Jerjozwik, why is the battery being replaced? Were you losing range or was it something else?
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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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- Tesla Inc.
What would you suggest?
In my case, I just passed 7 months with the car and have had two different changes to the car in the last 3 months. This is not what they represented to me and I just got the car. In my opinion, this is only fair since Tesla misrepresented what I was buying. I am asking to have it removed from my car, so with the little time I have had it, I think a full refund is in order.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I've also thought about a refund for the $10k ludicrous option. I leased the car, so it would drop my payments quite a bit. But, I'm not sure if that would really make me happy. I would prefer to have the performance I had when I first received the car. And I would like to have some peace of mind knowing that I can lease a P100D after my current lease is up without having to worry about the car being downgraded after delivery...
jerjozwik
Active Member
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
If you consider this fair, that's fine--for you.
I was suggesting that some people would need more than simply a refund on the feature in question for things to be made right.
I asked this 100+ pages ago and people said it doesn't matter... I think it does: How many ludicrous cars have been sold? What is the dollar value of Tesla's exposure?
Gut instinct is the overall cost should be minor compared to the revenue of 400,000 cars in the next 18 month, but I have no idea.
Gut instinct is the overall cost should be minor compared to the revenue of 400,000 cars in the next 18 month, but I have no idea.
Walta
Member
Based on my experiences owning my first Tesla... I would never again buy the first release of any of their cars. Since Tesla does not correct design flaws, and instead tries to sweep the problem under the rug? Look at the history of the P90DL. Started out you were buying a car capable of 10.9 in the quarter mile. All you needed was to slide from sport mode to ludicrous mode.
Problem is - no one could do the 10.9. Enter MB. Still no luck. LM. Still no luck. V2 battery. Still no luck. V3 battery. Bingo!
Finally a true P90DL! Then comes counterGate and counterGate Sequal which takes the true P90DL away.
Why would anyone ever buy Tesla's first offering again? They should be providing the current P90DL owners with new hardware that provides the performance they advertised. As advertised. Not requiring all these steps to reach max power.
If you bought the 2015 version of the P90DL - bummer. If you waited and got the V3 battery - much better, but still not quite there.
Then there is the issue with software updates - changing the cars performance in a negative way. Who saw that coming? My wife was like " I thought the updates were to improve the car?" . Geee... me too.
So even if right now - Tesla is producing the car to spec. And owners verify it does perform to spec? You would be forced to refuse all software updates so you could be sure to keep it that way. Tesla isn't producing release notes explaining the details of their changes. So we are all left to TMC owners to test it out. I want control over the car I purchased. What if Tesla were to implement a software controlled battery power degradation? How would we know? We would simply think that is is normal. What if it the degradation was increased by Tesla to limit warranty claims? Not so far fetched after counterGate findings.
Tesla you must let people know what changes are being made to their cars prior to each software update. In detail.
Problem is - no one could do the 10.9. Enter MB. Still no luck. LM. Still no luck. V2 battery. Still no luck. V3 battery. Bingo!
Finally a true P90DL! Then comes counterGate and counterGate Sequal which takes the true P90DL away.
Why would anyone ever buy Tesla's first offering again? They should be providing the current P90DL owners with new hardware that provides the performance they advertised. As advertised. Not requiring all these steps to reach max power.
If you bought the 2015 version of the P90DL - bummer. If you waited and got the V3 battery - much better, but still not quite there.
Then there is the issue with software updates - changing the cars performance in a negative way. Who saw that coming? My wife was like " I thought the updates were to improve the car?" . Geee... me too.
So even if right now - Tesla is producing the car to spec. And owners verify it does perform to spec? You would be forced to refuse all software updates so you could be sure to keep it that way. Tesla isn't producing release notes explaining the details of their changes. So we are all left to TMC owners to test it out. I want control over the car I purchased. What if Tesla were to implement a software controlled battery power degradation? How would we know? We would simply think that is is normal. What if it the degradation was increased by Tesla to limit warranty claims? Not so far fetched after counterGate findings.
Tesla you must let people know what changes are being made to their cars prior to each software update. In detail.
No competition. And despite the flaws, their first offerings are still the best option on the market -- if you want an EV that can even consider using the label "Performance" and isn't in quantities of like 5 globally.
