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Performance Model 3 Snow Tires/Rims
- Thread starter gurtburns
- Start date
BrandonLive
MS LR (refresh) Blue/Black/21s/FSD
I can’t tell if this is a joke or actual stupidity.
Actual stupidity. 38 pages of discussion and not one person actually bothered to question the warning label and testvthe damn tires in freezing temperatures. No, they do not crack as claimed on the warming label. Not only that, but I only managed to find one video on YouTube of a guy who succeeded cracking the thread on the summer tires by beating them up all winter long. One guy managed to do it.
Any other ideas you’d like to take on faith, without proof?
Also, anyone had the spark of inspiration to wonder: why did Tesla ship a car with summer tires in November, just in time for snow. Who forgot to think outside the box?
Also, to be clear, I pulled the same exact trick with my previous Model S, 21” staggered summer tires + Thule K-Summit chains = snowmobile mode. Only difference is that M3P kicks even more ass
because of unmatched traction control. M3 can pull itself out of a deep snow bank with only one wheel on pavement.
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
If you're saying you need proof, then that means you don't trust Michelin's advice. That's OK if that's the way you want to do it -- they're your tires.
On the other hand, you can't disparage someone else who wants to take Michelin's word at face value. Their tires belong to them, not you.
I personally don't want to have to replace a Pilot Sport 4S tire if my sidewall cracks in freezing temperatures, even if that possibility is remote. What I know for sure is if that happens, Michelin won't warranty it, and I'm out $300.
BrandonLive
MS LR (refresh) Blue/Black/21s/FSD
Driving your car with summer performance tires in the snow or ice is idiotic and a danger to everyone else on the road.
ChicagoP3D
Member
Forgetting everything else for just a moment, isn't it inconvenient to have to put chains on? Although I don't live in CA, I'm very familiar with the route over Donner Pass (I just went over it last week in fact) and I know that Caltrans generally excepts all wheel drive vehicles with snow tires from their chains requirement (not always, but generally). Wouldn't it be much more convenient to have winter tires so you can just get in the car and go without having to think about chains? That pit stop area where you're supposed to put the chains on can get really brutal when it's crowded and snowing heavily.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Just to throw some actual data out there to show using summers in snow is... less than smart... here's objective testing of same:
Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer | Edmunds
They test summer, winter, and all-seasons in snow, wet (above freezing) and dry conditions.
(the all seasons are even MXM4s, though an older gen of em)
The all-seasons come in 2nd or 3rd in all categories, sometimes surprisingly far behind...but most relevant to this discussion is the snow conditions-
Stopping from 40 mph:
Snow tires- 156 feet
All seasons- 184 feet
Summer tires- 351 feet. More than double the distance of winters.
And stopping from 60 mph?
Snow tires- 362 feet.
All seasons -421 feet
The summer tires? they couldn't even get the car UP to 60 in the amount of room they had, but running the math on what results they did get puts the stopping distance north of 800 feet
Over on the skid pad?
Snow tires- 0.30 lateral g
All seasons- 0.28 lateral g
Summers? a pitiful 0.15g
So, I mean, they "work" for a certain definition of work. Me, I'm a little to fond of not wrecking my car to go that way though.
Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer | Edmunds
They test summer, winter, and all-seasons in snow, wet (above freezing) and dry conditions.
(the all seasons are even MXM4s, though an older gen of em)
The all-seasons come in 2nd or 3rd in all categories, sometimes surprisingly far behind...but most relevant to this discussion is the snow conditions-
Stopping from 40 mph:
Snow tires- 156 feet
All seasons- 184 feet
Summer tires- 351 feet. More than double the distance of winters.
And stopping from 60 mph?
Snow tires- 362 feet.
All seasons -421 feet
The summer tires? they couldn't even get the car UP to 60 in the amount of room they had, but running the math on what results they did get puts the stopping distance north of 800 feet
Over on the skid pad?
Snow tires- 0.30 lateral g
All seasons- 0.28 lateral g
Summers? a pitiful 0.15g
So, I mean, they "work" for a certain definition of work. Me, I'm a little to fond of not wrecking my car to go that way though.
ChicagoP3D
Member
I'm with ya'll on this — seems crazy to use summers in winter. But, he did point out that he uses chains — so for the data to be applicable to his use case, they'd have to retest the summers with chains on.
Snow traction in summer tires is awful.
The compound actually gets an almost slipperry consistence.
I want to see a test comparing summer tires in chains vs winter tires. In the thick of the superstorms this winter, I recall hopping on sheets of ice covering NV-431 near Mt. Rose to overtake locals on their winterized 4x4 trucks. Chains & spikes vs rubber.
The compound actually gets an almost slipperry consistence.
I want to see a test comparing summer tires in chains vs winter tires. In the thick of the superstorms this winter, I recall hopping on sheets of ice covering NV-431 near Mt. Rose to overtake locals on their winterized 4x4 trucks. Chains & spikes vs rubber.
