Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[Dan_LA]

How do all you figure your range of 300-310 miles without running your battery down to 0%. Not suppose to go below 20%

Graphs average, 30 miles.. average miles.. shows a more accurate range you have... Not the battery green one.

Also from my own experience taking trips and just plain work commute with LR RWD. I mean yea to make it fair you would have to drive until 0% to make sure, I think the main thing is to calculate Wh/mi vs battery size and you get a notion of how much is your range.

 

[Dan_LA]

Cold air is also denser and thus the aero drag effects are greater. Same with seals and lubrication. Cold parts = more draggy parts.

Didn't know that about air.. but yea I think it all plays a part. But I think mostly is the 20" tires... vs the 18" they used on EPA etc... and they are banking on this loophole. Still as a consumer I don't think is fair 310 miles advertised, and first 1,000 miles getting a 200 miles range estimated.. that's about 28% less (200/274 90% charge) in LA area. Can't imagine what folks are getting in Snowie area.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

From what I've read the efficiency of the P3D+ goes up quite a bit with smaller all-season tires.

Where it gets a lot closer to the rated range.

Personally I ignore the rated range since we know they played games with it. Where the LR version was really 340, and I imagine the P3D+ is less than 310 with the 20's.

I will say I'm pretty happy that I can finally go 200+ miles. That gets me from my house to Portland fairly easily with about 50 miles to spare, and I don't have to charge to 100%.

With smaller tires I can probably do that trip faster where I can go back to doing 80 in the 70. I only do that now if I know I'm going to charge halfway there.

 

[moridin2002]

Didn't know that about air.. but yea I think it all plays a part. But I think mostly is the 20" tires... vs the 18" they used on EPA etc... and they are banking on this loophole. Still as a consumer I don't think is fair 310 miles advertised, and first 1,000 miles getting a 200 miles range estimated.. that's about 28% less (200/274 90% charge) in LA area. Can't imagine what folks are getting in Snowie area.

If they don't offer the 18s on the P3Ds for the 2019 model year, I suspect they will have to resubmit for certification with the different tire/wheel combo.

Are you preheating the cabin while plugged in before driving?

 

[AnesDragon]

I am also in the camp of we should be getting close to the advertised miles of 310 under normal driving condition. It would have been nice to have a bigger battery capacity for the performance version to be able to get the rated mileage. I get 320 wh/mi average during the winter and about 300 wh/mi during the fall. Nothing special just normal driving like my other vehicles except the PM3+ has faster acceleration. We are paying more for the performance version so I feel like the cost increase also justifies the increase in battery capacity. Otherwise, you are making compromises, performance vs range. Seems like when we are paying for increase performance we are not getting a discount for a reduced range. For some people, they would have just gotten the AW-LR if they knew they would have this much range compromise or even M3 LR with much cheaper cost. Most people probably did not realize how much of a reduced range hit when they purchase the PM3+ looking at EPA rated mileage. No wonder Tesla is making much higher margins on the performance versions. Having said all that I still love my PM3+. Only because most of the time I personally do not need the rated range for daily driving activities.

 

[Dan_LA]

From what I've read the efficiency of the P3D+ goes up quite a bit with smaller all-season tires.

Where it gets a lot closer to the rated range.

Personally I ignore the rated range since we know they played games with it. Where the LR version was really 340, and I imagine the P3D+ is less than 310 with the 20's.

I will say I'm pretty happy that I can finally go 200+ miles. That gets me from my house to Portland fairly easily with about 50 miles to spare, and I don't have to charge to 100%.

With smaller tires I can probably do that trip faster where I can go back to doing 80 in the 70. I only do that now if I know I'm going to charge halfway there.

Yep agree, I wasn't expecting 310 miles.. but rather 10-15% drop at most. Not 28-35%.

 

[Dan_LA]

If they don't offer the 18s on the P3Ds for the 2019 model year, I suspect they will have to resubmit for certification with the different tire/wheel combo.

Are you preheating the cabin while plugged in before driving?

No I'm not... but now I am driving with AC off for a while since is 50-65 out there. But yea, I think either BMS or tires 20" are responsible for the drop.

 

[Dan_LA]

I am also in the camp of we should be getting close to the advertised miles of 310 under normal driving condition. It would have been nice to have a bigger battery capacity for the performance version to be able to get the rated mileage. I get 320 wh/mi average during the winter and about 300 wh/mi during the fall. Nothing special just normal driving like my other vehicles except the PM3+ has faster acceleration. We are paying more for the performance version so I feel like the cost increase also justifies the increase in battery capacity. Otherwise, you are making compromises, performance vs range. Seems like when we are paying for increase performance we are not getting a discount for a reduced range. For some people, they would have just gotten the AW-LR if they knew they would have this much range compromise or even M3 LR with much cheaper cost. Most people probably did not realize how much of a reduced range hit when they purchase the PM3+ looking at EPA rated mileage. No wonder Tesla is making much higher margins on the performance versions. Having said all that I still love my PM3+. Only because most of the time I personally do not need the rated range for daily driving activities.

