PG&E discontinuing EV-A rate

[arnolddeleon]

@Musterion

As the new EV(A) rate schedule has a 800% over baseline limitation, I quickly calculated what that would equate to. Based on my being in Zone X with gas, the baseline is Summer =10.3KWH/day with Winter 10.5 KWH/day.

Overall baseline would roughly be 3,800 KWH / year. Thus, 800% of baseline would be 30,400 KWH / year. I think I am ok for now.

My primary heat source for the last 15 years has been an air source heat pump but my baselines are set for a house heated by natural gas. The furnace is a hybrid and it uses gas as a backup source. I need to find out if there is a process to get baseline changed. It wasn't obvious on a quick look but they clearly record the type of heat source.

OTH I see that I used a net of 5,300 kWh last year. My NET2MT bill is so complicated I think I will need to call PG&E to figure out my baseline usage but I'm guessing I'm pretty safe from the 800% of baseline.

 

[miimura]

My primary heat source for the last 15 years has been an air source heat pump but my baselines are set for a house heated by natural gas. The furnace is a hybrid and it uses gas as a backup source. I need to find out if there is a process to get baseline changed. It wasn't obvious on a quick look but they clearly record the type of heat source.

OTH I see that I used a net of 5,300 kWh last year. My NET2MT bill is so complicated I think I will need to call PG&E to figure out my baseline usage but I'm guessing I'm pretty safe from the 800% of baseline.

I don't think you can get an "All Electric" baseline unless you are completely without gas service. I only know of one person so adamant about fossil fuel usage that they went solar and converted everything to electric and had PG&E disconnect the gas meter. She was a 1st Gen RAV4 EV owner and one of the first to get the 2012 RAV4 EV and a 2012 Model S.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I don't think you can get an "All Electric" baseline unless you are completely without gas service. I only know of one person so adamant about fossil fuel usage that they went solar and converted everything to electric and had PG&E disconnect the gas meter. She was a 1st Gen RAV4 EV owner and one of the first to get the 2012 RAV4 EV and a 2012 Model S.

Ah, thanks. I have a guess on who that person would be, if I'm right she also had a 2011 LEAF.

 

[cwerdna]

Ah, thanks. I have a guess on who that person would be, if I'm right she also had a 2011 LEAF.

Ditto. I think we're thinking of the same person.

 

[Incredulocious]

I don't think you can get an "All Electric" baseline unless you are completely without gas service. I only know of one person so adamant about fossil fuel usage that they went solar and converted everything to electric and had PG&E disconnect the gas meter. She was a 1st Gen RAV4 EV owner and one of the first to get the 2012 RAV4 EV and a 2012 Model S.

I did something similar. Have converted everything off of propane to electric: clothes dryer, induction cooktop, water heater, heat pump (and keeping propane furnace backup disabled when possible), and of course EV’s: first 2011 LEAF, then 2013 RAV4 and eventually 2018 Model 3. (Plus occasional charging of my girlfriend’s RAV4 and now her Model 3.) Eliminated my propane usage and everything is still covered by my solar installation.

I was able to switch my PG&E baseline to “all electric” or rather “electric heating” (I think it was called) after getting the heat pump a few years ago. I’m still on E-6 but was recently automatically switched to Monterey Bay Community Power through that CCA (Community Choice Aggregation) system. That unfortunately reset my net metering true-up and hit me with a $300+ bill in the middle of winter that will never get counted towards my net metering – all other years I’ve had a slight positive true-up (never had to pay).

(As an aside, we’ve probably met at the old LEAF meetups in the south bay. I certainly recognize your username from the LEAF forum.)

 

[ClarDold]

@GenSao It seems like there is no point to orient solar panels to the west

I have some panels facing sorta south, and some facing sorta west, on a normal 5:12 pitch roof.
Using the PVWatts program, downloading the 5 minute intervals, I can see that my west facing panels were more productive for money than the south facing panels.
That is on EV-A. I would have to look at the new time slots for comparison.

