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Performance not getting 310 miles promised

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So if you were at 75-80 mph with climate control on and figure you averaged 280 Wh/mi, 250 should be no problem without climate control at 60-65 mph...

I may have to modify my challenge to above 60mph (rather than above 48mph). (Meaning not possible to travel more than 290 miles at 60mph average or higher, no HVAC, level ground, AWD/P3D, PS4S - on a single charge.) But that is a more reasonable speed anyway. It is dangerous to be doing less than 65mph or so on the freeway.

As far as HVAC goes, as I said, it was basically off; the fan does not use any significant energy and it definitely was not heating. And AC was off. I could have had the fan off, no difference I am fairly sure.

I’ll have to think about the challenge parameters (got other stuff to do right now), but original point is that the PS4S make it impossible to make the range at reasonable speed. The MXMs it is possible.
 
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I may have to modify my challenge to above 60mph (rather than above 48mph). (Meaning not possible to travel more than 290 miles at 60mph average or higher, no HVAC, level ground, AWD/P3D, PS4S - on a single charge.) But that is a more reasonable speed anyway. It is dangerous to be doing less than 65mph or so on the freeway.

As far as HVAC goes, as I said, it was basically off; the fan does not use any significant energy and it definitely was not heating. And AC was off. I could have had the fan off, no difference I am fairly sure.

It's possible to measure AUX load on your vehicle if you've got access to the debug port and a way to interpret the data. I do this today on my car, and I can see that if I run HVAC, I may use up to 1kWh of power for every 6 or 7 that goes towards driving. I can run another test with the FAN only and see what it shows during my drive home today.
 
It's possible to measure AUX load on your vehicle if you've got access to the debug port and a way to interpret the data. I do this today on my car, and I can see that if I run HVAC, I may use up to 1kWh of power for every 6 or 7 that goes towards driving. I can run another test with the FAN only and see what it shows during my drive home today.

Sure, let us know. I used fan speed 3. It was 70ish broken clouds outside, AC was off, setpoint for heat was 66 or so. Should be able to correct precisely for the fan. Obviously it used a little energy...just not much. I would guess less than 300Wh, less than 200W for the fan.
 
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Sure, let us know. I used fan speed 3. It was 70ish broken clouds outside, AC was off, setpoint for heat was 66 or so. Should be able to correct precisely for the fan. Obviously it used a little energy...just not much. I would guess less than 300Wh, less than 200W for the fan.

Here are the results:

On a one hour, seven minute drive (1:07), the car registered 0.13kWh consumption for AUX power while running the fan speed on 3 (no heat, no AC). Some of that AUX energy is also used for powering other areas of the car, so my sense is that it takes very little power. On a day that I did not run the fans, my car registered 0.10kWh of energy on a similar drive, but I may have used the seat warmers for a portion of that drive. If we assume the difference is around 0.03kWh, we arrive at about 28 watts of power to run the fans. That seems fair.

Screen Shot 2019-05-15 at 7.52.51 PM.png
 
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:)I've had my P3D less than two weeks. I have a 20 mile total commute to work. I'd like to think I'll get 310 miles range on charge. Not counting on it. Regardless, charging to 90% is close to 300 miles. I'll drive it, and when the range gets low, I'll charge it to 90%, and go again. Only real issue would be mileage on a trip. Since I don't travel much, I don't see that as an issue either. Just a few extra SuperCharger visits. Chagring is almost effortless at home, and in Virginia, electricity is reasonable.
 
:)I've had my P3D less than two weeks. I have a 20 mile total commute to work. I'd like to think I'll get 310 miles range on charge. Not counting on it. Regardless, charging to 90% is close to 300 miles. I'll drive it, and when the range gets low, I'll charge it to 90%, and go again. Only real issue would be mileage on a trip. Since I don't travel much, I don't see that as an issue either. Just a few extra SuperCharger visits. Chagring is almost effortless at home, and in Virginia, electricity is reasonable.

