Performance not getting 310 miles promised

[Dan_LA]

@Dan_LA,

There are two reasons why your P3D has less range than your LR:

1. Both EPA tests (LR and LRD/P) were performed with the 18" wheels. LRD/P scored 296 miles in EPA highway test compared to 318 mi for the LR. In case you are wondering how it ended up at 310 miles if the score was 296, that's because EPA rated range combines city and highway scores. City score has 55% weight compared to 45% for the highway score and all Model 3 cars have higher scores in the city test. The actual EPA rated range numbers were 309 miles for LRD/P and 334 miles for LR. Tesla used an alternative multiplier to increase LRD/P's score from 309 to 310 and they have voluntarily reduced LR's score from 334 to 310. So that's why both cars ended up at 310. However, the important thing is, when both were tested with 18" wheels, the highway score was 296 vs 318.
2. You get less range with the 20" wheels compared to 18". If the P3D were tested with 20" wheels, it would have scored 269 miles instead of 296.

Here is a detailed breakdown:

• The Model 3 Performance version has 310 miles EPA rated range.
• However, EPA rated range is calculated from 55% of EPA city range and 45% of EPA highway range. The EPA highways score was 296 miles for P3D.
• However, the car was tested with 18" wheels. If it were tested with 20" wheels, EPA highway range would have been 269 miles.
• However, that range corresponds to 68 mph. At 75 mph, it drops to 240 miles.
• However, A/C, cold weather and road surface will also affect range. To be clear, if the weather is cold, you will still lose some range even if the roads are dry and A/C is off because batteries don't perform as well in cold weather.

I recommend checking out my range table here: teslike.com/range. It's based on EPA highway scores. If you scroll down around 40% of the page, there is a section called "Is EPA rated range a good measure to compare the range of different Tesla cars?" I recommend reading that section.

Edit: Here is a table that explains things better:

That's the most informative I can get and thank you. Summarizing I need to get over and figure out how to poop $250k in 2 years... hahaha...

240 miles is really low for someone that doesn't know all that numbers and is expecting 310 or same mileage. Regardless of EPA, I am basing my 10,000 miles driven vs the current one, I just got shocked when I saw I had 200 miles total probably... that's 35% drop... 240 miles would be a 22.5% drop.. which I agree, on the winter. At the end of the day, is just going to be a bad rap advertising 310 miles for something that should be 264 miles.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Yes I have the performance version with performance upgrade. 20" wheels and bigger brakes. For got to add that and now cannot edit the post.

 

[Dan_LA]

Well since the wheels and tires looks like are responsible for 30-40miles apparently... does anyone tested and used other set of tires that can help range? like lighter? I don't mind much aesthetics but more utility of getting lightweight wheels as some racer told me is not about total weight but centripetal force and other physics when wheels spins in a lighter settings.

For instance if I install a MOMO RF-5C
Vendor - New! Momo releasing new Rotary Forged wheels!

Would that helps with range? Do i need to really go back to 18"? Appreciate other owners that had changed wheels and got better range to share your data here. For instance my 20" is 28lb, those momos are 23lb, how that would affect or not range? or diameter of wheel would affect more? width?.. considering I need a balance and needs to be tacky... ( will be doing my own research as well...)

Cheers!

 

[Glamisduner]

Well since the wheels and tires looks like are responsible for 30-40miles apparently... does anyone tested and used other set of tires that can help range? like lighter? I don't mind much aesthetics but more utility of getting lightweight wheels as some racer told me is not about total weight but centripetal force and other physics when wheels spins in a lighter settings.

For instance if I install a MOMO RF-5C
Vendor - New! Momo releasing new Rotary Forged wheels!

Would that helps with range? Do i need to really go back to 18"? Appreciate other owners that had changed wheels and got better range to share your data here. For instance my 20" is 28lb, those momos are 23lb, how that would affect or not range? or diameter of wheel would affect more? width?.. considering I need a balance and needs to be tacky... ( will be doing my own research as well...)

Cheers!

