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Performance not getting 310 miles promised

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It is also why record for insane hypermile of Model 3 is up at 600 miles.

Curious what it is the hypermiling record for the AWD. (The RWD was an average of 19mph, ~110Wh/mi, slightly lower than I would have thought.)

Anyway, that's an absolute floor. You can also extrapolate from this....I would not be surprised at all that people make the rated range of 325mi (going below 0 rated miles) at 65mph - that would be about 220Wh/mi at 65mph.

So you can try to use that as a fit...110Wh/mi fixed + 110Wh/mi @65mph aero losses...146Wh/mi @ 65mph.

LOL "may be". :p

On the upside, we were both wrong! ;) Remember...you tried to scale the entire quantity...which was my original point! As you say, the AWD drivetrain is very hard to compare to the RWD. It's quite lossy.

Note that that value for the floor for the RWD matches my 110Wh/mi "fit" above - but my fit was for the AWD P with PS4S, so that 110Wh/mi is clearly way low (since 110Wh/mi is the best that can be achieved with RWD with MXM4s). So the aero losses are NOT as high as I needed to put in to fit the model...

Something just does not quite align. I maintain that it would be quite difficult in P3D+ to get better than 250Wh/mi @ 65mph (at sea level of course)! It's definitely not no problem or "driver option". It's right on the edge. My 275Wh/mi results at 75mph was with not insignificant aero help from other traffic...


Feel free to take that extended 200Wh/mi drive in your AWD with PS4S - not going to happen... ;)
 
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I have the following tire-patch tools in all my cars:
  1. Dynaplug for patching nail holes: https://www.amazon.com/Dynaplug-Ult...s=Dynaplug&qid=1558718630&s=automotive&sr=1-5
  2. Portable tire sealant integrated with the compressor for refilling the tire after hole has been patched. Mine is by Conti, but this is similar: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RNWOAQ/ref=psdc_15706711_t3_B000YMP1SA
Fixing your puncture and resuming the trip in 10-20 minutes sure beats waiting for AAA/Tesla repair truck to show up, which can take hours, depending on the location.

YMMV,
a

You do realize you cannot use those sealants on the Tesla Tires with the acoustic foam, right? As in all OEM tires.

That plug kit looked interesting. But after looking at it and the reviews I’ll stick with the tried and true style plug kit.
 
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My 2005 Subaru WRX STi got the promised 24MPG highway, basically all the time on the highway, traveling 75-80mph. It was so inefficient that really nothing mattered very much! ;)

None of the EPA numbers are “promised”. They are for comparison purposes only. If you drive the same equipment with the same parameters you should get the same numbers. Some people will beat the numbers some won’t. Just like ICE EPA ratings.
 
Remember...you tried to scale the entire quantity...which was my original point!
Look back through my numbers carefully, I did not. Included a fudge factor for baseline RR, electrical losses, computer system operation. I might have been a little low/high with some things, but those were on balance actually off somewhat towards your argument of "you can't do it in the P". "Conservative", as it were.
 
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None of the EPA numbers are “promised”. They are for comparison purposes only. If you drive the same equipment with the same parameters you should get the same numbers. Some people will beat the numbers some won’t. Just like ICE EPA ratings.

:) I swear they promised. I was trying to be funny. I think with the Subaru it was just so inefficient that the speed was much less of a factor. The acceleration deceleration in the highway test hurt the results (probably a lot), and the low aero speed of the test helped the EPA results. So on balance in reality, driving at 75mph, though much higher speed than the test, resulted in about the same answer, because the speeding up/slowing down doesn't happen.
 
Look back through my numbers carefully, I did not. I might have been a little high with some things, but those were actually off somewhat towards your argument of "you can't do it in the P".

I am fairly sure that 65mph will lead to greater than 250Wh/mi consumption (but it will be close). 75 mph gives about 275Wh/mi.

I said that....

(1 - (65/70)^2) * 100% = 14% less air resistance at 65mph vs 70mph. It shouldn't be close at all.

I thought this was your response... I'm not sure why you used 70 rather than my 75mph, but that's ok. (It may be you were scaling your numbers from earlier.)

I guess it is subject to debate. The implication to me is that you were saying 14% less than ~275Wh/mi (which is 237Wh/mi) would be easy, and that is why "it shouldn't be close at all". I maintain that it would be really close at 65mph!

Even though the formula you used (using the scaling from my 75mph to 65mph) would give:

(1- (65/75)^^2) *100 % = 75% of 275Wh/mi which would be 206Wh/mi

But it doesn't matter, scaling from 70mph or 75mph, either way it is quite optimistic and that's what I was objecting to.

Perhaps you weren't saying that. I guess I don't know how else to interpret it, in the context of you saying "it shouldn't be close at all". If you hadn't said that I would not have drawn the conclusion that you were scaling everything.

You can clarify what you meant; the above is genuinely how I interpreted it, which I think you can probably understand, even if it is not what you meant.
 
I included a fudge factor for non-aero. Your misuse of my math notwithstanding. Your point is limp and floppy. :p

What was the fudge factor? Confused about how else I was supposed to interpret your math, but that's ok. I agree with you that that is how aero losses scale!