Overall, E-6 was better than EV-A for me, but I don't drive much.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

It seems that the everybody will be affected by the 6-month to 4-month summer transition. Grandfathering apply to the TOU periods for the day, but seasonal can float around. Consider that when May 1st hit is when solar customers "instantly" build NEM credits at a fast rate. I definitely know that my undersized solar system has a $600-700 true-up bill. I predict a $1000 true-up when the 4-month summer kicks in.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I have some panels facing sorta south, and some facing sorta west, on a normal 5:12 pitch roof.
Using the PVWatts program, downloading the 5 minute intervals, I can see that my west facing panels were more productive for money than the south facing panels.

I think that was directed towards me. I am recanting my words about "west." My house faces SW, but multiple roof angles, it's a mess, just to squeeze 3-4 panels up on three sections of SW-ish roof would look like trash. I did remodel with PVWatts on the NNW vs. the ENE. The ENE had 1% more annual generation. When drilling down using 4-9pm, the difference is huge... >>100% calculated NEM credits... NNW wins by a landslide. When I did the analysis for 2-9PM, the ENE did better. My analysis only did a 2:1 difference in rates. Very surprised by the performance of a "northern" roof. The 40deg west makes a huge difference with the shift from a peak window from 2pm to 4pm. I am on the toe of a large hill to the east. Certainly PVWatts didn't account for the hill.

 

[ClarDold]

multiple roof angles, it's a mess, just to squeeze 3-4 panels up on three sections of SW-ish roof would look like trash.
Very surprised by the performance of a "northern" roof.
Certainly PVWatts didn't account for the hill.

My last house had a covered walkway to a detached garage. 33 panels on a flat face, at what happened to be the optimum for E-7, 217°.
This house has 13 panels at 156° and triple that space at 246°, but only three panels, because that wasn't optimum for production.
There isn't a lot of difference based on orientation, only 4% in 90°, more than offset by the TOU.
Per Panel, Wh in one year, $ in EV-A Rates
156°, 383436, $102.40
246°, 367573, $108.66

Yankee-Solar-Panels.jpg The previous house, flat run, optimum orientation for money.
Dropbox - Install_Day.jpg - Simplify your life The current house, chopped up south-facing roof.

 

[Musterion]

I need to find out if there is a process to get baseline changed. It wasn't obvious on a quick look but they clearly record the type of heat source.

I called them, for my Mom, and got switched over without any hassle. They just want to see a permanently installed electric heat source. I also learned that if you have building connected to separate electric meter but without ANY heat source and without any hookup to gas/propane (like a barn, workshop, etc.), only electric hookup, they will not allow that to be on “all-electric” and it defaults to the smaller electric baseline as if it were gas heated. I argued about that but they would not change it.

I don't think you can get an "All Electric" baseline unless you are completely without gas service.

That may be true if you buy natural gas from PG&E, but I can confirm not true for those of us in remote locations with only propane as optional combustible gas source.

I’m still on E-6 but was recently automatically switched to Monterey Bay Community Power through that CCA (Community Choice Aggregation) system. That unfortunately reset my net metering true-up and hit me with a $300+ bill in the middle of winter that will never get counted towards my net metering – all other years I’ve had a slight positive true-up (never had to pay).

I was lucky to not throw out the small postcard announcing the default opt-in for CCA MBCP. I read the documents and looked at their spartan site, read that their CEO had some prior compensation controversy, and called them up to ask a bunch of questions. The person I talked to was nice but couldn’t answer most of my questions, saying that they were brand new and learning some of the details themselves. I was concerned about grandfathering rules, NEM1, true-up, future rate eligibility (since only current rates tied to PG&E), etc. The one thing I learned for sure is they said I would get a forced true-up on some boundary they specified, different than my normal date. The only benefit I saw, besides getting power from someone else besides PG&E, was that they pay a much higher rate than PG&E’s wholesale rate for excess generation beyond zero true-up threshold. I decided it was safer to proactively opt-out at the time and let others test it out and get feedback from them (and you). I was worried about the cost of premature true-up and also future plans/rates since I was trying to get Powerwall installation finished. Let me know how it worked out for you in terms of CCA rebate and bulk buyback of surplus generation. You can DM me if you want. Thanks!