Where you will really notice the difference is during the dead of winter. This can affect not only your Wh/Mile, but also your charging efficiency if you rely on lower power charging (like 110V / 12A / 1kW). Part of the reason is that the energy is also going into keeping the battery warm. In the worst case, I was getting 450 Wh/Mi with the heat running on full, and 50% charging efficiency. This ultimately meant I was getting 25% of the rated EPA average. The moment the weather changed, so did my efficiency.
 
I’ll have to think about the challenge parameters (got other stuff to do right now), but original point is that the PS4S make it impossible to make the range at reasonable speed. The MXMs it is possible.

Out here on the East Coast in NYC Metro many of our speed limits on highways are still 55 mph, so 65-70 mph is a “realistic” speed benchmark.

Again, please do not state things as if 250 Wh/mi is not possible at these speeds with the PS4S. It’s not only totally doable, I find it rather easy. I believe it is purely driving-style dependent. Accelerate aggressively, don’t use Regen to your best advantage and drive 70-80 mph? Nope, you won’t come close. But again, that is personal choice...not the car’s fault.

I’d rather have the best rubber on my car and “tune down” my driving style to get range than switch to the MXM’s and loose the performance of the PS4S. Again, personal choice, but why “downgrade” my P3D when I can just adjust how I drive it if I want range?
 
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Where you will really notice the difference is during the dead of winter. This can affect not only your Wh/Mile, but also your charging efficiency if you rely on lower power charging (like 110V / 12A / 1kW). Part of the reason is that the energy is also going into keeping the battery warm. In the worst case, I was getting 450 Wh/Mi with the heat running on full, and 50% charging efficiency. This ultimately meant I was getting 25% of the rated EPA average. The moment the weather changed, so did my efficiency.
:)Thanks for the information. New to Tesla, I'm not new to EVs. Three others since Jan 2013. Just more charging as required. I also have ability to charge at work with a low power EVSE, ten hours a day.
 
:)Thanks for the information. New to Tesla, I'm not new to EVs. Three others since Jan 2013. Just more charging as required. I also have ability to charge at work with a low power EVSE, ten hours a day.

FYI, I regularly can achieve 100%+ efficiency. I track this on a daily basis, and it has almost everything to do with the decisions I make - they are primarily whether or not I run HVAC, and how I handle acceleration and regen. If I went nuts, I'm sure I could also burn through an entire battery in 30 minutes on the track. I've seen charts on the forums of people @wenkan nailing their vehicle consumption for extended periods.
 
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Here are the results:

On a one hour, seven minute drive (1:07), the car registered 0.13kWh consumption for AUX power while running the fan speed on 3 (no heat, no AC). Some of that AUX energy is also used for powering other areas of the car, so my sense is that it takes very little power. On a day that I did not run the fans, my car registered 0.10kWh of energy on a similar drive, but I may have used the seat warmers for a portion of that drive. If we assume the difference is around 0.03kWh, we arrive at about 28 watts of power to run the fans. That seems fair.

View attachment 408164

Sounds about right. I sandbagged my estimate a little! I did not want to lose credibility here! But my 24-inch fan at home uses about 40W so this estimate seems about right.

Anyway, sounds like basically negligible for the purpose of this discussion.

Thanks for the info!
 
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Well, stage 2 of trip complete. It was a short uphill (700 feet) section, Anaheim to Pasadena.

65-70 degrees outside, sunny and dry. Breezy. Perhaps into wind but overall speeds were low so probably not much of a factor. Pretty heavy traffic in general. This was about 2/3 freeway and 1/3 surface streets. HVAC was set to fan only again...no AC.

