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Payment Method now on Tesla's My Tesla Page [Since Removed]
- Thread starter ElectricPi
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- Model 3 Supercharging
Garlan Garner
Banned
@ecarfan - You obviously didn't read my previous post. Let me make it easy for you guys to see my previous post - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1713828/ . If you aren't going to read my posts maybe you shouldn't respond to them.
@ecarfan - the rest of this is just in general.
Geeesh.
This world has turned to so much hatred and pessimistic tendencies. From this forum to the Presidential race....I now understand why the word is in the state that its in.
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Garlan Garner
Banned
Did you read my previous post? Obviously not. Here it is.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1713828/
ccutrer
Active Member
@Garlan Garner I'm not sure why you're being so antagonistic. To put the latter half of this thread in a few words, you're saying "why do people care about an unattended car at a supercharger?" Response: "because it's discourteous and could cause bottlenecks". Retort: "you guys are jerks that should mind your own business. I charge every day at a convenient supercharger, and you want to crucify me." In other words, your car is NOT unattended - you're not in it, but you're actually watching it. And from the sound of it, it's actively charging for a good chunk of that time, with maybe half an hour of being idle (depending on how fast you eat, and how much you chew the cud with Wendy and the cook). I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. I certainly wouldn't.
Now let me interject my own experience. On my first Tesla road trip, I pulled in to the Twin Falls, ID supercharger, to find one other car there - a Model S with Idaho plates. I charged from 15% to 90+%, and left. The Model S was still there. I had only two thoughts - "hmm, I wonder if that's a local. Doesn't bother me if he's parked here all day, cause this place is mostly deserted", and "hmm, he's parked in the only pull-in stall. That's kind of unthoughtful of him. A Model X coming through pulling a trailer would have to unhitch, when if this guy would have used a different stall, he could have saved several minutes by using the pull in stall without unhooking. I wonder if the owner of the Model S has even seen an X; they're still pretty rare in Utah and Idaho, let alone one pulling a trailer. He probably hasn't even considered the possibility". When I returned from the road trip, the same Model S was parked in the same stall. My initial thought was "no way does this guy's travel plans exactly coincide with mine. He must work nearby, cause there's no way it can be more convenient to seek out the supercharger and leave your car all day otherwise". Except when I left this time, it was gone. Much to my surprise, when I got to the next supercharger (Tremonton, UT), the car was there. And gone before I left. Huh. So, I have no idea who this guy was, or why it seemed like he was sitting at the supercharger so long. I hold no malice, but I'm curious about what the situation really was.
As for becoming annoyed with ICE cars sitting at gas station pumps - totally, yes, I do. I don't believe people do it in malice, and yes, there are likely times that it's an emergent situation (a sick guy stuck in the bathroom, for example). But really, you're not supposed to leave the vehicle unattended while fueling, so is it really that much of an inconvenience to someone to pull out of the pump and actually park when going in to the store afterwards? I think what really bothers me is that it is the opposite of myself - I try to be aware of my own situation, and not inconvenience others when possible. For example, it's a common practice to not have diesel at all pumps. If I pull into a station and there are plenty of pumps free, I pay attention and choose one that doesn't have diesel - so that if a diesel truck pulls in, he's not waiting on me. I've even gone so far as one time I pulled in to a full station, and ended up in line for a pump that had diesel. It was my turn, and I had gotten out to swipe my card. At about the same time, a diesel truck pulled up, and a neighboring unleaded only pump freed up. I got back in my car, and switched to the regular pump, which let the diesel guy fill up at the same time. A minor inconvenience to me, but saved the other guy at least five minutes.
