Performance or not!

[Quickturtle]

Like some others, I'm on the fence about spending $10k extra for the performance Model 3 ("P3D"). I definitely want AWD, and would pay for the 1 sec faster acceleration if there was a tangible hardware difference, but it does at this point seem like it's purely a software unlock and there's no way of knowing whether that will come to the regular AWD ("3D") at a later point. Indeed current tests show the 3D as doing 4.1-4.2 secs 0-60, so Tesla appears to have been generous with their first firmware version (which of course could change a with the RWD version which they throttled from 4.7 secs to 5.1 secs).

I have two more considerations about this: one is that I'd probably save $1-1.5k during the first 50k miles through free supercharging with the P3D, the other is that I anticipate selling the car after ~3 years/50k miles, and hope to recover some of the premium I paid for the performance, let's say $4k of it (assuming the total value of Teslas depreciates by 60% over 3 years). So maybe all in all the extra cost or the performance is closer to 1-2k per year for me, which seems more worthwhile even for a relatively small acceleration gain. Does this logic make sense?

Any other factors I should consider? Thank you very much for your time!

 

[P85_DA]

If u plan on selling either of the cars at the 3 year mark ..just get the car you will be happy with ...both cars will depreciate regardless ...whether u get P or not Tesla in that time frame will come with something better or faster that everyone wants so I wouldn’t try to factor that too much

 

[Quickturtle]

If u plan on selling either of the cars at the 3 year mark ..just get the car you will be happy with ...both cars will depreciate regardless ...whether u get P or not Tesla in that time frame will come with something better or faster that everyone wants so I wouldn’t try to factor that too much

Thanks for the thought. May I ask, are you suggesting that the P3D will sell for the same as a 3D at the 3 year mark? I assumed I should still be able to get $4k or so more for it (assuming a total depreciation of the cars value of 60%). Does my rationale make sense here?

 

[P85_DA]

No the P3D will probably resell more but typically the Ps depreciate more than regulars ...if you look at P85D vs 85D prices now on cpo the delta is less than 10k in some instances ..but brand new the premium for P was a lot higher than that ...get the car u will be happy driving for 3years

 

[boriszima]

@Quickturtle Get Performance without EAP and FSD and 18 inch wheels, this will be about the same $ as fully loaded AWD. Later during the road, you can add that, but not Performance. I read what you said, but there has not been any official confirmation (to my knowledge) that AWD and P-AWD are identical in hardware. Even Elon said motors will be sorted and likely other "parts" to allow more current to flow. In other words, its unlikely just software. Just look into P100D vs 100D, different.

As far as value, best bang is the base model, as down the road extra $ you pay for all the features buyers wont care too much about it. Change is Constant, there is always going to be something better, faster, stronger, etc especially with Tesla as it continues to develop and improve cars.

Good luck!

 

[MXWing]

It wouldn't be just $10,000 as you will pay more tax, registration and insurance. Tesla owners also pump in extra things like 360 tint, PPF, ceramic coating, etc.

That's a huge equity burn for just 3 years of ownership.

Bang for buck rental Model 3 would be Black, AWD, No EAP/FSD.

You'll then find a Model S P85 will be cheaper and have ~ P3 performance.

Hope you find your optimal scenario!

 

[sperkin]

I went with the non-P AWD because EAP is important to me and I use it 98% of the time. Also, I'm always in traffic plus my Model S 75D is already way too fast for me. Decided to save $15k instead of getting the badge to show off and I'll only launch the car 0-60 about 12 to 15 times.

I had a s2000 and NSX before and both cars never saw Vtec. If you accelerate fast all the time then go with the P. If not, save the $10-15k.

 

[brianman]

You'll then find a Model S P85 will ... have ~ P3 performance.

I'm confused by this statement.

As an owner of an S P85, I test drove a Performance 3 (for a few miiles) within a week of my S P85 (for ~40 miles) and the former's performance was significantly better. In high performance scenarios (autocross, lapping), I expect the gap will be even more significant.

 

[noam]

Thanks for the thought. May I ask, are you suggesting that the P3D will sell for the same as a 3D at the 3 year mark? I assumed I should still be able to get $4k or so more for it (assuming a total depreciation of the cars value of 60%). Does my rationale make sense here?

I wouldn't get the performance version assuming you'll get $4k of the difference back on resale. If resale value is your #1 driver, go with the base model. If you want to strike a reasonable balance between fun and resale, AWD. Get the performance because you want it while you own it, not because you get much on resale.

Will it sell at the same as the AWD? No... I imagine there will be a premium. How much? No one knows. I'd suggest you be conservative and assume $2k. If it still makes sense to get performance to you, then you just have upside potential when you do go to sell.

 

[attack7]

I ended up going non-P... the config I wanted had a $13.5k difference in price (80k vs 66.5k) and I was getting a second faster to 60, better brakes, a lowered suspension, a spoiler, a higher top speed... I could easily see this being worth the money to some people, but I'm not a track person, and the daily use of extreme acceleration is handled quite nicely (for me) by AWD. So, frugality won, in this rare, rare case

 

[MXWing]

I ended up going non-P... the config I wanted had a $13.5k difference in price (80k vs 66.5k) and I was getting a second faster to 60, better brakes, a lowered suspension, a spoiler, a higher top speed... I could easily see this being worth the money to some people, but I'm not a track person, and the daily use of extreme acceleration is handled quite nicely (for me) by AWD. So, frugality won, in this rare, rare case

Looking at acceleration only, the price delta is $11,000 (at the time).

You can't lop the rice package in as a requirement for extreme acceleration as it wasn't mandated.

