies were coming my way. Would they provide a surprise performance increase to rectify the 10.9 issue? I was certain that was coming.
Now I am never going to upgrade UNTIL someone provides a heads up as to the impact. Wish I could do that myself? Like Tesla should provide a "take it for a spin" period. Where the update doesn't get written to non volatile storage. You can try it out... then select execute update.

I am still quite shocked - that Tesla came up with this as a solution for counterGate? Didn't anyone in the room speak up with the obvious question "What the hell are we doing?" these TMC guys are NOT stupid. They are definitely going to notice you now reduced power during the everyday, high percentage use model. And you thought they were pissed off earlier? When only a couple people had their power reduced????

Who is making these bonehead decisions?

I can't believe I actually thanked Jon, for Tesla agreeing to remove the counterGate issue. I guess we need to be more specific when we request something?
 
To summarize, we are observing that now launch mode and max battery power mode is required to achieve the highest power output, whereas before only max battery power mode was required. @JonMc are we correct in our observations that this change was intentionally made?
My vehicle is seeing less power 515kw with max power (ludicrous plus) which is less than just the standard ludicrous which is 530-540kw. Like I stated before, I used to see 580kw in ludicrous plus but now that has dropped to 515kw. Therefore, I have better acceleration w/o "yes, bring it on"!
 
Walta,

There is absolutely no way you can phrase your request to eliminate BS if BS is the other side's goal. The other side will always posses all the information thus they can craft a response that passes the go to jail for lying test while still accomplishing all the desired deception.

The type of interaction you are describing (or hoping for) requires honest brokers on both sides of the conversation. This is why I am so bummed. Tesla purposefully wants to be this way even when called on the practices.