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Performance -- lower power when battery not fully charged??
- Thread starter drew4392
- Start date
In order to get full power, the battery needs to be fairly warm and pretty much fully charged. Depending on your location and weather, the warm part is the bigger challenge. The power limit ‘dots’ show up only when there’s a huge power limit, but the power limit is present unless it’s been driven hard for a while and then charged, preheated for a long time, or it’s quite warm outside.
The tricky bit is it’s dynamic, presumably mostly based around the batteries ability to dump power. So it mostly has to do with temperature, then state of charge, and then to some extent the age of the battery as well. The state of charge isn’t THAT big of a factor, but temperature can be. The car is way down on power with a very cold battery, and driving normally it never warms up. In LA you might not really notice it massively, but if the battery gets well below freezing it takes at least an hour to warm it up.
If you care about the performance, charge daily, sometimes more often. It starts to get noticeable below 80ish, but it’s not so terrible until it dips below 50’s. This isn’t really an intrinsic limitation with EV’s, it’s an active design decision to save cost. The hardware is pretty much just run at the limit, so as the battery is physically more reluctant to dump power as the state of charge drops, you’re going to notice it. It’s very possible to design it so this isn’t the case, but it means making the battery beefier or the car lower power so the battery isn’t driven as hard.
The tricky bit is it’s dynamic, presumably mostly based around the batteries ability to dump power. So it mostly has to do with temperature, then state of charge, and then to some extent the age of the battery as well. The state of charge isn’t THAT big of a factor, but temperature can be. The car is way down on power with a very cold battery, and driving normally it never warms up. In LA you might not really notice it massively, but if the battery gets well below freezing it takes at least an hour to warm it up.
If you care about the performance, charge daily, sometimes more often. It starts to get noticeable below 80ish, but it’s not so terrible until it dips below 50’s. This isn’t really an intrinsic limitation with EV’s, it’s an active design decision to save cost. The hardware is pretty much just run at the limit, so as the battery is physically more reluctant to dump power as the state of charge drops, you’re going to notice it. It’s very possible to design it so this isn’t the case, but it means making the battery beefier or the car lower power so the battery isn’t driven as hard.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
How about beefier battery so we’re not beating the living snot out of it in amp draw even at near full charge?
Porsche have been for ages the most conservative manufacture when it comes to Performance Marketing. Their cars consistently outperform the claimed specs. You're probably barking up the wrong tree
Here is the last graph we did of different Model S: max power vs state of charge (SoC). I am overlaying contributed runlogs, mostly S75D and S100D, on top of Old Man Mike's graph of older Model S types.
Happy to add Model 3 data. You just need a few samples at different SoC by model for a given performance setting, i.e. distinctly before of after firmware increases.
You'll notice how one line is nearly horizontal, where power doesn't vary by state of charge. That is what happens if the car's max power setting is set well below the battery capability.
As mentioned in this thread, max power is not as good a measurement of how fast you car feels as is max torque, since torque governs all the initial increase in power, but power over SoC is still interesting.
You can infer from the graph Tesla's dilemma in implementing Maxwell's ultra capacitors as a buffer (besides cost and space to stuff them). In order to smooth power delivery. Tesla would need to meter the amount of power buffer available for the entire possible time of wide open throttle or else you might get a lurch where the buffer runs out and the power drops to the lower SoC battery power. It would be interesting to see an algorithm for smoothing the drop to make it less noticible. It certainly would make for an interesting track mode setting to say you are never going above x speed so use all the buffer before x. Or better yet, a GPS based smart track mode buffer that says plan on needing x buffer for these straights and receiving y buffer back in regen in these turns.
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Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
Drags times don’t lie. I’m not barking at all. I give literally zero shits about it. The facts are the porsche gets slower as the battery depleats. Just as every other electric car. Unless the “turbo s” he drove was broken. Maybe that’s it. Please watch the video before claiming I’m full of snot. I mean I am...but the data avail supports my claim that you can’t trust a German. (Also THATS a joke...if you didn’t catch it the first time).