 

[miimura]

The CCA for most of Santa Clara county, SVCE, normally would only move solar customers over after their current true-up had completed. I voluntarily moved my true-up to the Summer so that I would start out with credit balances. With SVCE, any time you have a balance owed, it gets pushed onto your blue PG&E bill for payment. Only credit balances carry over to subsequent months. They only pay out credit balances at true up if they are greater than $200 unless you request it. They do pay out generation credit balances even if you are a net kWh consumer, unlike PG&E.
The Powerwall PTO also triggered another true-up.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

@miimura Okay, I just fired up an created a smart spreadsheet...

$640 true-up this month (model matches PG&E within $3 within .46% accuracy simply not accounting for DST shift and holidays.)

Drum roll... solar true up is:

$1320. 100% increase predicted true up under 4-mo summer, new TOU windows, using today's rates. Note only 5% contribution from the 4-mo summer shift. Whew, thankful for grandfathering.

Solar only is dead under new proposed EV-A... modeling with PW operation will be too difficult. All-in-all the $1320 is pretty much within ALL the offered rate plans for me. E-1, ETOU(A), ETOU(B), and the PROPOSED EV-A annual costs comes out the same (within $60 of each other!). What's the point in all this!

 

[miimura]

If you have only had your Powerwalls for 30 days, PG&E will recalculate your true-up and terminate it at your Powerwall PTO date. They will start a new True-Up cycle on NEMMT as of your Powerwall PTO. Expect this to take 60-90 days from PTO for everything to be recalculated and adjustments posted to your blue bill.

I am not at all surprised by your calculation. I think the dominant factor is the Off-Peak going until 3pm. That seriously devalues a majority of people's solar generation from Part-Peak value to Off-Peak value.

 

[Ulmo]

I called them, for my Mom, and got switched over without any hassle.

I decided it was safer to proactively opt-out at the time and let others test it out and get feedback from them (and you).

I think my plan for now is to be on the other side of that fence and report experience with the tricounty agency, and switch back to PG&E if it makes sense. At least this way, I won't have to keep switching once I learn which one I want. But I still don't know what's going to happen with my true-up; if it's a lot, I might have them go retroactively switch it back to the regular period (and I might have to push for that if that comes up), but for now, I don't know that it will matter for me.

PGE will not accept new signups for EV-A rate starting July 1st. Anybody know what the replacement rate plan will be?

Anyone on the EV-A plan with solar. Is it worth it to switch to EV-A before it is discontinued to be grandfathered? How long is the grandfathering?

Wait: does that affect anybody who was shoved into the alternate providers? I'll have to research this now.

They seem to have an "EV" rate plan for all prior EV-A and EV-B customers: https://www.mbcommunitypower.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MBCP-Res-Rate-Sheet-v6.1-FINAL-May-7-2019.pdf

HA, @GenSao just beat me to it. On the same site, PG&E's "Final Decision" Rates, Part 1: Residential Rates, the webinar has more info on the grandfathering. First I believe one big change not mentioned above is that EV-A will open to storage customers as well (with no electrical vehicle) and enrollment will be capped to 30,000. Then there is the shift in the peak timing, etc. The date of grandfathering (for time periods) quoted is 5 years after PTO and not exceeding July 31, 2022. I believe that matches expiration of E6. Except E6 goes away and you get put on TOU, and EV-A remains and you would transition to new time periods and rules. There is also a new rule that if you exceed 800% baseline, you get kicked out of EV-A and onto TOU and cannot attempt to rejoin EV-A for 12 months. Good time to check your baseline — you may find it surprisingly small...