At 2.26%, $11,000 is $240 per month were it 100% financed over 4 years (excluding marginal insurance, tax, registration)

Just helping to make sure people understand the true cost of things.

 

[Quickturtle]

I'm confused by this statement.

As an owner of an S P85, I test drove a Performance 3 (for a few miiles) within a week of my S P85 (for ~40 miles) and the former's performance was significantly better. In high performance scenarios (autocross, lapping), I expect the gap will be even more significant.

Just to clarify, you preferred the performance of the Model 3, correct?

 

[jdmasters]

why do people always think that the performance option will be some software unlock down the road?

 

[Quickturtle]

why do people always think that the performance option will be some software unlock down the road?

Because there is no data to support the idea that there are tangible hardware differences between AWD and Performance. "Lot sorting" is the only difference Elon/Tesla mentioned, but it is hard to imagine that output variations of motors in the lot are greater than a percent, because that would lead to quality variations across vehicles of the same type as well (say there were 10% variations in output, that means variations across e.g., RWD cars would be 5% -- totally unacceptable) and suggest highly questionable quality control in Tesla's factory.

Moreover, EPA data show that the rear motors of the performance and RWD versions are rated for identical 211 kW output (Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor and Performance versions get official EPA ratings), making the notion that these are lot sorted engines highly suspect (since what would they have done with all the RWD motors that weren't good enough? Store them for a year to put them in the regular AWD? Throw them away?). Front motors of P-AWD and AWD versions are rated for exactly the same 147 kW, so that is not where the difference is coming from.

 

[P85_DA]

Because there is no data to support the idea that there are tangible hardware differences between AWD and Performance. "Lot sorting" is the only difference Elon/Tesla mentioned, but it is hard to imagine that output variations of motors in the lot are greater than a percent, because that would lead to quality variations across vehicles of the same type as well (say there were 10% variations in output, that means variations across e.g., RWD cars would be 5% -- totally unacceptable) and suggest highly questionable quality control in Tesla's factory.

Moreover, EPA data show that the rear motors of the performance and RWD versions are rated for identical 211 kW output (you can google it), making the notion that these are lot sorted engines highly suspect (since what would they have done with all the RWD motors that weren't good enough? Store them for a year to put them in the regular AWD? Throw them away?). Front motors of P-AWD and AWD versions are rated for exactly the same 185 kW, so that is not where the difference is coming from.

You are overthinking this ..Tesla will not magically turn the AWD into a P no more than they took normal 100Ds and turned them in to Ps ...if you really want the P just go for it ...I have had three Tesla’s ...not one of them was turned into something faster ...folks also try to use the 75 uncork software ...well that was never advertised and they just threw that out there ...this is a company trying to make money ...they wouldn’t have stratified the packages this way ..in a few years something faster and better will come out as well

 

[jdmasters]

Even if they are the exact same car, why would Tesla unlock it?

 

[CapnOMatic]

Like some others, I'm on the fence about spending $10k extra for the performance Model 3 ("P3D"). I definitely want AWD, and would pay for the 1 sec faster acceleration if there was a tangible hardware difference, but it does at this point seem like it's purely a software unlock and there's no way of knowing whether that will come to the regular AWD ("3D") at a later point. Indeed current tests show the 3D as doing 4.1-4.2 secs 0-60, so Tesla appears to have been generous with their first firmware version (which of course could change a with the RWD version which they throttled from 4.7 secs to 5.1 secs).

I have two more considerations about this: one is that I'd probably save $1-1.5k during the first 50k miles through free supercharging with the P3D, the other is that I anticipate selling the car after ~3 years/50k miles, and hope to recover some of the premium I paid for the performance, let's say $4k of it (assuming the total value of Teslas depreciates by 60% over 3 years). So maybe all in all the extra cost or the performance is closer to 1-2k per year for me, which seems more worthwhile even for a relatively small acceleration gain. Does this logic make sense?

Any other factors I should consider? Thank you very much for your time!

I know that sometimes you want to make sure you are considering everything and definitely doing your homework/math is always advisable, however, I would remind you that If you have the money for the performance version then get it. If you don't get it, make sure you are not going to be unhappy later because unless Tesla tells you you can upgrade later I would not bet on it. This is my first Tesla and sure I wish that I had the option of ordering the dual motor (It was announced just prior to me taking delivery), but I've been extremely happy with just even the rear wheel drive single motor. But base your decision on what's going to make you happy + what you can afford. Yes it's only 1 second less than the dual motor, but if it makes you feel good to say that you are just about in super car territory in your production car then go for it my friend.

Not sure why you want to sell at the 3 year mark, but it's up to you. BTW worth considering - what is the price tag out there for other cars that have a 3.5 second 0-60?

If I had the money to get one I would. They are amazing cars!! But get it soon so you don't miss out on the 7500 tax credit.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Even if they are the exact same car, why would Tesla unlock it?

Personally I expect if they do it at all they'll only offer a partial unlock down the road, somewhere between initial shipping performance level and that of the P. Also not without first, or simultaneously, bumping the P (with whatever room they find that the batteries can generally handle).

 

[MXWing]

I'm confused by this statement.

As an owner of an S P85, I test drove a Performance 3 (for a few miiles) within a week of my S P85 (for ~40 miles) and the former's performance was significantly better. In high performance scenarios (autocross, lapping), I expect the gap will be even more significant.

I think they are close enough when evaluating a pure value play. My opinion of course, you may feel different.

You won't take a 60% depreciation hit (using OPs number) after 3 years on a second hand S P85.

 

[Quickturtle]

...folks also try to use the 75 uncork software ...well that was never advertised and they just threw that out there

Does that software work? If yes, do you agree that the same thing could happen for the regular dual motor Model 3, devaluing the Performance version?