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Dolemite
is my name
OMG. THIS IS A FAMILY-FRIENDLY FORUM!! I CRUISE TMC WITH MY 5 AND 7 YEAR OLDS!!11
Mrcarcrazy
In need of a shrinking gun to zap a plaid with.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Porsche claims that the Turbo S can do 2.6 0-60 repeatedly.
In that video, the Turbo S clocks 2.6 0-60, even at half charge.
Simple question: where is the lie?
You have the burden of proof, and all you've given is snot
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You mean this video?
he only tested it twice, not repeatedly. (and got nearer 2.7 than 2.6 FWIW)
And the non-S with much higher SoC posted some #s that showed BETTER numbers than the S (most every number above 60 mph)
Which shouldn't be possible if SoC didn't matter- thus Porsche is lying about that.
it's his prerogative to find a different video then, isn't it
which in the car world convention is a 2.6.
a tesla that runs 10.95 second in the quarter is a 10 second car, even if it is closer to 11, FWIW
as porsche-usa taycan webpage only makes claims to repeatability of 0-60 performance, what it does above 60mph is not under dispute and still no lies are yet proven
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not really. You usually round to the nearest 10th.
2.99 (as the P3D has run) is a 3, not a 2.9
Someone has seen Fast & Furious too often
Except, they are.
The lower powered version of the car, at over 90% SoC, is producing more power than the more powerful one at 50-something SoC.
That's only explainable if lower SoC means more power. The less powerful car beats the more powerful one in virtually every above 60 test including trapping roughly 3mph higher in the 1/4 mile. That's a significant power difference.
Which means "repeatedly" isn't true unless they mean "repeating it once then stopping" or something.
Lower SoC=Less power.
On a Tesla or a Porsche (or likely any EV that isn't gimped to hell in the first place)
From an article about what Porsche has actually claimed BTW-
Speaking to Motoring.com.au, Porsche Taycan's head of chassis development Ingo Albers said that "The driver will wear out before the car does."
"One of our most important development targets is repeatability. You can do it long as you like — we say more than 10 times. We found out mostly the driver is the limit, not the car."
"After doing 20 or 25 launch control starts to 200km/h, you are tired, I promise!" he added.
Spoiler: 200km/h is a lot more than 60 mph.
in motor racing parlance, it broke into the 2s, and is classed in the 2s.
car racing existed before Fast & FuriousSomeone has seen Fast & Furious too often
that's a pretty windmill but porsche didn't claim to maintain 1/4mi performance or trap speed. (though it happens to do it better than its competitors).
let's provide even more context from the source you cite
https://www.motoring.com.au/driver-not-taycan-the-weak-link-porsche-120921/
"Porsche has focused on repeatable performance in its development of the Taycan Turbo and Turbo S. The head of chassis development for the electric Porsche, Ingo Albers, told carsales: “The driver will wear out before the car does.”...Albers was referring to the ability of the Taycan Turbo and Taycan Turbo S to perform multiple full-throttle launch control starts....
In the Taycan Turbo S, Porsche claims 0-100km/h time of 2.8sec, with 0-200km/h coming up in 10.8sec"
Spoiler: The 56% charged Turbo S reached 200km/h (124.27mph) in less than 12.88 seconds. With 2 occupants, no less.
PACEMD
Active Member
In a practical sense, I don't think you will much notice the loss of power at a lower state of charge. I just a few days ago first noticed feeling less power when I was at 10% soc in my Stealth P3D. 10% soc is something I don't stretch it too very often. Generally, I'm over 50%. Even at 10% soc it still beat any other car breaking away from a stop at a light, you know, to steal the lane from slower cars. On the track, yeah, blah blah blah.........only so fast you can go in town.........I try not to drive 60+ in a 35..........not always easy......
PACEMD
Active Member
Going down the road feeling bad
Going down the road feeling bad
Going down the road feeling bad, lord god.....
Don't wanna be charged this a way
Bob Weir in his low charged Model S........
Going down the road feeling bad
Going down the road feeling bad, lord god.....
Don't wanna be charged this a way
Bob Weir in his low charged Model S........
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