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Performance Model 3 slower than AWD? Autocross results!

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#41
LionelHutz said:
Shoulder wear on the tire looks similar to what a friend had with PSS on his S4–probably just what you’re going to see from throwing a heavy car around a tight track. What other cars were running with you and how did they fare?
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The weight of the car is hard on tires for sure but more camber would definitely put more tire on the ground. I know Mountain Pass Performance makes an adjustable rear link and is working on a solution for the front (can't wait to see it!). Unfortunately both of those would move the car out of the Street class in SCCA. I just drive for fun.
I placed 8th overall: http://sdbmwcca.org/autocross/results/2019-01-12
Every car ahead of me was modified, had better tires and probably a better driver so I was very impressed with the performance.
Anyway, I'm going to stick with my dedicated autocross car unless it rains again. Plenty of camber :p
IMG_2623.jpg

@AlanSubie4Life is making noise about getting another set of wheels with RE71R's for his P3D. I must admit I'm a little bit worried that he'll beat me once he learns to drive.
 
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#42
Daniel in SD said:
The weight of the car is hard on tires for sure but more camber would definitely put more tire on the ground. I know Mountain Pass Performance makes an adjustable rear link and is working on a solution for the front (can't wait to see it!). Unfortunately both of those would move the car out of the Street class in SCCA. I just drive for fun.
I placed 8th overall: http://sdbmwcca.org/autocross/results/2019-01-12
Every car ahead of me was modified, had better tires and probably a better driver so I was very impressed with the performance.
Anyway, I'm going to stick with my dedicated autocross car unless it rains again. Plenty of camber :p
View attachment 369226
@AlanSubie4Life is making noise about getting another set of wheels with RE71R's for his P3D. I must admit I'm a little bit worried that he'll beat me once he learns to drive.
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Do you autocross in San diego?
 
#43
StealthP3D said:
Is that the cold or hot pressure?
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Yes. Hot or cold. :)

The pressure at the time of use, start of lap. Bring it up to that in the paddock at whatever ambient it is at the time. Bleed it off as it rises above that.

Chalking said 45PSI was closer to normal, so over extended use this would wear the center of the tire. But I was mostly concerned about keeping the wheel intact. I don't think I'd get roll-over like the above picture shows from too much pressure? There's only so much structural help pressure can provide, of course, but coming up short would be bad.
 
#44
Daniel in SD said:
@AlanSubie4Life is making noise about getting another set of wheels with RE71R's for his P3D. I
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I am wondering if for the Model 3 for our warmer climates the answer isn't BFG Rival S 1.5, instead. RE71R supposedly can have heat issues and I'm concerned with our weight we'll generate too much and get greasy fast once we get out of winter. Look forward to hearing from Alan what he finds with the RE71R.
 
#45
SammichLover said:
I am wondering if for the Model 3 for our warmer climates the answer isn't BFG Rival S 1.5, instead. RE71R supposedly can have heat issues and I'm concerned with our weight we'll generate too much and get greasy fast once we get out of winter. Look forward to hearing from Alan what he finds with the RE71R.
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Maybe. Those are supposed to be very close to the RE71R. I’ve found that all tires seem to have heat issues on the cobblestone surface of our stadium parking lot. That’s why I now drive a 1500lb car with 245 width tires, no heat issues!
The downside of the Rivals is that they have an asymmetric thread so they can’t be flipped when you get too much outside wear.
 
#48
AlanSubie4Life said:
Are they street legal tires? I guess I would just plan allow extra time to hit a lot of Superchargers on the way, since you’ll only be getting 200 miles or whatever out of each charge. If they’re slicks...well...maybe have a friend with a truck or SUV help you out.
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Street legal.

But nearest SC to the event is 50 miles. Total one way > 4 hrs, because of a slight detour to catch the closest SC. There's a 6kW L2 a couple blocks away that I'll be using but I'll be leaving crazy early in the morning to catch this as it is. The less I count on camped on an L2 the better. :)

I'm already down to near 45 min for a parking lot four-tire change, and getting faster. The buckling hassle is more a nuisance than anything, something I want to improve but not a must-have, because it can be done as is. On the same improvement list as a cordless impact and a second thin-wall 21mm socket to dedicate to the torque wrench.

<edit> What likely happens is I will swap tires while hooked to the L2, as long as there is enough slack in the charging cable that I'm not concerned about stress on the cable if something goes sideways during the tire change and car falls off the jack. An hour on the L2 should be right on the mark for what I'll need if go to 95% at the SC and then drive to the event on the stock Aeros. It'll be like a racing pit change....in very slow motion. :D

P.S. I'm going to change at home for the track day I hope to hit Friday, because it's not as much an overall drive and there's a closer SC there.
 