Starting rated miles: 305
Ending rated miles: 262
Rated miles used: 43

Actual Miles: 36.7
Moving Time: 88 min
Average speed: 25mph
kWh: 10.02
kWh/mi: 273Wh/mi
Elevation energy: 1.1kWh (700 feet)
Adjusted for elevation: 273Wh/mi - 30Wh/mi = 243Wh/mi

So, perhaps it will be possible to get 290 miles at a reasonable 60-65mph speed....but I still don’t think so...

A8A2036C-8B8A-4FAF-ABEA-8E6F37027996.jpeg
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Forgot to start Gaia so I only have a partial capture, but includes the elevation gain. And also a grocery store stop.

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The return trip Saturday will be more interesting. Should be able to get a good feel for how many miles are possible. Will be nearly zero net elevation change.
 
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I didn’t read back all 29 pages, but thought you could use my info. I have owned a LR RWD, P3+, and a P3-. I live in the St Louis, Mo area, so you know my climate. I drove 11k miles at 243 wh/mi on my LR RWD in the spring-summer-fall, 9k miles at 326wh/mi on my P3+ in the fall-winter, and I’m currently driving a P3-. The previous owner of the P3- lived in California and got 221wh/mi for 9k miles. I’ve had the P3- for 1k miles now and get 261 wh/mi. I always keep heat at 72 in the winter and the AC at 70 for the spring-summer. My LR RWD got more miles than listed while my P3+ would almost take double off my miles for the distance driven, so a 14 mile trip to work would always take 28 miles off my range. The P3- is doing great without even trying. I pretty floor it from a stop once a day so if I tried, I’m sure I could get a lot lower on the P3-.
 
I didn’t read back all 29 pages, but thought you could use my info. I have owned a LR RWD, P3+, and a P3-. I live in the St Louis, Mo area, so you know my climate. I drove 11k miles at 243 wh/mi on my LR RWD in the spring-summer-fall, 9k miles at 326wh/mi on my P3+ in the fall-winter, and I’m currently driving a P3-. The previous owner of the P3- lived in California and got 221wh/mi for 9k miles. I’ve had the P3- for 1k miles now and get 261 wh/mi. I always keep heat at 72 in the winter and the AC at 70 for the spring-summer. My LR RWD got more miles than listed while my P3+ would almost take double off my miles for the distance driven, so a 14 mile trip to work would always take 28 miles off my range. The P3- is doing great without even trying. I pretty floor it from a stop once a day so if I tried, I’m sure I could get a lot lower on the P3-.

Thanks. Definitely gives an idea of the tire impact. It does look like about 30Wh/mi for the PS4S. Which means 250Wh/mi is about the best achievable but as soon as speeds inch above 60 or so that gets pretty tough...which means almost certainly impossible to get 290 miles of range in a practical sense. But we will see...
 
My P3D+ averaged 294 Wh/mi for the first 5500 miles.
I changed the 20” to 18” Michelin Tesla OEM tires then.
For the 2500 mikes since I have been at 277 Wh/mi.
Nothing in my driving habits or conditions has been different.
Since my prior ride was a P85DL I really haven’t even done many launches in the Model 3. Overall I am favorably impressed with the efficiency, especially when I changed wheels (TSportline) and tires.
 
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Thought about a loop of 78,15,8,805,5 which is about 74.3 miles per loop. 4 loops is 297.2 miles + a few local miles close to a charger.
4 Superchargers on (or just off) the loop, and 2 other charging opportunities with some easy diverts to cut it short.

Start at a supercharger, and aim to finish at the same place. (4 loops + some local loops). Last loop, set the destination as the end Supercharger, and car should tell me if I need to divert.

Will probably capture data on TeslaFI, and export that. Also capture route on Phone app as a backup.
Take picture of car, show got standard 20" wheels/tires, and tire pressure.
Aim to do it at a sensible speed (average approx 60mph over 5hrs). Will need to do it one evening, so the roads are clear.
Music will be on, HVAC will be on auto(but weather is mild, so probably not doing much), Lights will be on. Pick a day it's not raining.
Just need to plan the time.