Ahhh thanks, that's my feeling too 100%. Possibly because I am terrible in writing and expressing in English (fluency in 4 languages is a curse).

My thought when Costa Mesa dealership told me same 310 miles range was... no way... if I can get 260-280 I am happy... UNLESS they added some few extra AA batteries there which clearly they didn't. Rather they used a number from a previous 18" wheels version. This is called scam to me as a consumer, for them might be a loophole or legally perfect, or EPA SAE Jurassic *sugar* standards, at least in 2018 it should be. Come on, their sales agreement is 2-3 pages! It's all about principles.

I would have kept happily my M3 LR RWD and changed the wheels for a safer one and be happy with 10% drop.

But to be fair, I will only be able to give a fair opinion near summer. For now I can only find where the energy drain is going so I can be better prepared for longer trips.

 

[EVDRVN]

I am also in the camp of we should be getting close to the advertised miles of 310 under normal driving condition. It would have been nice to have a bigger battery capacity for the performance version to be able to get the rated mileage. I get 320 wh/mi average during the winter and about 300 wh/mi during the fall. Nothing special just normal driving like my other vehicles except the PM3+ has faster acceleration. We are paying more for the performance version so I feel like the cost increase also justifies the increase in battery capacity. Otherwise, you are making compromises, performance vs range. Seems like when we are paying for increase performance we are not getting a discount for a reduced range. For some people, they would have just gotten the AW-LR if they knew they would have this much range compromise or even M3 LR with much cheaper cost. Most people probably did not realize how much of a reduced range hit when they purchase the PM3+ looking at EPA rated mileage. No wonder Tesla is making much higher margins on the performance versions. Having said all that I still love my PM3+. Only because most of the time I personally do not need the rated range for daily driving activities.

This applies to all performance cars and an ICE takes a bigger hit because the larger engine has more friction even when not using the added power. The range hit is not just about the performance version it is about the cold weather on all models this is a false argument. As long as the car meets the EPA rating under normal conditions then there is no issue. If a LR RWD has a 100KW pack and gets 400 miles in the summer it still does not change the rated range of your car and the relative decline in cold weather. These issues happen with all EV models and if you had a LEAF you would see something even worse as a percentage of EPA. I think far too many people are bitter that the LR has better range. The extra motor drag, cold weather and other factors make the car take a hit.

 

[StellarRat]

What's your average speed? In this in town or on the highway?

 

[Dan_LA]

What's your average speed? In this in town or on the highway?

I would say 80% highway and 20% local, same as my previous one, just regular commute to work, rush back to move around kids.. Average speed same as before 70-85 MPH.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

all about the wheels

*tires. Wheels have negligible effect on range, even if they are heavy boat anchors, when neglecting the aero cover benefit.


@AnesDragon unless you are tracking the car, you don’t have to compromise much/any on performance vs. range. You can get the MXM4s on 18” wheels that fit the calipers. And then you get about 300 miles.

My point is that there is no compromise. The P3D+ can be just as efficient as the AWD. Sell your 20” wheels for a bunch of money to someone who likes those things, and pick up a cheap set of 18” wheels from Tire Rack that are blessed as fitting the P3D+. You’ll make money. You can zip tie on some Aeros to get the last little bit. The only “compromise” is that the handling will be worse - but that has nothing to do with the vehicle you chose and is no different than any manufacturer. That’s all about tires.

If we can make enough people demand the Aeros, maybe someone will start making aeros with their aftermarket wheels.

Aside:
There is no known info yet, but the Performance motor potentially is slightly more efficient than the other motors since it is “binned for highest output”. The inverter electronics MAY have slightly less loss. However not likely to be a noticeable effect if you are driving conservatively because the losses are not as significant when using less of the available torque. In addition the car is slightly lower and that may help. It may actually be better than the AWD! (But nothing will beat the RWD of course.)

 

[3mp_kwh]

How is it holding your 18" wheels on the road? So far I like 20" wheels, it holds well, not sure if 18" will be able to hold the torque on the curves.

Grip won't be the issue. People don't like slip angles, when the rim can face one way and the tire's contact patch can lag behind. High profile tires do this, more than low profile tires. I routinely run 21's, but two inches less diameter really help the ride enough that I'm thinking about just letting 19's "hook up" in more than my snows.

 

[gjunky]

About 4500 miles in, 3LRD, average consumption at 245w/mi and I am not a slow driver. Mixed driving on (large) surface street and freeway at 70+. I have the 18 aeros and I agree that they limit the cornering speed but are otherwise fine (I prefer the ride over low profile tires)
@Dan_LA Did you try the chill mode on a average/longer trip? What was your trip consumption when you did?