Walta
Member
Your point is totally valid. They really are amazing cars. And without many, if any competition in the EV market for that price point and performance.
So that being said - why then over promise and under deliver? Tesla has the product to sell lots of cars. Just deliver a reliable car, that is spec'd to perform admirably, and can easily meet the spec. Doesn't have to compete with super cars. Maybe with the P100DL they are spec'ing the car to meet the spec's without having to do the P90DL dance? Does anyone know if the 100's are meeting spec? Is the P100DL expected to meet the performance spec's, just from setting ludicrous ON? I am talking about the spec'd performance numbers. Not the easter egg enhancement. Did Tesla deliver the expected car to the P100DL owners ( range and performance)? I hope so - maybe things will be better going forward.
The P90DL owners have gotten treated rather poorly.
For current P85D owners to upgrade to ludicrous mode - it would cost $5K.
For new P90D owners to upgrade to ludicrous mode it was $10K.
When they rolled out the P100DL -
For current P90DL owners to upgrade to P100DL it would cost $20K
For new P90DL owners to upgrade to P100DL it would cost $10K.
Why is Tesla dumping on the P90DL owners? Did one of you current P90DL owners tweet negatively about Elon? I personally don't remember any 6AM Saturday tweets targeting Elon....
The quarter mile times (and 0-60 times) that Tesla publishes on their website should be based on the current widely released firmware version and without any tricks that harm the battery lifespan. So basically:
1. recommended daily charge level (roughly 90% SOC)
2. no Max Battery
3. no Launch Mode
If the magazines want to test those features to see how much improvement they bring, well fine, that's out of Tesla's control. But the *official* communications should be based on the conditions above. The numbers will be damn impressive, and achievable, and the car will sell just fine. The car is amazing as-is, there's no need for Tesla to be stretching the truth.
It was a mistake to advertise the 10.9 time for the P90DL, but what's done is done. The cars *need* to perform at the level they were advertised. Tesla should roll back all the countergate nonsense and just eat the warranty costs. Besides, those cars are going to be a goldmine (to the definitely for-profit Service Centers) once they're out of warranty, and Tesla will more than make up for any warranty money spent once those cars start breaking out of warranty.
1. recommended daily charge level (roughly 90% SOC)
2. no Max Battery
3. no Launch Mode
If the magazines want to test those features to see how much improvement they bring, well fine, that's out of Tesla's control. But the *official* communications should be based on the conditions above. The numbers will be damn impressive, and achievable, and the car will sell just fine. The car is amazing as-is, there's no need for Tesla to be stretching the truth.
It was a mistake to advertise the 10.9 time for the P90DL, but what's done is done. The cars *need* to perform at the level they were advertised. Tesla should roll back all the countergate nonsense and just eat the warranty costs. Besides, those cars are going to be a goldmine (to the definitely for-profit Service Centers) once they're out of warranty, and Tesla will more than make up for any warranty money spent once those cars start breaking out of warranty.
Of course not. Just like getting your failed iPhone replaced doesn't start the warranty over.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
ahurst,
Please take this comment in the spirit in which is intended (good with big smile).
I'm not sure what Jon would/could do or say if he showed back up.
Yep, I told you we were giving you back what you paid for (at least the V3 and P100 people who got 1600+ amps) and I did exactly what I said. And yep, I did not give it back to you in a way that you could use it on a daily basis as you previously had. So sorry. Only going to do part of what should be right and I'll leave you to parse the words to figure out what I did.
Jon,
If you are reading this, your performance customers may be dumb but I'm reasonably sure we (I) am not stupid.
This is not a matter of "you can not make everyone happy"; its a matter of you not having a healthy relationship with the truth. 691 hp is just that. When you finally get around to delivering it to some of your customers, it is normally the ethical thing to do to let them keep it.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
Just a minor point, but unless I am mistaken there was a date by which P85D owners had to purchase the upgrade, it was a long time ago, and I have not heard or read that Tesla extended the offer beyond that date.
Seems to be very much still available here ...
Tesla — LUDICROUS MODE ONLY (P85D) - PRE ORDER DEPOSIT
... at least I'm confident Tesla would take my $500 deposit. And I don't see why they wouldn't do the upgrade to get their fingers on the rest of the $5k if I were dumb/naive/ignorant enough to request it. I do doubt very much they would allow me to stay on my beloved v7.1 firmware however ...
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