Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[JRP3]

Launch control, an electronic aid to assist drivers in accelerating from a standstill, has been known to sometimes have a negative effect on vehicles if used too often. It can result in premature wear of components due to the high stress placed on them. Some performance car manufacturers either limit the power after a predetermined number of launches, or they void the warranty after a certain limit.

Earlier this year, Tesla introduced its own version of launch control, ‘Launch Mode’, for the performance versions of its vehicles – a first in a production electric car. Now we learn that Tesla is limiting its own launch mode in a similar way, which is something owners were widely unaware of, and some may find their power output permanently limited due to the situation.

Not sure what your point was in copying and pasting part of a 2 month old article from Electrek.

 

[Thinkfn]

So 490 = 465 to Tesla? Did they share the data they gathered from the vehicle which supposedly shows no power difference?

What Tesla means is probably that the vehicle delivered "max expected power" under each circumstance. That is, it delivered the power it was expected to deliver. Problem being that in the first instance it was "expected" to deliver 490 and in the second, after the update, 465.

 

[Thinkfn]

T

This is similar to the wording I received. My SA stated that there is no requirement to reach max power. Where your SA stated the vehicle delivered max "expected" power. Also my SA stated that both LM and MB are enhancements to performance. Which also implies that Tesla feels they "are" providing the ludicrous performance already, excluding MB and LM.

Is the 465kw equal to around 1500 amps? Someone stated earlier that they felt Tesla only needed to provide 1500 amps to meet the requirements for ludicrous? Not counting the hours of drag strip times showing breaking into the 10's was not happening at that amperage level.

Communications with my SA have gone very quiet. As if Tesla is on firm ground here.

Main problem is that Launch mode didn't exist when the P90DL came out. So there couldn't possibly be a reason to limit power to its use without it being a bait & switch.

 

[xborg]

wow, TMC stopped sending notifications of this thread and I missed all the fun.
In short, I'm not surprised. This is the Tesla as usual, recently. Now I'm glad that I haven't upgraded to P100D.
This is such a shame.
@fiksegts I think your video is outdated now. Are you going to post an update? We need you to get Tesla's attention to be honest.

Recall that TESLA implied they would "remove the logic that referred to the counters"; presumably the counters are still present and being updated/stored.

Yes, Indeed.
Here is the note from my update:

 

[xborg]

It always gets my hackles up when people talk about getting a $10K refund on Ludicrous and suggest that that would make everything right.

Tesla valued the Ludicrous feature upgrade at $10K, but that doesn't mean the car is worth $10K less to whomever purchased it if it doesn't have Ludicrous. Some people may not have purchased the car at all without Ludicrous.

The same argument applies when people talk about refunds for various autopilot features for which a premium was paid.

Just because Tesla puts a value on some part of the car when they sell it does not mean returning that amount and eliminating the feature makes a buyer whole. I have trouble understanding how people can think that way.

I'd love a P and L refund. Since the recent 90D and P90D batteries are almost same and cost to build rear motors are similar, that should be a reasonable offer. I'd basically own a 90D, with slightly less range.

This is a breach of contract. I paid for P and L to get the promised performance. Power vs Money Paid is not linear for cars, it's exponential. It's obvious that P itself does not worth the money difference with 90D. But L adds a sweet spot.

Let me elaborate for anyone wouldn't understand about cost vs performance. I'll try to describe it using range example. Assume you'll need the highest range with optimal price. Currently, the difference between 90D and 100D is only £3000. 90D is a bad deal, everyone should pick 100D. That's clear. But if you buy 100D, and in 3 months Tesla says: "Sorry, we realised that your battery has heating problems, so we are dropping your range by %5. or, we can downgrade your car to 90D and refund your £3000. Or you can pay £20.000 and upgrade to 110D"
Is this a good deal? No! Because you made up your mind and bought the car you thought best for you.

Tesla should eat the warranty cost, or offer reasonable upgrade/downgrade options.
I'm in touch with them, I'll send my updates here.