This seems like a reasonable loop. If you go 60mph on the freeway, and do all freeway, I think it MIGHT be possible to get 290 miles. But it will be very, very tough! If you go 65mph (which I think you'd probably agree is the minimum reasonable speed on San Diego freeways) I think you'll have major problems. Maybe just do one loop and see how you're doing - however, it may be optimistic due to nonlinear SoC estimation - I think I detected some nonlinearity (drops faster at lower SoC) but you'd really have to do the same loop at a different SoC to see it, otherwise elevation change can confound the results. If you do one loop, maybe I'll do a loop. Track your rated miles use! Unfortunately it is raining all this week apparently! I think you should not attempt to draft to make the experiment fair (following distance greater than 5).

Be sure to take pictures of the trip meter showing rated miles, and the detailed consumption numbers on the trip meter.

I think you need to do better than about 258Wh/mi to be able to get 290 miles.
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I finished my trip, here are the basic stats. I drove extremely efficiently, extremely rare use of brakes, used only slow acceleration. I doubt it would be possible to do significantly better in the same conditions & speeds. Generally minimized use of AP unless traffic was clear (so there wasn't a lot of slowing/speeding activity). Really did slightly better than expected:

265.5 mi roundtrip
45mph average speed
268Wh/mi
Rated Miles Used: 296rmi (implies there were effectively 240Wh/rmi, on average, as far as SoC estimation was concerned)


It was 4 main segments, and I've excluded my local back and forth at the destination from the above. Segment details:

Segment 1
93.3mi 271Wh/mi 63mph 109rmi Elevation: -750ft
Segment 2
36.7mi 273Wh/mi 28mph 34rmi Elevation: +625ft
Segment 3
39.8mi 193Wh/mi 29mph ~30rmi Elevation: -772ft
Segment 4
95.7mi 293Wh/mi 61mph 122rmi Elevation: +897ft

Vehicle Details:
P3D+, 235 width stock PS4S tires, odometer 4700 miles
45psi cold (48psi when driving)
Fair, dry conditions, minimal wind, ~70 degrees
HVAC On, set to "LO" temp, AC off, fan speed 2-4. Sometimes HVAC was just off (notably segment 4).
Most (~85%) of the distance was covered on freeway (I-5, I-605, CA78, and I-15)
Freeway typical speed (when traffic was moderate) about 70-75mph. There was also significant traffic at times and spent perhaps 10-15 freeway miles at a crawl. I was always behind someone (4-5 following distance), so there was some small aero help.
Freeway max speed about 80mph
 
Before driving today I did a full trip charge and for the first time in more than 6 months charged to 310 miles so that was positive. Prior to 2019.8 I was getting about 303. I've done a 100% charge maybe 6 times in total and never supercharged. Usually charge to 80%. Had my car 14 months with 12.5k miles. Drove 149 miles today 98% highway driving at 65-70mph. 60 degrees. Range showed 153 miles when I got home which I thought was very reasonable.
Lifetime Wh/mi is 255 but now with warmer weather approaching I would expect to see that drop.
 
Before driving today I did a full trip charge and for the first time in more than 6 months charged to 310 miles so that was positive. Prior to 2019.8 I was getting about 303. I've done a 100% charge maybe 6 times in total and never supercharged. Usually charge to 80%. Had my car 14 months with 12.5k miles. Drove 149 miles today 98% highway driving at 65-70mph. 60 degrees. Range showed 153 miles when I got home which I thought was very reasonable.
Lifetime Wh/mi is 255 but now with warmer weather approaching I would expect to see that drop.

I assume this is a P3D+ with stock PS4S tires? And it sounds like a round trip? What was the average speed? Greater than 65mph? If so on all counts, this would be a very promising result. Would suggest that 60mph may be no problem. But it is close, and depends on SoC estimation nonlinearity.

I also got 310 miles on a full charge with the latest software - when I tried this one time previously it only got to 307 or so.
 
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