OMG:
Baseline Allowance

I'm in T. My commute made me use 80kWh on many days. Here's the data: Baseline for T in "TIME-OF-USE" measured in kWh per day is 6.8 in summer and 8.2 in winter, unless I switch to all-electric, in which case it is 7.5 in summer and 13.6 in winter. 80kWh is way over 8x baseline; 8x summer baseline is 54.4kWh per day. Just sitting at home not even using a car I average over half of the "baseline" for my area. I wonder if the new regional CCA has a "baseline" electric limit for their EV plan.
View attachment 415291 View attachment 415292

@Musterion

As the new EV(A) rate schedule has a 800% over baseline limitation, I quickly calculated what that would equate to. Based on my being in Zone X with gas, the baseline is Summer =10.3KWH/day with Winter 10.5 KWH/day.

Overall baseline would roughly be 3,800 KWH / year. Thus, 800% of baseline would be 30,400 KWH / year. I think I am ok for now.

It's measured per year? That would be less problematic.


I want to call MBCP and ask them a few things:

1. Is their summer period changing for EV?
2. Are they grandfathering EV like PG&E is?
3. Are they implementing a new 800% of baseline like PG&E is?

Any other questions?

---

Honestly, this is why I said they should stop using utilities as a way to redistribute wealth with these millions of rates; they should get rid of all this ratepayer stuff and put us all on the open market and let us bid for each home all day long. Poor people could turn off use whenever rates got high. Middle income people wanting to make money could sell into the grid whenever the rates got high. Supply and demand would bring down prices and encourage people to move to areas and install equipment that fit their needs rather than having some of us subsidize others who made bad choices.

 

[Nosken]

Here is an iPhone app the uses your account to show the effects of each rate plan. My PG&E Toolkit Lite by Ndili Technologies, Inc.
‎My PG&E Toolkit Lite

 

[GenSao]

Wait: does that affect anybody who was shoved into the alternate providers? I'll have to research this now.

This is with PG&E for now. Though I can imagine the rates/limitations will filter to alternate providers.

It's measured per year? That would be less problematic.

Per Page 8 of the CPUC settlement with PG&E: "EV customers cannot exceed 800 percent of their average annual baseline allowance, measured as the total usage for the customer over the last 12 months divided by the total annual baseline allowance using the then current approved baseline quantities."

I would think it is a monthly check of your rolling past 12 month energy use compared to the total annual baseline allowance. Alternatively, PG&E could compare base rates on a month to month period like the E-1 rate schedule or once a year at your true-up.

 

[Ulmo]

This is with PG&E for now. Though I can imagine the rates/limitations will filter to alternate providers.



Per Page 8 of the CPUC settlement with PG&E: "EV customers cannot exceed 800 percent of their average annual baseline allowance, measured as the total usage for the customer over the last 12 months divided by the total annual baseline allowance using the then current approved baseline quantities."

I would think it is a monthly check of your rolling past 12 month energy use compared to the total annual baseline allowance. Alternatively, PG&E could compare base rates on a month to month period like the E-1 rate schedule or once a year at your true-up.

Thank you.

 

[Ulmo]

Here is an iPhone app the uses your account to show the effects of each rate plan. My PG&E Toolkit Lite by Ndili Technologies, Inc.
‎My PG&E Toolkit Lite

I love that app. I'd assume it can't keep up with all these new regional rate plans and rules, but I may be surprised.

 

[Ulmo]

I want to call MBCP and ask them a few things

I called, and they claim they mirror every one of PG&E's rate plans, including any changes, including rules, grandfathering, overlimits (the 800% of baseline with a 12 month penalty), etc., everything. That's what I was told verbally.

 

[miimura]

I called, and they claim they mirror every one of PG&E's rate plans, including any changes, including rules, grandfathering, overlimits (the 800% of baseline with a 12 month penalty), etc., everything. That's what I was told verbally.

That is my experience with Silicon Valley Clean Energy too. I think CCAs are genuinely trying to look after their constituents. Today, they are only able to fractionally save money over PG&E's rates while providing carbon free power, but if they can convince the CPUC to revamp and eventually eliminate the PCIA then the CCA's will really be able to do something significant to stop the upward march on rates. If regulators and judges allow PG&E to cancel renewable power contracts in bankruptcy without also canceling fossil power contracts, I will be super pissed. IMHO, renewables should be given priority and fossil plants should be forced to curtail when there is surplus. With existing fossil power contracts that will never happen.