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#49
SammichLover said:
I am wondering if for the Model 3 for our warmer climates the answer isn't BFG Rival S 1.5, instead. RE71R supposedly can have heat issues and I'm concerned with our weight we'll generate too much and get greasy fast once we get out of winter. Look forward to hearing from Alan what he finds with the RE71R.
Click to expand...
Re71Rs are fine in a 5k lb model s for at least 3 laps of autocross, I’ve done several 5 lap enduros and they seem to hold up for the entire race pretty well.
 
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#51
AlanSubie4Life said:
3 laps? Even for 5000 pounds that is less than I would hope for!
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Actually the tires are pretty much fine for all of it but I get some serious limits on power. I am talking about 5 laps not stop ~ 4+ minutes auto X. I think they feel really predictable even when they do heat up a bit. I had RE11s on this course and they got a bit slippery by the end.
On my last set of 20" 255 RE71R's I did 54 miles of autocross - 68 runs + 4435 mi of local + a few single supercharge road trip.
Up here we do 7 or 8 runs each day during our regular auto crosses on Saturday and Sunday + fun runs usually on Saturday.

Anyone looking for a super fun event/course - check out the SSCC Enduro (Southern OR...not too far from So cal ;))
some vids/ info etc in my sig link
 
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#52
SammichLover said:
I'm already down to near 45 min for a parking lot four-tire change, and getting faster. The buckling hassle is more a nuisance than anything, something I want to improve but not a must-have, because it can be done as is. On the same improvement list as a cordless impact and a second thin-wall 21mm socket to dedicate to the torque wrench.

<edit> What likely happens is I will swap tires while hooked to the L2, as long as there is enough slack in the charging cable that I'm not concerned about stress on the cable if something goes sideways during the tire change and car falls off the jack. An hour on the L2 should be right on the mark for what I'll need if go to 95% at the SC and then drive to the event on the stock Aeros. It'll be like a racing pit change....in very slow motion. :D
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Looking forward to hearing how this goes for you.

Would also like to see how you pack the car with everything. I'm thinking 3 wheels in the back seat, and the fourth in the trunk with the jack and other stuff. Wheels will be wrapped in wheel/tire totes, along with some sort of sheet or towel on the seats.
 
#55
SD_Engnr said:
Looking forward to hearing how this goes for you.

Would also like to see how you pack the car with everything. I'm thinking 3 wheels in the back seat, and the fourth in the trunk with the jack and other stuff. Wheels will be wrapped in wheel/tire totes, along with some sort of sheet or towel on the seats.
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I'll take photos next time out. I had four 245/40R18 wheels belted into the backseat, a 2-ton floor jack in a "retired" suitcase and placed in the bottom of the trunk well, and a couple 18Ga storage boxes in the trunk. One of the boxes had lugnuts, wrenches, other assorted hand tools (screwdrivers, pliers, etc), 12V air pump, tire gauge, glass cleaner & rags, painter's tape, wheel chocks, air pump. I think that's the list?

The other container was empty for storage of anything I pulled out of the car to track-prep, to keep it gathered up and dry in case of rain, including the drop cloth I had protected the backseat with.

Oh, and a collapsable lawn chair.

It was pretty much perfect for space. Front passenger completely empty, in case someone was coming along. Frunk was empty, in case of need for an overnight bag. Also some room in the trunk well on top of the floor jack, too, as I kept the storage well lid in. There was room for a little at the edges for more in the trunk but I'm not sure I'd get even one of the tote storage containers in there if I put a tire in it? I tried putting a tire back there on first attempt to pack and it just made a mess of it all. I might be able to get four 255/40R18 or 235/45R18 in the backseat and belted, but might take seatbelt extenders and some sort of block to lift up one side of them up a couple inches, to fit across door-to-door?

I've already picked up a second 21mm socket so I don't have to swap between the 24" breaker bar and the torque wrench, and back, for every wheel. I plan to pick up a traffic cone, and emblazon it with personal markings, to stash my air gauge in on the grid and lower the chances of it getting run over by someone pulling in/pulling out. I grabbed a spare, unused event cone last time for that purpose but easier to not have to count on one of those being handy.

An 18" cone should squeeze into spare gap in the trunk. Or maybe I'll get a set of 4 of those collapsable ones. I've never used them before, though, so I don't know how well they'd hold up?
 
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#57
Ubersoph said:
So here's the interesting question - which of the 200 tw tires has the lowest rolling resistance? Are there any that won't completely demolish range while still giving enough grip to be locally competitive?
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Not 200 tw, but i'm going to be ordering the new S007A in the next few days as my daily driver + track tire since i only have one set of wheels at the moment. It's supposed to be in between the RE71R and the Pilot Sport 4S and have a longer lifespan than the RE71R - we shall see!

I'm currently running RE71R's and have had them for the last ~4 months (265/35/R19). They are super sticky and you throw lots of gravel when going over unclean surfaces or driving after some rain. The range hit is maybe 5-10%, hard to tell exactly what is coming from the tire vs the width of wheel/tire - i'd bet its mostly from the width and aero impacts.

RE71R has been great for me with Autocross use though, just a bit aggressive for daily driving IMO.
 
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