I'm not getting 310 on my P3D- either . My commute is about 41 miles to work, and I use about 50-60 range depending on if I have climate control on / off and if I do any accelerations etc. So I start with about 240 miles range and end up with about 120 something by the time I get home. I don't drive it like my volt though, I keep up with traffic rather than getting into the slow lane to conserve battery.

I tried using chill mode, but I have never made it all the way to work with this feature on lol

 

[Feathermerchan]

Dan - Look here:
The Tesla Model 3 Wheel and Tire Guide

You can see the wheel weights. Remember that a larger dia wheel has it's weight further from its center magnifying the weight by increasing inertia. Wheels themselves mainly cost you range in starting and stopping. The tires have a much bigger influence. The Tsportline offers wheels and wheel/tire sets. And all of their wheels fit our performance optioned Model 3's.
The performance optioned Model 3's have different rotors with thinner rotor hats that require a little extra machining of the wheels.
Watch this:

 

[Troy]

Would that helps with range?

I don't know about those but here is info about other custom wheels:

Stock 18" wheels: 251 Wh/mi over 346 miles
VMR 20" wheels: 330 Wh/mi over 285 miles

In other words, they are 31% worse than 18" wheels. Therefore you might want to find consumption data before buying.

Btw, Tesla has new 19" aero wheels or aero hubcaps for 19" wheels in China. Maybe these will be available in the US in the future in case you think they look better. Tesla Model 3 Performance gets 19-inch "Power Sports" Aero Wheels in China

 

[mswlogo]

I'm not getting 310 on my P3D- either . My commute is about 41 miles to work, and I use about 50-60 range depending on if I have climate control on / off and if I do any accelerations etc. So I start with about 240 miles range and end up with about 120 something by the time I get home. I don't drive it like my volt though, I keep up with traffic rather than getting into the slow lane to conserve battery.

I tried using chill mode, but I have never made it all the way to work with this feature on lol

Sounds like your driving it like you stole it if you can’t make it work once in chill mode. I forget if I have chill mode on or off on my P3D-.

 

[TheLocNar]

Because you averaged 26 mph? haha

Ask the corvette in my rear view mirror.

 

[rdunniii]

I've never gotten close to any EPA estimate in any car I have ever owned or driven. Can't drive the wimpy. I usually get about 70% of the EPA estimate I'm in that range with the P3. Probably why I don't like auto steer, too wimpy even in the most aggressive mode.

 

[JeffK]

Ask the corvette in my rear view mirror.

I mean the math on the numbers showed you did an average of 26 mph.

haha I had to check your location because since you mentioned a corvette in your rear view mirror I was thinking this was like some kind of old person street race in Florida or something.

 

[gilscales]

Most people posting about wheel weight are not considering the aerodynamics of the wheel which is what counts on the hwy.
Here is a company that is making an Aero Disc for a couple of its wheels, would be interesting if someone had the wheels installed to see the difference on and off
Aerodisc - Rotiform Wheels

 

[uNki]

I had another thought. Are you regen braking allot? I found the performance model gets up to speed so quickly I almost always overshoot and let my foot off the throttle. This causes me to regen brake which is bad for efficiency. Try to watch the juice meter while your driving and see if you can avoid regen braking from overshooting the speed limit.

BTW thanks for making me feel better about the P3d- I ended up with

you're suggesting that the the actual "overshooting" is accountable for the bad efficiency, not the regen braking itself, right? because regen braking per se should be beneficial regarding efficiency!?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

you're suggesting that the the actual "overshooting" is accountable for the bad efficiency, not the regen braking itself, right? because regen braking per se should be beneficial regarding efficiency!?

No. Regen is ONLY beneficial if your ONLY other option is to use the brakes.

This is because it is far from 100% efficient to take energy from the battery and then return it.

It is best to NEVER use regen OR the friction brakes. Obviously on hills and such you have to use regen. That is why hills hurt efficiency.

You’ll find that if you don’t use the brakes or regen you’ll have pretty great efficiency & low tire wear.

 

[happyzod]

you're suggesting that the the actual "overshooting" is accountable for the bad efficiency, not the regen braking itself, right? because regen braking per se should be beneficial regarding efficiency!?

Regen breaking vs coasting, I believe coasting will win out unless you NEED to break.