 

[Walta]

With Tesla dealing cards in Vegas, can you imagine how much money they would make? Half way through the hand they would declare all aces are now 5's. And players are just suppose to say oh bummer.

The car I was sold doesn't even exist. The owners manual I have doesn't match what I paid for. I never even knew about launch mode, and now that is the only mode for max power.

I talked with my SA and again he stated the engineers told him that max power is not coupled to launch mode. So I sent him my power tool logs, prior to the reduction showing 508kw, and one post reduction of 488kw. Again he said it will be a while to get back to me. So I will wait.

 

[FlatSix911]

The party is over ... Tesla’s latest update only allows performance vehicles to reach max power on ‘Launch Mode’

We spoke too soon last month when we reported that “the controversy around Tesla’s undisclosed performance restrictions is finally truly coming to an end” as the automaker was deploying a new update to seemingly remove those restrictions. As it turns out, the update was interpreted poorly by most people, myself included. Since the latest update, every owner of a Tesla performance car (Model S/X P85D, P90D, P100D) can access the full power of their vehicle, but they have to use ‘Launch Mode’. It’s now the only way to reach max power.

The first problem arose when some owners complained that they were losing power when pushing their vehicles on ‘Ludicrous mode’ and/or frequently using ‘Launch Mode’, which is an electronic aid to assist drivers in accelerating from a standstill. We later learned that the reason was that Tesla was limiting the power output after frequent use of those features.

A spokesperson sent us the following statement: “The solution introduced with the latest firmware update, which enables maximum power output anytime both Launch Mode and Max Battery Power Mode are engaged, is the best way to provide our customers with peak performance on-demand while at the same time protecting the powertrain from wear. We are also continuing to proactively monitor the condition of the powertrain to let our customers know if service becomes necessary.”

In other words, it limits when they can reach full power, but it doesn’t disable full power altogether as the previous software restrictions did. A Model S P90D owner sent us the results of launches without ‘Launch Mode’ before and after the update:

 

[stopcrazypp]

Main problem is that Launch mode didn't exist when the P90DL came out. So there couldn't possibly be a reason to limit power to its use without it being a bait & switch.

I should remind also that when the P90D came out it wasn't capable of more than 1500A either (because of v1 batteries), and right now the limit set appears to be 1500A, so that appears consistent.

Don't have time to dig back to see if P90D v1 packs are affected by this limit differently though.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Silverlining: At least Electrek reported this time.

Tesla’s latest update only allows performance vehicles to reach max power on ‘Launch Mode’

So, basically Tesla went from limiting select P90DLs to limiting all Performance models.

Nice.

 

[Sluggabed]

I hope Tesla sees this thread (& numerous articles) because they just made my decision very easy and saved myself a bucket of money. I'll stick with my D. They had their chance to redeem themselves and blew it into a bigger fiasco (all P models !!!) ....

 

[xborg]

Silverlining: At least Electrek reported this time.

Tesla’s latest update only allows performance vehicles to reach max power on ‘Launch Mode’

So, basically Tesla went from limiting select P90DLs to limiting all Performance models.

Nice.

Yeah, this is exactly what happened. Elektrek's headline should have been "Tesla now limits power on all P cars.(Except launch mode noone uses)"

This whole thing reminded me a story from my childhood. True story, but look for metaphors.
Our teacher was announcing exam results and everyone had a chance to check their exam paper. She was a really nice teacher, everyone was liking her, but it was a bit hard to get good grades from her. You had to work really hard. In the exam, she wouldn't accept alternative answers like other teachers, she was always insisting getting exact answers the way the taught.
A friend of mine noticed that he got 0 point for a question that he thought he was right and noticed that his best friend got 10 for that question with a very same answer. He took her friend to the teacher and insisted that he should've got 10 points too. The teacher checked and decided to mark his friend 0 points as well.

So the poor guy who took 10 in first place now got 10 points less. Who should he be angry to? To the teacher who misinterpreted the answer in first place or his friend?