The fact is you think "it shouldn't be close at all," and I think "it will be close" (both quotes from above).

I guess we have to define close. ;)
 
Tell you what; DM me for my address, drive out here, and I'll "hyper-mile" your car to the Houston MSR on a low traffic highway route, take it off the clock, give it a "proper" workout at the track....for, uh, a experiment control.....and then drive it home again. We'll see how that works out. :)
 
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Tell you what; DM me for my address, drive out here, and I'll "hyper-mile" your car to the Houston MSR on a low traffic highway route, take it off the clock, give it a "proper" workout at the track....for, uh, a experiment control.....and then drive it home again. We'll see how that works out. :)

I'll consider it if you buy me an extra set of wheels and tires. :)
 
I never said to use the 14% exactly like you did above. :/

I completely agree you did not. You gave the correct aero loss scaling formula. But you also said "it shouldn't be close at all". And I couldn't figure out how you could come to that conclusion except by using that scaling (which would give 237Wh/mi using the 275Wh/mi number I gave and scaling from 70mph to 65mph).

EDIT: arrgghh...keep on misquoting you. Corrected.
 
You were talking about 265Wh/mi for 70mph, right?
75 mph gives about 275Wh/mi.

That 75mph with 275Wh/mi is with my car from this weekend, trying to "hypermile" it at 75mph.

14% * 150Wh/mi = 21Wh/mi

Well, that 150Wh/mi (aero component) (@70mph?) I believe is further from the actual number than my original 85Wh/mi estimate.

The only way I can get a reasonable fit to what I observe (at sea level!!!) is to use something like 100Wh/mi @70mph.

Using this and my 75mph 275Wh/mi datapoint (which, incidentally, had aero help since there was moderate traffic but not enough to slow me down), I get:

275Wh/mi-100Wh/mi( (75/70)^2-(65/70)^2 ) = 246Wh/mi => To me that is "close" to 250Wh/mi, especially considering the aero help from the traffic for the 275Wh/mi @ 75mph base number.

Aside: It may well be that the modest traffic I've dealt with on freeways is obfuscating my results and confusing me about the true aero impact of different speeds. I could see it making things confusing for me. Though generally it would be helping my results so it seems like it would make things even worse than I think.

I'm really starting to want to just do a measurement of this. Wouldn't be that hard on a flat quiet section of freeway when winds are calm! It seems like it would be easy to simply do a run (round trip desirable but not essential) at 80mph and another at 60mph.

(best guess right now IIRC is LR is nominal 75kWh, so you need about 242Wh/mi to hit 310 mi, assuming you don't go to the emergency reserve)

I used to think it worked this way. There are threads devoted to this topic, but if you actually measure it in your own car (compare trip meter kWh to the number of rated miles used), you'll come up with a different result than 242Wh/mi. The result I get is between 230Wh/rmi and 235Wh/rmi. I've measured this in my car for long (~100 mile) trips a couple times recently. It's kind of annoying to do, though, and there are many pitfalls which can skew the results, so you can just take my word for it. ;) I plan to measure it again at some point but long trips are kind of required to get the accuracy.

That is the topic of a different conversation, though it is relevant here since it does affect how you interpret the trip meter numbers and what they say about how far you can go without entering the emergency reserve. It does not mean the battery is not 75kWh; it could just mean the trip meter doesn't count everything - typically it seems to be about 3-4% "low". (If you look at the hypermiling record, it suggests this, actually - they had just 110Wh/mi for a 606mile trip - and 66kWh used - but this was a year ago so the meter may not indicate the same way with the current software - it may be scaled to get closer to 75kWh...or it may be that for low consumption the meter just is not as accurate (in fact today @Zoomit posted some quotes from someone else about that - the higher the draw, the more accurate the metering, was the implication).)

Anyway, I believe that in the AWD you need to get indicated Wh/mi of better than about 232Wh/mi (splitting difference) to get 310 miles. Same for the performance. So a ~250Wh/mi result at 65mph results in about 290 miles.
 
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This is my RWD 18" driving avg, including heavy LA traffic (which helps energy). I doubt AWD will get any better than 250-260.
 

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I used to think it worked this way. There are threads devoted to this topic, but if you actually measure it in your own car (compare trip meter kWh to the number of rated miles used), you'll come up with a different result than 242Wh/mi. The result I get is between 230Wh/rmi and 235Wh/rmi. I've measured this in my car for long (~100 mile) trips a couple times recently. It's kind of annoying to do, though, and there are many pitfalls which can skew the results, so you can just take my word for it. ;) I plan to measure it again at some point but long trips are kind of required to get the accuracy.
That's only if you are weak and park part way through your trip, getting hit with vampire drain that doesn't get included in the car's calculations. :p

As for 150Wh/mi, it does fit. Go seek out those models you were talking about.
 
That's only if you are weak and park part way through the trip, getting hit with vampire drain that doesn't show up on the display. :p

Yeah, unfortunately not (actually it's not unfortunate - this number really doesn't matter, you just have to know what it is and then go from there). My numbers were calculated from entering drive to right after exiting drive. And with a warm battery to start with, and a warm battery at the end. With ambient temperatures constant. For an approximately 100-mile trip (~110 rated miles used I think).
 
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