Me too. It is fine that they are working to push the limits of what can be done with cameras an neural net processors, and I want them to continue, but give us the option to use basic CC in situations where TACC is operating in an unsafe manner.
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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
I agree. That article is just alarmist and a bit ridiculous. Comes off as click bait for sure.
I wouldn’t tell anyone don’t buy the MY or any other Tesla because of this issue since Tesla will fix this problem. Tesla is still the safest car on the road. (Though I will tell people don’t buy early MS and MX because of quality and reliability.)
But we can’t gloss over the issue because it is very real and pretty dangerous. I’m coming up on my 5th Tesla. I know how autopilot has evolved… and this was an unnecessary regression in capability. It’s a flaw. It has happened to me on 4 lane highways in conditions where I couldn’t even rationalize why. And btw, the phantom braking also happens with the cruise control (TACC)… not autopilot with lane keep.
OxBrew
Active Member
what are you talking about? It happens with AP/Lane keep all the time. (non-FSD)
I said it ALSO happens with [just] the TACC engaged. Not just the full ap with lane keep.
Perhaps I could have been clearer but it was a continuation of the thread.
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OxBrew
Active Member
Ah, I get it now. Yeah so PB happens with:
TACC - yes
Auto pilot (non FSD) -yes
FSD/autopilot? -I don't know.
TACC - yes
Auto pilot (non FSD) -yes
FSD/autopilot? -I don't know.
Shortly before we sold our Y it braked so hard on an open highway the truck behind my wife had to leave the side of the highway to miss her. The kids booster seats slammed against the driver and passenger seats. Thankfully they weren't in the car. Understandably my wife was very upset as this was the 2nd time this happened. This is on top of the daily 5-15mph behavior the videos in this thread have shown. I can't in good conscience recommend these radarless cars to anyone I know until the issue is fixed. Tesla isn't being transparent about the behavior and drawbacks of the vision based system, rather just putting it out there and letting us customers deal with it.
I'm skeptical they will get this fixed anytime soon. They surely would have already if they could. Frankly I'm tired of Tesla promising functionality and not delivering it. The easiest fix is just to allow radarless customers to get radars put back into their cars.
I just came back from a 1000 mile weekend road trip. The only way for me to not have my Model Y brakes slammed on me on a two way 1 lane each secondary highway every time a truck passed by me in it's lane was to anticipate and press on the accelerator until the truck had passed.
Just about ready to beg Tesla to downgrade me back to the stock delivery firmware that had next to ZERO phantom braking. It was even better than my 2.5 year old Model 3 with radar. Having to drive without any cruise control and forget about AP when family is aboard REALY SUCKS ELON.
Just about ready to beg Tesla to downgrade me back to the stock delivery firmware that had next to ZERO phantom braking. It was even better than my 2.5 year old Model 3 with radar. Having to drive without any cruise control and forget about AP when family is aboard REALY SUCKS ELON.
OK, feel free to pile on. Maybe we get somewhere.
Hey drtimihill,
I did not use AP on the 2 lane country roads. Only TACC. From everything I have read here, it sounds like if you haven't tried this in a non-Radar MYLR, unfortunately you just don't know what we are talking about or experiencing. An option for just basic CC would be useful for these country roads.
Here's hoping that some of the FSD Beta 10.6 improvements trickle down to AP...
Tha_Ape
Active Member
There are some people commenting on VO phantom braking that don't even have a VO car.
I've seen a few commenters in here that don't have VO cars commenting on VO issues.
dduffey
Member
I have a radar equipped M3 AWD, but also (now) have FSD beta, which means the radar is no longer used and I have VO, therefore I have experienced BOTH radar and non-radar (VO) AP. This is true for others in the FSD beta also (who have older cars with radar).
I rarely, if ever, experienced phantom braking on freeways with radar, and that has not changed when I switched to VO, driving the same routes (the FSD stack is not involved in freeway driving at present, and so is not a variable here). Of course, this may just mean that the routes/roads I drive are not such as to trigger PB, but I certainly did not see an increase with VO, which I think would have been apparent since I had almost zero events with radar. What this means as a data point in understanding PB I dont know, but that's my experience.
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Tha_Ape
Active Member
Adding basic fixed-speed CC in the car in addition to ACC/TACC seems like the obvious immediate solution. That should be a permanent feature, no matter how much better TACC gets. I actually didn't realize until I bought my Model 3 that it *doesn't* have a way to enable basic CC, I assumed that every car with ACC (not just Teslas) would still have a way to use basic CC.
I've used TACC in Model S loaners over the years, AP1 and AP2, and it always worked well enough that I never went looking for basic CC, I just assumed (wrongly) it was there. I never took those loaners on the kind of straight, empty two-lane country roads that sound worst for VO TACC, but I would have naturally gone looking for basic CC if I had, it never occurred to me to use ACC/TACC on two lane roads...but it also never occurred to me that basic CC would be absent.
If Tesla insists that basic CC isn't needed then they damn well better make (VO) TACC work reliably on all roads. I would be fine with just using basic CC for two-lane / non-divided roads though!
@jama999 The wording in that petition sounds almost like it's asking for basic CC to temporarily replace VO TACC. I wouldn't want that at all, most of my CC use is on divded highways and while VO TACC is definitely less smooth than most any radar-based ACC/TACC I've used, it's still usable and worthwhile over basic CC.
Btw my radarless S NEVER phantom brakes
I've used TACC in Model S loaners over the years, AP1 and AP2, and it always worked well enough that I never went looking for basic CC, I just assumed (wrongly) it was there. I never took those loaners on the kind of straight, empty two-lane country roads that sound worst for VO TACC, but I would have naturally gone looking for basic CC if I had, it never occurred to me to use ACC/TACC on two lane roads...but it also never occurred to me that basic CC would be absent.
If Tesla insists that basic CC isn't needed then they damn well better make (VO) TACC work reliably on all roads. I would be fine with just using basic CC for two-lane / non-divided roads though!
@jama999 The wording in that petition sounds almost like it's asking for basic CC to temporarily replace VO TACC. I wouldn't want that at all, most of my CC use is on divded highways and while VO TACC is definitely less smooth than most any radar-based ACC/TACC I've used, it's still usable and worthwhile over basic CC.
Btw my radarless S NEVER phantom brakes
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