 

[uNki]

No. Regen is ONLY beneficial if your ONLY other option is to use the brakes.

This is because it is far from 100% efficient to take energy from the battery and then return it.

It is best to NEVER use regen OR the friction brakes. Obviously on hills and such you have to use regen. That is why hills hurt efficiency.

that's what I meant.. If I'm driving in the city I will need to brake at some point (red light, car in front of me, etc..) - that's why we have brakes, right? If I use regen braking in those situations and don't need my actual brakes, it's good for efficiency.
Not needing to brake at all (especially in the city) is unrealistic imo.

 

[MXWing]

Nothing directly related but:

1 - Those iPaces and 90KW packs are advertised to ONLY 234 miles. All Model 3 packs are ~75KW.

2 - I would consider a 2.5 second Model 3 that only has 150 miles of range.

 

[CAAD]

I just drove from SJ, CA to Pasadena, CA then to Las Vegas and paid a total of $98.48 for all the charging, in a P3D+, 4 people, luggage.
I have to say, even with the inefficiency of the 20" wheels, I'm still better off than driving an ICE car.

 

[gilscales]

I just drove from SJ, CA to Pasadena, CA then to Las Vegas and paid a total of $98.48 for all the charging, in a P3D+, 4 people, luggage.
I have to say, even with the inefficiency of the 20" wheels, I'm still better off than driving an ICE car.

even at $3.60 a gallon isn't that only 24 mpg? seems it should have done better than that? 640 miles comes out to over $0.15 a mile, When i'm traveling similarly loaded on a road trip in my RWD LR I am around half of that price on the SC's something does not add up here?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

that's what I meant.. If I'm driving in the city I will need to brake at some point (red light, car in front of me, etc..) - that's why we have brakes, right? If I use regen braking in those situations and don't need my actual brakes, it's good for efficiency.
Not needing to brake at all (especially in the city) is unrealistic imo.

Sure. I was just saying regen is not beneficial for efficiency; if you want to maximize efficiency you should avoid it at all costs, except friction braking. As you say, the overshoot is certainly bad because you just regen more. So easy to do though...

It’s kind of a silly thing, I know. Hard to accomplish in the city. However, my brother drove his Sentra for 130k mostly city/commute miles before replacing front pads (after 18 years or so). No regen! Drive your Tesla like that, and the OP and you will have pretty great efficiency. Of course, the Tesla coasts like a champ.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I would agree on all that if I haven't driven LR RWD from LA to Vegas straight (I left from Ontario area, 250miles route). Arrived in Vegas with 50 miles left... driving 75-85 mph like I always do and didn't go easy on hills etc.

Lose the boat anchor 20 inch wheels and get 18's with Pilot Super Sports... you still get the road handling without all the weight..

Also Tesla is coming out with forged wheels for the Model 3... they should have come stock on the performance model for product differentiation from the standard Model 3. Those should be a lot lighter ~20 pounds each verse ~33 or whatever the stock 20inch wheels are... for comparison the Model S forged Arachnids in 21 inch are lighter than the stock 19's on the Model S...

Also by comparison, buying a Model X 75 with 20's verses the Model X 90 with 22's yielded the same long distance range. You could save $10,000 and get the exact same performance..... so wheel weight does make a huge difference.

Tesla Model S and Model X: Here’s how wheel size can affect efficiency - bet you get ~25% back in range moving to light weight forged wheels in 18 inch with low rolling resistance tires... or stick with Pilot Super Sports and get ~20% back..

Here are the results:

• 4.9% more consumption for Model S P100D with 21″ vs 19″ wheels.
• 5.2% more consumption for Model S P90D with 21″ vs 19″ wheels.
• 11.6% more consumption for Model S 60/75 with 21″ vs 19″ wheels.
• 11.8% more consumption for Model S 60D/75D/90D with 21″ vs 19″ wheels.
• 22.2% more consumption for Model X P90D with 22″ vs 20″ wheels.
• 22.5% more consumption for Model X 60D/75D/90D with 22″ vs 20″ wheels.
• 23.3% more consumption for Model X P100D with 22″ vs 20″ wheels.