I’ve explained this to someone else before.
When you go on a road trip, you do so because you enjoy driving. Otherwise you would take a train or an airplane.
When you enjoy driving, you want to arrange it so enjoy every part of it without exception. That includes fidgeting with chains. It has become the fun part. And driving in chains in snow is even more fun. Snowmobile mode.
If there was another device that could provide even more traction in snow and ice, I would consider it. Maybe tracks.
Or you know...snow tires? Generally a good pair of snow tires (especially if they are studded) provide just as much traction as chains. I'm using a snow tire with a rubber blend so it doesn't melt when I commute in san diego heat and I was able to drive through 7"+ of dense sierra cement in tahoe without a problem (though my car was caked in snow afterwards)
BrandonLive
MS LR (refresh) Blue/Black/21s/FSD
Using chains just makes it even more ridiculous. They’re a menace to roads and other vehicles, never mind how harmful they can be to your own car and your rock hard frozen summer tires.
Chains are for extreme conditions and emergencies. You don’t get to those conditions with summer tires, and you don’t get to them with the chains on.
My friend. It’s 2019. Global warming is around the corner. *sugar* is about to get as extreme as you can imagine. Get used to it.
When you go up into the mountains next time, take a look at the semi trucks. Note how they have built-in compartments where they carry chains. Note how routine it is to “chain up” for big swaths of the population. City dwellers (and I speak for myself - I live in San Francisco proper) are just out of the comfort zone when there is snow and elevation (slope) on the road. Get out of the box.
On a serious note, yes, chains are a road hazard in many cases because the design of the wheels does not currently accommodate for a safe chain attachments. The dumb “lug nut clamp” design (Thule K-Summit and Maggi copycat version that Tesla store sells now) causes the damn things to fall off all the time. I’ve had to go back to pick up a lost chain more than half a dozen times now. I’m so close to going to a machine shop and milling out a better attachment. This needs to be designed better.
And yes, I’m getting winter tires for sure next season. I’ll still carry chains and probably slap them on the moment I feel like it’s not fun enough.
Lold at “Sierra cement”! Classic! Gotta remember that.
See, you did it again though: “...able to drive ... without a problem”.
“Without a problem” is not good enough. Your car does not simply drive on tarmac “without a problem”. It rips through it like it’s on rails. That’s the feeling I’m looking for when driving in snow. Whtever that device will be called, Tesla can market it as: Model 3 Winter Performance.
For now it’s chains.
I also drove for 4 hours on snow covered 395 at 60mph. That was a fun drive, especially making the rear break loose on purpose. Felt on rails for that trip. No way you could go that fast in snow with chains
I'm hoping to get a 3P RSN from Rocklin, CA. I was rather shocked to find that a car sold in the Sierra foothills couldn't drive up 80 (major east west highway in the USA) for 1.25 hours without violating the spec of the tires. Right now, despite a 104F high *today*, truckee is below 40F as I type this.
So the search is on for a replacement for the 20" OEMs. I read all 38 pages on this thread. My goals are slight ride height improvement, MUCH better in the snow/cold, big improvement in rim protection over the 20", and ideally some help preventing rim curb issues.
This sounded pretty good:
So for the same tire height, a 19" rim is better protected than a 20" obviously. Even compared to the 19" stock 235/40R19 the 245/40 R19 has: 0.16" more sidewall (better vertical rim protection), 0.4" wider (better protection from curbs), 0.32" higher (0.16" more ground clearance).
Does that all sound right? Anyone tried similar and had any issues? Anyone compared efficiency to the 20" OEM for the 3P?
Anyone get Tesla to sub a 19" OEM rim for the model 3P 20" OEM?
So the search is on for a replacement for the 20" OEMs. I read all 38 pages on this thread. My goals are slight ride height improvement, MUCH better in the snow/cold, big improvement in rim protection over the 20", and ideally some help preventing rim curb issues.
This sounded pretty good:
So for the same tire height, a 19" rim is better protected than a 20" obviously. Even compared to the 19" stock 235/40R19 the 245/40 R19 has: 0.16" more sidewall (better vertical rim protection), 0.4" wider (better protection from curbs), 0.32" higher (0.16" more ground clearance).
Does that all sound right? Anyone tried similar and had any issues? Anyone compared efficiency to the 20" OEM for the 3P?
Anyone get Tesla to sub a 19" OEM rim for the model 3P 20" OEM?
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I believe that they would tell you that they don't fit. (In addition to them not doing that.)
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
To be honest, I wouldn't worry so much about going under 40F for a little bit as long as there is NO snow. Especially if you were driving while doing so as the the warmth of driving will definitely keep it fine. I wouldn't park it for long periods at that temperature though although I inadvertently did it on mine for a little bit.
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