A similar example that annoys me to no end is visitors to my home not taking any thought to where they park. I have a two car garage, and three car driveway. My utility trailer usually sits in the third car portion, not blocking access to the garage. Anecdotally, my own family members will routinely park in front of the trailer, so that if someone needs to leave while they are there, they don't need to move. But my wife's family - not only do they usually park directly in front of the garage, they'll often park in the middle of the two car section, meaning neither car can get out of the garage (or if another visitor arrives, they must now park in the street (depending on if the spot in front of the trailer is already occupied)). Even after pointing this out, they try to improve, but sometimes they'll park kind of in front of the trailer, but still blocking part of the garage. Or on the opposite side, they'll park partway on the street, blocking the mailbox and part of the driveway, causing an inconvenience to the mailman. All because they can't be bothered to take a split second when they pull up as to where they should park in order to minimize the probability of future inconvenience to someone else.
I also get annoyed when I see non handicapped people park in handicap stalls. No, it doesn't bother me. And yes, there are likely times when it's an ailment I can't see with my eyes, or they just don't have their handicap permit with them or something. But in general, it's just someone being selfish, that think's that "usually" they're not hurting anyone else, but it still irks me because sometimes it does inconvenience others. If we finally get back to supercharging - in the low probability scenario (depending on the supercharger) of getting ICEd by another Tesla, it's not just a few minute inconvenience. It could be hours that someone can't charge, potentially affecting travel plans all day. So yeah, if you're hanging out at an empty supercharger for hours, I likely won't get upset at that one instance, but I do take issue with an attitude of "mind your own business, it's not bothering anyone [that I know of]".
Now let me interject my own experience. On my first Tesla road trip, I pulled in to the Twin Falls, ID supercharger, to find one other car there - a Model S with Idaho plates. I charged from 15% to 90+%, and left. The Model S was still there. I had only two thoughts - "hmm, I wonder if that's a local. Doesn't bother me if he's parked here all day, cause this place is mostly deserted", and "hmm, he's parked in the only pull-in stall. That's kind of unthoughtful of him. A Model X coming through pulling a trailer would have to unhitch, when if this guy would have used a different stall, he could have saved several minutes by using the pull in stall without unhooking. I wonder if the owner of the Model S has even seen an X; they're still pretty rare in Utah and Idaho, let alone one pulling a trailer. He probably hasn't even considered the possibility". When I returned from the road trip, the same Model S was parked in the same stall. My initial thought was "no way does this guy's travel plans exactly coincide with mine. He must work nearby, cause there's no way it can be more convenient to seek out the supercharger and leave your car all day otherwise". Except when I left this time, it was gone. Much to my surprise, when I got to the next supercharger (Tremonton, UT), the car was there. And gone before I left. Huh. So, I have no idea who this guy was, or why it seemed like he was sitting at the supercharger so long. I hold no malice, but I'm curious about what the situation really was.
As for becoming annoyed with ICE cars sitting at gas station pumps - totally, yes, I do. I don't believe people do it in malice, and yes, there are likely times that it's an emergent situation (a sick guy stuck in the bathroom, for example). But really, you're not supposed to leave the vehicle unattended while fueling, so is it really that much of an inconvenience to someone to pull out of the pump and actually park when going in to the store afterwards? I think what really bothers me is that it is the opposite of myself - I try to be aware of my own situation, and not inconvenience others when possible. For example, it's a common practice to not have diesel at all pumps. If I pull into a station and there are plenty of pumps free, I pay attention and choose one that doesn't have diesel - so that if a diesel truck pulls in, he's not waiting on me. I've even gone so far as one time I pulled in to a full station, and ended up in line for a pump that had diesel. It was my turn, and I had gotten out to swipe my card. At about the same time, a diesel truck pulled up, and a neighboring unleaded only pump freed up. I got back in my car, and switched to the regular pump, which let the diesel guy fill up at the same time. A minor inconvenience to me, but saved the other guy at least five minutes.
