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Performance - Worth It?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Nate977p, May 20, 2018.

  1. Nate977p

    Nate977p Member

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    I posted on the 64 (as of now) page thread, but wanted to create a thread to discuss the performance version...

    Now I am not digging at anyone who is planning to go P, but for me I do not see the value. Sportiness has always been a key driver in my car choices and I would always option for the sport additions, and am ecstatic I can finally get a powerful AWD electric car (placed my order tonight on LRD)!

    From Elon's tweet and conjections on other threads, it seems the P motors are the same as the 3LRD, just they are the units that test best with more capable inverters. Obviously there will be some software and other minor hardware tweaks, but besides that, 20" rims, and spoile (well and white for now), the jump for only a 1 second reduction in 0-60 seems quite steep. I know the S has an even larger jump, but that is justified by the acceleration beating hypercars and for it to be Tesla's halo. I was hoping for a more direct competitor to the M3/RS5/AMG/ATS-V crowd than another number poster. I.e. brakes, suspension, tires, ext. Now I know there was no past basis for that, just my hopes:)

    That all being said, I get the great acceleration, but that does not justify it for me and I wanted to hear what other people's thoughts on the jump to a P was for the.

    Thanks!
     
    • Like x 2
  2. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    If it is a true M3/RS5/AMG/ATS-V competitor then it is “worth it”
    0-60 is a very small part of those cars value. What about 60-120? Braking? Cornering?
    Do we know yet that the LRD doesn’t have a smaller rear motor?
    We don’t yet have any specs for the P3D except for Elon’s tweets. Maybe he has no idea what he’s talking about or maybe it really will be class leading. If it’s just the stuff he listed in the tweets it’s definitely not worth it IMHO.

    Of course all these cars are completely overkill for the street. I just want a LRD with a white interior :(
     
  3. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    People have traditionally been paying good money for acceleration. It's just a number that costs a lot!

    Premium Model S 100D =$99,000
    P MS100D=$135,000

    That's a difference of $36,000

    Premium 5 seater Model X 100D=$102,000
    5 seater Model X P100D=$140,000

    That's a difference of $38,000


    Model 3 Long Range with Premium = $49,000
    Model 3 Long Range Dual Performance=$78,000

    That's a difference of $29,000

    There must be a worthy market for that kind of acceleration cost or otherwise Tesla wouldn't be able to sell them!
     
    • Like x 1
  4. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    People have too much money. haha. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
    I would be very curious how many seconds people use that extra power on the street over the life of the car.
    The first P85 was only a $10k premium but it seems like the price keeps increasing and if people will pay it, why not?
    I see tons of P100D's around here. I do wonder if the same pricing model will work as well for the Model 3. I feel like many Model S buyers have a pretty much unlimited vehicle budget.
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    28.5% more power. You decide

    The important point here is to not be deceived by "1 second."
    20 seconds down to 19 seconds is pretty pedestrian
    2.5 seconds down to 1.5 seconds is lights out
    4.5 seconds down to 3.5 seconds is going to rock you.
     
    • Like x 4
  6. CarlK

    CarlK Active Member

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    3.5 second 0-60 does not come cheap. You pay about the same if not more for the "1 second" improvement to there whether it's an M, AMG or 911 turbo.
     
  7. graphix25

    graphix25 -=electronboy=-

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    For $29,000 you get upgraded 20" wheels, bin sorted motors, upgraded inverted with exotic materials to maximize power deliver, first access to white interior and a exterior carbon fiber winglet. From my viewpoint what is missing is upgraded performance brakes and a suspension. I think the value is not fully there but this like all the P models is a margin grab for Tesla to pay for the assembly line / growth and allow for the introduction of the $35,000 model. People are willing to pay for performance to get the best. I see a ton of P's in the Seattle area for the X and S. The 0 to 100 acceleration is going to be really great on the Performance Model 3, the 100 to 0 maybe not so much. There may be more details to the performance edition to be released. I'm not sure I buy Elon's comments that it will out perform a BMW M3 on the track unless that track is 1/4 mile strip. I have spent 100's of hours at my local track in my past Porsche's so I know a little about what it takes to be a true track day car.

    For me it would not be worth it unless it was a true performance model all around which includes suspension, brakes and motor/hp. However there are lot of folks with money to burn. I anticipated the price points and decided to take delivery in March of the 1st production rear wheel drive, pearl white and could not be happier. The car is great and beautifully designed / executed. My plan is to pass this car down for my kids to use in 6 or 7 years and get me something really special, Roadster maybe if TSLA hits $1500 a share.


     
    • Like x 1
  8. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    Absolute value? NOT WORTH IT AWD M3 is the absolute value sweet spot.
    You like fast cars, and relative value? ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT.

    I kicked the hornets nest by stating the Base Model S sucks compared to the P Model 3 for only 3.5 more K. That is assuming performance matters to you.
     
  9. rmmcdaniel

    rmmcdaniel Member

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    Having read all of Elon's tweets and the updates to the configurator and FAQ pages on tesla.com, I am near convinced that the Performance version has zero drivetrain/chassis differences from normal AWD model.

