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PG&E rates?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by geometro, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. geometro

    geometro Member

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    not sure if they could make it more confusing than they have already.... going with EV-A leads to high TOU rates for our daily activities.

    Has anyone not gone with EV-A and stayed with their E-1 plan?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    I actually sat down and did a hell of a lot of math and determined I was definitely wayyyyy better off with the EV-A plan because it incentivizes having me shift things like running the dishwasher and dryer to start right before I go to sleep, and means I'm less nervous about brutal AC bills this summer for wanting to have the bedroom nice and cold once it gets warm out.
     
  3. hmmm

    hmmm Member

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    It will, of course, depend on your own usage pattern, but I think most people find EV-A beneficial overall.

    I had an old E-6 plan (which was both tiered and TOU, talk about messy...) and it ended being better for me.
    '
    One key variable is whether you have AC or not as the rate increase during the day may be a swing factor. You could stay on your current plan for a couple of months and then use that data to map it to the EV-A plan to see how things would have been. That may involve a bit of excel work though. There are a couple of excel models linked in the thread below:

    PGE Rates comparison tool? (E-6 vs EV-A)
     
    • Informative x 1
  4. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    Can you install PV solar, and maybe a Powerwall?
     
  5. wwu123

    wwu123 Member

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    If you've been on PG&E already for a while, and have your EV for a while, then PG&E already does a historic rate comparison for you on their site, so no need to do Excel modeling. There's also an iOS app called My PG&E Toolkit that does similar by pulling your historc data from PG&E.

    Neither will model what-if behavioral changes though such as load time-shifting or buying a new EV.

    For me, grandfathered E-6 is by far the cheapest, E-1 is almost 2nd best so the other rates dont provide benefit much if at all.
     
  6. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure This All Out

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    The only way to do this would be to install a separate panel and meter. One for EV-A (the car) and the other for your home.

    Depending on your connection that may not be too expensive. I was going to do that when I had and E7 plan but they discontinued it so we just changed our lifestyle.

    BTW IMHO think in the not too distant future (~5 years?) you may find that all EV's will be measured on a separate sub meter and you won't be able to get the EV-A rate for your entire dwelling. They have been experimenting with this for a number of years. But at the rate utilities change things it's probably more like 20 years;).
     
  7. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Active Member

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    EV-A is best.

    EV-A with solar with net metering 1.0 is amazing. They're buying my power at sky high rates during the day and I'm buying it back at night for peanuts. This is where PG&Es rates bite them in the butt big time.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. geometro

    geometro Member

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    This makes sense. I don’t have solar yet, but that does seem to be a great combination.

    I’ve gotten quotes from SunRun and Tesla but still need to work through the details a bit more and decide if I want to spend the money now.

    PG&E let’s us switch rate plans 2x per year so I moved us over to EV-A last night, as we were already getting pushed into Tier 3 prior to the Model 3 joining us.
     
  9. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Technically, if you have the EV rate on a separate meter it's the EV-B rate. EV-A is the whole home EV rate. The Sub-Metering Trials are billed on EV-B and the kWh usage is subtracted from your main meter, usually E-1 but could be E-6 or E-TOU.

    If you charge an EV overnight, you will probably pay less on EV-A than E-1 unless you live somewhere that requires a lot of Summer A/C. With Solar my bill was much less on EV-A than E-6. Now, with Powerwalls maximizing my solar export during Peak periods, EV-A is even better.
     
  10. Nosken

    Nosken Member

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  11. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    I would love to have this with my current supplier, Liberty Utilities (a small electric company that serves Lake Tahoe) but they don't allow net metering and time of use when you have solar PV. I guess they have figured out that this would work against their profit.
     
  12. wws

    wws Member

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    We are on E-6 right now, having been forced to it from E-7. (We had been on E-7 since we bought our house in the early ‘90s thanks to the previous owner who ran a kiln as a hobby. It has saved us thousands of dollars over the years.). We also have 6.28kw of net-metered solar. On weekdays, E-6 switches to off-peak at 9 PM whereas EV-A off-peak starts at 11 PM. For the past year or more, I’ve set our Volt to start charging at 11 PM to make comparisons easier. According to the PG&E calculator I can save about $50/year by switching to EV-A. When I get my Model 3, making us a two-plugin family, there will be even greater savings. This is due to the huge off-peak rate difference between E-6 and EV-A ($0.17-something vs $0.12-something per kWh.)
     
  13. wwu123

    wwu123 Member

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    Two things you're probably already aware, but others may want to factor in:
    -if you switch off E-6, you can never switch back later. Presently E-6 is only for grandfathered users.
    -both E-6 and EV-A will be shiftng their peak periods later starting in 2020. Mostly impacts the solar net-metering.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. wws

    wws Member

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    E-6 is going to disappear in 2022 in any event.

    California is to the point where there is so much solar, both at the grid level and behind the meter, that peak rate periods really do need to shift into the evening. It is easy to predict that at some point in the future it may become cheaper to charge your car in the middle of the day than in the middle of the night.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    He will immediately save money by changing to EV-A and the savings will only get bigger with the second EV. There is no reason to cling on to E-6. I had the same feelings about E-9A to EV-A, but I realized that I would eventually be kicked off, so better lock in the savings sooner.
     
  16. CameronB

    CameronB Member

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    Have EV-A and agree with @run-the-joules that by shifting some previous "anytime" usage like washing clothes and dishwashing to after 11pm, resulted relatively small-to-no net charge increase. Sometimes it is even less which means we charge the Tesla "for free" sorta kinda.

    But basically we pay about the same as we used to pay monthly pre-Tesla, even though we are using almost twice as much electricity.

    For example, here is our bill for March 2017 (pre Tesla, pre-EVA rate) with March 2018 bill.

    March 2017.png March 2018.png
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure This All Out

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    As is point out above those on the coast can do EV-A for everything. Those who live interior and have Heat Pumps or AC for summer cooling had better do some serious calculations and/or change their lifestyle on EV-A vs E6. We did it but there is lots of complaining at various times. We even have a litte chart on the fridge on when its good/vs bad.
     
  18. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    Ain't that the truth. My wife and I will not do our laundry at 1:00 AM. We won't run the AC during the night with the house sealed up to chill it down to 65 degrees. I do not delay baking our bread until the weekends.

    So, we have stayed on the plain-vanilla tiered rate structure. Our annual true-up is quite reasonable (<$400).
     
  19. TapHabit

    TapHabit Member

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    I’m wondering what practical, in terms of actual money savings, anyone’s had from buying a Tesla in 2018, enrolling in one of pg&e’s EV programs (I’d charge my car at night). This is a house without any solar panels or having pg&e come out and install their own meter/charger for the car. Just a regular house, with a 2015 85d purchased this week.

    If anyone has a similar situation, how much less is your power bill on average compared to before you bought your car and enrolled in their EV program? 30% less? 20% less? If your bill was normally $100 (let’s say) would your bill be around $70?

    I’ve seen all the rates and programs, just curious to hear anyone’s actual saving numbers. My house is rather large and is in the tier 2 usage billing usually. Sometimes tier 3 in the summer. I’d love to hear anyone’s else’s story about what is actually reflected on the monthly bill in terms of dollars from before they were in the EV program and after the enrolled this year.
     
  20. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    PG&E Toolkit (now $8, was $5 when I first bought it) was well worth it. I saved hundreds of dollars. Try it out:

    ‎My PG&E Toolkit

    I didn't get the cloud storage options, and I don't think I needed them. They may have changed how it works; try without.
     

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