A similar example that annoys me to no end is visitors to my home not taking any thought to where they park. I have a two car garage, and three car driveway. My utility trailer usually sits in the third car portion, not blocking access to the garage. Anecdotally, my own family members will routinely park in front of the trailer, so that if someone needs to leave while they are there, they don't need to move. But my wife's family - not only do they usually park directly in front of the garage, they'll often park in the middle of the two car section, meaning neither car can get out of the garage (or if another visitor arrives, they must now park in the street (depending on if the spot in front of the trailer is already occupied)). Even after pointing this out, they try to improve, but sometimes they'll park kind of in front of the trailer, but still blocking part of the garage. Or on the opposite side, they'll park partway on the street, blocking the mailbox and part of the driveway, causing an inconvenience to the mailman. All because they can't be bothered to take a split second when they pull up as to where they should park in order to minimize the probability of future inconvenience to someone else.
I also get annoyed when I see non handicapped people park in handicap stalls. No, it doesn't bother me. And yes, there are likely times when it's an ailment I can't see with my eyes, or they just don't have their handicap permit with them or something. But in general, it's just someone being selfish, that think's that "usually" they're not hurting anyone else, but it still irks me because sometimes it does inconvenience others. If we finally get back to supercharging - in the low probability scenario (depending on the supercharger) of getting ICEd by another Tesla, it's not just a few minute inconvenience. It could be hours that someone can't charge, potentially affecting travel plans all day. So yeah, if you're hanging out at an empty supercharger for hours, I likely won't get upset at that one instance, but I do take issue with an attitude of "mind your own business, it's not bothering anyone [that I know of]".
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
He's responding directly to the hypothetical you raised, not to your specific daily charging situation. I don't think people are directing things personally to you, but rather the position you advocate. You seem be taking a position that it is okay for someone to park a car at a gas pump for hours (and analogously the same would be fine at a charging station). So people have piled onto you for the position (not necessarily your personal behavior).
It's not all black and white either, but various degrees that people may find acceptable/unacceptable ("attended" below has a stricter definition of being in the vehicle or next to it, such that someone can walk up to and tell one to move their vehicle directly):
1) Attended and charging
2) Contact number posted unattended / within visual range and charging
3) Completely unattended and charging
4) Attended, plugged, and not charging
5) Attended, unplugged, and not charging
6) Contact number posted unattended / within visual range, plugged, and not charging
7) Contact number posted unattended / within visual range, unplugged, and not charging
8) Completely unattended, plugged, and not charging
9) Completely unattended, unplugged, and not charging
10) ICE car parking at a charging spot
Garlan Garner
Banned
Thanks for your honest response. I agree with you. Thanks for taking all that time to respond.
The only problem I believe that my situation causes is that people don't know that I'm sitting in a restaurant watching my car. Before I posted that - most people here thought I was a jerk and many may still feel that way....and that's ok. I would hope that we might give folks the benefit of the doubt before crucifying them. Whether they are at an ICE Pump or a SC. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt first before vilifying them.
I'm not saying this to you ccuter because from the tenor of your response you appear to be an extremely fair person. There needs to be more people out there that think and reason as you do.
Thank you again.
ProphetM
Member
I absolutely agree and that was my point. I was not arguing in favor of leaving the car unattended. The only way to know that no one else is inconvenienced is if you stay within sight of the supercharger. And if you're right there you may as well move it when it's finished anyway. It seems like that would be a very rare circumstance, to be both leaving the car plugged in long after it's finished, and also right there nearby to see it.
As someone who has only used superchargers a few times, and only on road trips, I would have been extremely frustrated if I was blocked from charging because an ICE or a Tesla was parked and not charging. Why? Because I've got two small kids and waiting at a supercharger for an unknown amount of extra time has the potential to be absolutely miserable.
I would hope that most locals would be considerate, especially if they saw someone clearly on a road trip trying to charge. Much the same way that I get out of the way for local Leaf owners at public L2 charging spots. Rarely do I actually need the extra charge, it's just a bonus for me--but often times they actually need a bit of charge to get where they are going. Unfortunately there will always be people who don't care and only think about themselves, but I imagine they are the minority.
Adding a pay feature for future owners certainly has the potential to reduce the number of locals who use Superchargers just because they can, not because they need it.
