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Pennsylvania wants to impose EV Tax

lynnpt2001

Cookie Monster MX & M3
Sep 9, 2015
511
584
Greencastle PA
Pennsylvania state legislators want to slap electric vehicle owners with a $250 annual tax. The bill was introduced by state Representative Mike Carroll, who represents an area just south of Scranton (contact form here), and is the ranking Democrat on the Pennsylvania House’s Transportation Committee. The bill has bipartisan support, and both chambers of the legislature are controlled by state Republicans.

Write to them now....
 
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TheTalkingMule

Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Oct 20, 2012
7,593
32,002
Philadelphia, PA
Well they answered their phone so that's nice. Asked for a reason why and the guy had no answer. Hilarious.

PA as we know is a fracking state with more fossil lobbyists than you can shake a pitchfork at, so this isn't surprising.

Give them a call.
 

lynnpt2001

Cookie Monster MX & M3
Sep 9, 2015
511
584
Greencastle PA
Don't mind paying taxes. But the roads in pa are sh$t. Money has to be going elsewhere.... they built the turnpike and were going to stop collecting tolls when it was paid for.... how many years ago was that? POLITICAL LIES
 

fmm

Member
May 19, 2015
92
114
Philadelphia, PA
>>> It's still cheaper than paying the state fuel tax based on average mileage.


but is it less expensive than the combo of taxes on electricity production and delivery utilized by the car plus this new tax versus the fuel tax in PA?
 

RFernatt

Solar/EV Owner/Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
645
3,402
Eastern Panhandle, West Virginia
WV has a $200 annual EV registration fee which is $150 more than an ICE, but even at that, on average, it's cheaper than state fuel taxes not to mention federal fuel taxes. I certainly don't want to give anyone the argument that EV owners don't pay their share of road taxes while everyone else has to shoulder the burden. Lots of things we can fight, but I don't see this as one of those as long as EVs aren't unfairly assessed on road taxes.
 

ajdelange

Active Member
Dec 10, 2018
1,077
638
Virginia/Quebec
Even though I never met a tax I didn't hate I have to admit that we do use the roads just as any other vehicle does and we don't pay any state or federal fuel tax.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,924
8,625
Maine
Even though I never met a tax I didn't hate I have to admit that we do use the roads just as any other vehicle does and we don't pay any state or federal fuel tax.

And therefore EV drivers should pay a fixed fee, while ICEVs drivers pay a variable fee, because that will be entirely equitable.
 

electracity

Active Member
Jun 8, 2015
4,028
3,458
60606
Seems like many EV owners are fine with paying their fair share of road tax. I was fine with Illinois implementing a tax once it was reduced to a fair amount.
 

Darmie

Super Member
Supporting Member
Jan 13, 2016
2,087
1,388
Clear Lake TX.
Just never understood why the government don't see the gracious benefits in families investing in electric transportation. Let's face it, they sure preach the fact that we all need to be thinking green. I believe it wouldn't take long to dig up many ways a petro vehicle is subsidized.
Remember about Illinois attempting one of the biggest EV tax hike? Further digging found one of the top three donors to Martin Sandoval's campaign to be the Illinois automotive dealers association.
 

RFernatt

Solar/EV Owner/Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
645
3,402
Eastern Panhandle, West Virginia
It would be more fair if it were based on miles traveled per year so those who drive less aren't unfairly assessed, but if it requires a state (like WV) to stand up a whole new division of government with staff to create that methodology, administer it, measure it, audit it, etc. and it ends up costing more, then I'd rather just stick with the average.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,924
8,625
Maine
So what are your ideas on how to tax per kWh?

It's not to tax per kWh.

It's to price it per mile traveled.
Or a fixed fee.
Or a fee depending on where you live.
Or a fee depending on your vehicle axle weights.
Or a function, product or mixture of those.

I don't build roads, so I don't know how we _should_ be paying.

But we have a way of paying for road use via fuel taxation, even though, cost of road use is very obviously not directly linked to fuel consumption. A simple path is to have a system that's the same. Taxation based on fuel consumption is either an efficiency incentive, a proxy or a combination of the two..

If there's incentive efficiency you need to do the same with EVs, so you'd have fees (as in many European countries) adjusted to vehicle efficiency rating.

If it's a proxy, you pay a fee based on the factors for which fuel consumption is a proxy. The obvious factors would be weight and miles driven. By law, vehicles have a VIN and an odometer, so we _already_ have ways of obtaining a value for weight and miles driven. There could be a cost to (double-)checking odometers, but it's not a difficult, or time-consuming task and the sooner countries decide that we need easy access to the VIN and a reliable odometer reading, the sooner it will be legislated as a standard to make it even easier.

Another approach is to get a group of experts on roads to have a good, hard discussion to figure out the ideal pricing system, and then work backwards to a practical system that's as accurate and fair as reasonably possible.

Another approach is to give up, treat roads as a public good, and pay for them from general taxation.

But, politicians are politicians, and sat on their hands during 20 years of technological advances that have made it painfully obvious that the fuel tax system is fundamentally flawed and can't handle those advances, so the politicians are now wringing their hands and treating it as a revenue raising problem, rather than the pricing problem it really is. As a result, they are going for a soft option, because they think, as a Washington state politician openly stated, that EV drivers are affluent, so it doesn't matter if some of them are overcharged by several hundred dollars per year, so it doesn't matter whether a fixed fee is accurate or not.
 
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Wvapoker

Member
Oct 21, 2019
73
91
Charleston, WV
I just registered a M3 in WV. The law was suppose go into effect on July 1, 2017 but they didn’t charge me $200 to register only the tag fee. The next worker over said that effective 12/1/2019 they will start charging the fee. So I will likely pay it on renewal.

I’m not paying for the road via gas taxes so I’m honestly fine with the flat fee.
 

RFernatt

Solar/EV Owner/Enthusiast
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
645
3,402
Eastern Panhandle, West Virginia
I just registered a M3 in WV. The law was suppose go into effect on July 1, 2017 but they didn’t charge me $200 to register only the tag fee. The next worker over said that effective 12/1/2019 they will start charging the fee. So I will likely pay it on renewal.

I’m not paying for the road via gas taxes so I’m honestly fine with the flat fee.

I wasn't charged extra last December for my WV registration, but I guess I'll see if it happens this year. I thought it was $200 total, but I recently heard from someone that it would be $251.50, the $200 plus the regular ICE registration. That does sting a bit, especially on typically low mileage EVs like the Leaf. Wish it were mileage based. But, still not bad in the big picture.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,590
16,783
New Mexico
I'm fine with a road fee the moment there is a combustion fee.
And when we get around to road fees I want vehicle weight and miles to be the main factors. As in pay for use related maintenance.
 
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