@Tech_Guy , you are responsible for all of this. Our teacher was a lovely women. ( expect she is really young and have no proper experience. )

just kidding.

 

[trayloader]

On Januar 18, I wrote the below applaud which is now obsolete due to rhetorical "semantics" by the President of Global Sales & Service at Tesla.
Sad.

̶T̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶h̶̶y̶̶ ̶̶V̶̶o̶̶l̶̶k̶̶s̶̶w̶̶a̶̶g̶̶e̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶g̶̶o̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶u̶̶n̶̶d̶̶e̶̶r̶̶.̶̶
̶̶T̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶m̶̶a̶̶t̶̶u̶̶r̶̶e̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶a̶̶s̶̶t̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶p̶̶r̶̶o̶̶b̶̶l̶̶e̶̶m̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶l̶̶v̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶P̶̶R̶̶.̶̶
̶̶F̶̶r̶̶o̶̶m̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶p̶̶.̶̶
̶̶
̶̶B̶̶r̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶h̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶!̶

 

[n2mb_racing]

What is driving me nuts now is I can't get launch mode to engage reliably. I'm trying to use launch mode as much as possible now, and the damn thing is really hard to get into. It's crazy because I make launch control modules for a living and I'm having a hard time with it! In my other car, it is easy. Just floor the clutch, floor the gas and then release the clutch. I'm not sure why I only get it about 1 in 10 times. Instead I get the error message about both pedals being pressed... I guess this morning I didn't get it because it is disabled below 37 degrees and it was 25 out.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I made a new thread to summarize the data we have collected on the power loss so far. Can you please post your data there so that we have it all in one spot?

Power limit with latest software update: Data

 

[bhzmark]

Elektrek's headline should have been "Tesla now limits power on all P cars.(Except launch mode noone uses)"

Or to further illustrate the Framing effect (psychology) - Wikipedia you are alluding to in your post, they could have written the headline "Tesla makes extra power available for P Ludicrous cars in launch mode."

 

[trayloader]

Or with Average Joes words: they now hinder maximum flooring as much as they can to achieve the 8 years warranty and minimize repair costs.
The current "counter" is simple.
They count the "mommy" button and present You the bill in eight years-lol

 

[n2mb_racing]

Or to further illustrate the Framing effect (psychology) - Wikipedia you are alluding to in your post, they could have written the headline "Tesla makes extra power available for P Ludicrous cars in launch mode."

Except the power was available at all times when I purchased it.... They've now taken it away.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

On Januar 18, I wrote the below applaud which is now obsolete due to rhetorical "semantics" by the President of Global Sales & Service at Tesla.
Sad.

̶T̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶h̶̶y̶̶ ̶̶V̶̶o̶̶l̶̶k̶̶s̶̶w̶̶a̶̶g̶̶e̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶g̶̶o̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶u̶̶n̶̶d̶̶e̶̶r̶̶.̶̶
̶̶T̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶m̶̶a̶̶t̶̶u̶̶r̶̶e̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶a̶̶s̶̶t̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶p̶̶r̶̶o̶̶b̶̶l̶̶e̶̶m̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶l̶̶v̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶ ̶̶P̶̶R̶̶.̶̶
̶̶F̶̶r̶̶o̶̶m̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶o̶̶p̶̶.̶̶
̶̶
̶̶B̶̶r̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶h̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶̶!̶

I appreciate the candor.

It is not always easy to look back and admit mistakes. Then, who could blame you or any of us, Tesla was very explicit in their promise. But again we were let down... Fool me once, I guess.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Fool me once, I guess.

Exactly. I feel stupid for installing the software upgrade! I would have been fine if I kept the old software.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Silverlining: At least Electrek reported this time.

Tesla’s latest update only allows performance vehicles to reach max power on ‘Launch Mode’

So, basically Tesla went from limiting select P90DLs to limiting all Performance models.

Nice.

Not sure that is accurate. I'm pretty sure the counter affected all DL models, including the 85s and 100s. As far as I can tell, they basically changed the operation mode to a universal 1500A limit until you use launch mode.