I would hope that most locals would be considerate, especially if they saw someone clearly on a road trip trying to charge. Much the same way that I get out of the way for local Leaf owners at public L2 charging spots. Rarely do I actually need the extra charge, it's just a bonus for me--but often times they actually need a bit of charge to get where they are going. Unfortunately there will always be people who don't care and only think about themselves, but I imagine they are the minority.
Adding a pay feature for future owners certainly has the potential to reduce the number of locals who use Superchargers just because they can, not because they need it.
Actually my point was that... the only way to ensure no one else is inconvenienced is by unplugging as soon as it is charged. IMO the fact whether or not someone had to wait or will have to wait is irrelevant. Whether you were there or not to witness first hand whether it inconvenienced someone else is even more irrelevant. We stop at red lights irrespective of whether there are other vehicles on the road or not - that is the only way to guarantee safety. In this case its a shared resource so unplug it and move away as soon as possible, that's the only way to guarantee fairness. I am told the Tesla mobile app issues a notification once it is charged.
Seems like some people need a reason to be courteous to others.
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On another note... I wonder how Tesla will handle taxis in the future. Currently there aren't that many Tesla taxis due to their high cost, but I imagine the Model 3 will attract quite a few more. It definitely could be a problem if a fleet of 200 taxis were constantly flooding all the local superchargers. Maybe charge a different rate for cars registered for business purposes?
Bimbels
GoldMember
Tesla's goal is to move us towards total electrification of automobiles. That includes livery and taxis. I would hope they don't "punish" taxi and livery drivers because they use their car as a business. Just as ICE taxi/livery drivers should not pay more for gasoline than anyone else. The solution is to have charging capable of accommodating everyone with the least amount of inconvenience possible.
As they now clearly is moving towards some type of "pay for use" there is no reason to do anything special for Taxi/delivery/Uber++ users. In they current "free for life" scheme they could (should?) have had some type of exception/special rules for business use.
Garlan Garner
Banned
That's not the ONLY way.
One way is to watch with your eyes and make sure you aren't blocking any stalls. You can be in the car when this happens. You can be standing right outside the door of the car. Or you can be in a restaurant - watching the SC's.....Or you can use an APP to be remotely alerted by the car itself that charging is done.
T3slaTulips
Member
It's only a screwup if you didn't want anyone to see it. It's possible that they wanted to generate feedback or attention with it without having to commit to it. I think they're aware that people are watching the code.
Adrian
Title(D)
75 kWh upgrade now includes the words "includes Unlimited supercharging."
Ulmo
Active Member
I think that's a good thing for a buyer. Screenshot that before and when hitting the Buy button and buying it, and then you know you have Unlimited Supercharging.
75 kWh upgrade now includes the words "includes Unlimited supercharging."
Of course, your real point is the reason you posted: that there is now increased legal purchase structure for inserting possibilities of no longer having "Unlimited Supercharging", here and there. Good catch. I think that's also a good thing: I'm already frequently on record as stating that Tesla ought to be ready for not having unlimited SuperCharging with the mass of Model 3 buyers, because it may turn out that a per-use model for SC's (SuperChargers) is a more equitable format in the future (for instance, less civil Tesla car owners hitting a critical mass). Having said that, I fully support Tesla's current and hopefully future budget of growing the SuperCharger network in relation to how many cars they've put on the road (currently, a portion of every purchase goes into a pool to build more SC's and continually triggers a proportional buildout pace, and therefore, the SC buildout keeps pace with the car purchases, regardless of any other activities going on, which I consider a good thing, until and only if it turns out there's too much SuperCharger capacity somehow, and only then to adjust that).
Not new. It usually shows up when you place an order. It's possible they have an error or are making changes because I'm seeing it on my 3 reservation now as well. Previously, I think it was only shown on my S order.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
From all I've heard, and I could be wrong....in states where Tesla is allowed to perform titling and registration for you prior to delivery, this is where you would upload relevant documents.
It's also where you would go to post proof of insurance before taking delivery.
Yes. I've had that section visible since placing my Model S order. I do see it in my Model 3 reservation page now as well but I don't know how long it's been shown there.
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