 

[hdAge]

I had a very similar experience during my first couple of charges with terrible range on the P3D, but since then I have charged all the way to 100% and used it until the battery came down to 10% or so and I have seen improvement in the range. I have tracked this only once now and in that instance I got 250 miles (with 60% freeway speeds upto 75mph and 40% city driving). Check the snapshot that I took, 215 miles driven since the last charge with 34 miles left (11% remaining battery) and the energy consumption meter was actually projecting 41 remaining miles. Even if I go with the lower value (34 miles), I have successfully got 250 miles, averaging 282 Wh/mil.

And here is the kicker: I have custom aftermarket staggered 20" Vossen wheels with open spoke design and 285 wide tires at the rear (have done everything to kill efficiency ) and still managed to get 250 miles. I'm tracking again and so far have driven 70 miles with 68% battery remaining.

My suggestion is, if you havent already charged all the way to 100%, please do so atleast 3 to 4 times and drive it all the way down to 10%. The BMS will start to adapt and make the battery more efficient.

One thing I want to mention, if you are parking outside the cold temperature can have a noticeable effect on the range as the temp has been down to 30's the last few days/weeks in socal area, it is back to upper 40's now though.

@Dan_LA if you ever see a Burgundy Model 3 in the area, that would be me

 

[David L]

I got the P exactly because of poor performance not say hazard problem with the 18" wheels and/or tires of the LR RWD.

The 18" aero wheels and Michelin Primacys on my LR RWD have been performed perfectly fine for me over the last 10k miles, even in the rain. Perhaps you'll get better range if you don't drive your 3P like you stole it. Admittedly that's hard, because why else would you buy a 3P, but just sayin'....

 

[Dan_LA]

About 4500 miles in, 3LRD, average consumption at 245w/mi and I am not a slow driver. Mixed driving on (large) surface street and freeway at 70+. I have the 18 aeros and I agree that they limit the cornering speed but are otherwise fine (I prefer the ride over low profile tires)
@Dan_LA Did you try the chill mode on a average/longer trip? What was your trip consumption when you did?

haven't yet, will try that too... probably and other scenarios too.

 

[Dan_LA]

I had a very similar experience during my first couple of charges with terrible range on the P3D, but since then I have charged all the way to 100% and used it until the battery came down to 10% or so and I have seen improvement in the range. I have tracked this only once now and in that instance I got 250 miles (with 60% freeway speeds upto 75mph and 40% city driving). Check the snapshot that I took, 215 miles driven since the last charge with 34 miles left (11% remaining battery) and the energy consumption meter was actually projecting 41 remaining miles. Even if I go with the lower value (34 miles), I have successfully got 250 miles, averaging 282 Wh/mil.

And here is the kicker: I have custom aftermarket staggered 20" Vossen wheels with open spoke design and 285 wide tires at the rear (have done everything to kill efficiency ) and still managed to get 250 miles. I'm tracking again and so far have driven 70 miles with 68% battery remaining.

My suggestion is, if you havent already charged all the way to 100%, please do so atleast 3 to 4 times and drive it all the way down to 10%. The BMS will start to adapt and make the battery more efficient.

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One thing I want to mention, if you are parking outside the cold temperature can have a noticeable effect on the range as the temp has been down to 30's the last few days/weeks in socal area, it is back to upper 40's now though.

@Dan_LA if you ever see a Burgundy Model 3 in the area, that would be me

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YES!! THANK YOU!!! That was the response I was looking for haha... Definitely will stop you to say Hi if we meet up somewhere out on the wild. Yea I feel BMS has a lot on it... I will try dropping low and charging full mixed with supercharging (some user recommended) and see if it can get better. Nice wheels!

 

[Dan_LA]

The 18" aero wheels and Michelin Primacys on my LR RWD have been performed perfectly fine for me over the last 10k miles, even in the rain. Perhaps you'll get better range if you don't drive your 3P like you stole it. Admittedly that's hard, because why else would you buy a 3P, but just sayin'....

Haha after 1,000 miles that hype already plateuaed haha but yea if I am alone, chances are we always trying to beat the 3seconds thing haha. And you are right bought it because of 3s, AWD (love it since I had Subaru WRX and Audi A6 Quattro) and the tires, but 310 miles helped decision as well

 

[blake99111]

Thanks for all the tips!! I recently purchased my M3P and first Tesla, driven about 500 miles, and the efficiency isn’t nearly close to what it’s rated. I’ll try a few full charging cycles, chill mode, and other things people have suggested. It is a bit cold here in Utah right now, so I’m sure that doesn’t help

It’s important for Tesla to get the efficiency rating accurate and correct. One of my old co-workers had a Hyundai that was eligible for their EPA settlement About Hyundai’s Settlement with the EPA and CARB - Hyundai MPG Info Every time he went into the dealership for an oil change, they would note the odometer reading and he would get a check for the miles he had driven. Hope that something similar doesn’t happen with the M3P