    The only hardware change either source mentions are motors that test to higher threshold, but are of same design/components and produced on same line as standard AWD motors.

    Elon's tweets speak to the new inverters but if you analyze the words carefully, no reason to believe those same inverters are not being used on all AWD M3s (Performance or not).

    The configurator, FAQ and Elon do not show or mention upgraded (red) brake calipers or suspension.

    For the $ difference between AWD and Performance you obviously get some physical differences in the 20" wheels and spoiler (and ability to get white interior early), but as for the actual car itself, I think Performance is nothing more than a software upgrade.

    Which begs the question...will any AWD owner be able to software upgrade to Performance down the road? Whose to say that ALL motors being produced do not test out to the "higher threshold"...?

    If above is true it would support simplified manufacturing as the basic sled for all AWD models would have component-parity. The only additional changes to production down the line being interior and wheels, two components that do not require robot/assembly line changes from current RWD M3 production (line already accommodates multiple wheels types and color change of interior components only affects how they are lined up in queue for robots, not actual assembly procedure).

    The fact that the spoiler is explicitly mentioned as being installed "after delivery" (on the configurator) further supports that they are not going to make any production line changes to accommodate Performance model than otherwise required for AWD.

    To be clear, I am not arguing the value of the Performance version one way or the other, just my thesis on the actual makeup of the car itself.

    Thoughts??
     
    • Like x 2
  10. Beckler

    Beckler Member

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    Let's see, is saving one's life by having the ability to jump out of the way of an oncoming 1/2-mile long freight train because of the extra acceleration in the performance version worth it? Just buy it. Everyone. Unless you like train impacts.
     
    • Funny x 6
  11. preilly44

    preilly44 Member

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    I ordered my P3 yesterday but I'm already having second thoughts about it's value for me (not a track guy, just like to accelerate fast). I currently have a P90DL but we're returning it in September (leased).

    I'm trying to convince myself that Tesla will do the right thing and offer more than just a spoiler, rims and software unlock for $20k but we'll see. I also keep telling myself that I'm helping a company grow by donating $20k :)
     
    • Like x 2
  12. rmmcdaniel

    rmmcdaniel Member

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    I wish I had the problem of having to make that decision! I am a current X owner (second one I have purchased) and day one reservation holder (online, not in-person) but config not open to me yet. It is giving me plenty of time to think about P or no P. Not sure where I will land.
     
  13. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Active Member

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    One thing I realized is that they don’t even need to upgrade the rear motor to go from 0-60 in 3.5s vs. 5.1s. You only need 46% more power to do that. All that power could be provided by the front motor no problem.
    An optimistic read would be that the rear motor does have more power but now it’s geared for higher top speed. A pessimistic read would be that the rear motor is exactly the same as the LR.
     
  14. rmmcdaniel

    rmmcdaniel Member

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    I'm not sure I would read it as pessimist vs optimistic and was not advocating one or the other. Part of me thinks it is awesome from a "managing the business, supply chain, and production" perspective if it is just a software tweak and all the hardware components are the same between AWD and P. It also begs whether Ludicrous is really in this Performance version or coming down the line thru additional software and/or hardware.
     
  15. crmatson

    crmatson Member

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    Struggling with this decision and a bit grateful that I can't configure yet.
    Hoping to hear more specifics as to any upgrades in brakes or suspension.

    To P, or not to P: that is the question:
    Whether ‘tis quicker in the quarter mile
    The slingshot acceleration is worth the outrageous fortune,
    Or to take a slower configuration against a sea of troubles...
     
    • Like x 2
    • Funny x 1
  16. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    One thing to keep in mind is that you will always yearn for the "P" if you don't buy it. Saving the money is one thing, but once you get used to your car's power, you almost always want more....at least for people who like fast cars.

    Same with wheels. Always spring for the better wheels. One time I cheaped-out and didn't get the better wheels. Every time I saw my car with the better wheels I was sorry I didn't do it.
     
  17. TheLocNar

    TheLocNar Member

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    Hoping the cat isn’t out of the bag just yet re: brakes and suspension. If there are upgraded parts for the P version, I’d think the extra $ would be worth it. As of right now, it doesn’t seem like this is the case.

    Those 20” wheels must be heavy too. I’d opt for better/lighter/less expensive aftermarket 19” wheels instead.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. juanmedina

    juanmedina Member

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    I think we are missing a lot of information. Hopefully Elon or someone will give us more information about the handling side of the car.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. WileyTheMan

    WileyTheMan Peanut Gallery Member

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    "Worth" is relative. Just like the P100D versions, they are for enthusiasts or people who can afford to drop that coin. It is not a practical car, so justifying the cost will never play out, regardless of the power/handling/bling.
     
  20. slipnslider

    slipnslider Member

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    Completely subjective question as to whether or not it's WORTH IT.

    How much money do you make? How much is disposable "fun money?"
    How often do you drive your car to its limits? How often would 4.5 sec 0-60 not be enough?
    How insecure are you and would having something slightly faster than other people offer a proportional increase to your self esteem?
     

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