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Phantom Braking
- Thread starter john and pat
- Start date
gcmak
Member
This started happening more with recent updates. It was mostly gone for quite a few versions of the software. I haven't driven enough recently after getting 12.11 to see if it's gone. I know 12.16 is rolling out now...here's to hoping the arguably dangerous behavior, has been resolved.
were any vehicles at your sides? Mine started slamming on the breaks during autopilot if I am passing someone and they are on my right. It does this completely randomly, a few times each trip on the interstate. Going into the shop this week for it; it started doing it right after the last update, so I'm guessing it's the cameras or sensors.
One thing to watch for, is watch the center speed sign for auto pilot. I'm in Vegas, and on i-15 here (strange coincidence lol) the speed will drop form 70 to 55 instantly, then go back up, but autopilot won't raise the speed back. That always happens in the same 2 or 3 spots though. Does yours happen in the same spots, or is it random?
One thing to watch for, is watch the center speed sign for auto pilot. I'm in Vegas, and on i-15 here (strange coincidence lol) the speed will drop form 70 to 55 instantly, then go back up, but autopilot won't raise the speed back. That always happens in the same 2 or 3 spots though. Does yours happen in the same spots, or is it random?
Puddles
Member
I was going to start a thread about this, but since you've brought it up, I'll carry on here.
I completely agree. Over the last 2-3 months I have been very happy with the braking, speed modulation, and lane changing. It was getting almost spooky how clever the car was at picking a good spot to merge into. It would wait, select a sensible break in traffic, and accelerate very smoothly into the new position. Phantom braking was minimal.
But ever since 12.11, and I'd say the previous release too, we have all sorts of phantom braking again. Additionally, the merging has reverted to the horrible previous pattern of waiting until upcoming traffic is right off the left rear quarter to start signalling, and no matter that there are three cars stacked up back there with a clear zone behind. Once we do blunder our way into the "faster" lane, acceleration is very lazy. Previously, it felt like acceleration into a passing lane was snappy if there was traffic close behind, and smoother if there wasn't.
But wait, there's more. Suddenly the car insists on initiating the lane change, into crowded traffic, which is traveling 5+ mph faster than we are, if we are only 2 mph below our set point! If Tesla is going to have the car attempt to pass traffic going barely slower than us, they need to give the car the ability to briefly exceed the set point to complete the pass in a reasonable amount of time. Which brings me to "Changing out of passing lane". Where did it go.
This phantom problem is my biggest issue with this car, especially because EVERY other car I have owned, in all price ranges, gets cruise control right. Maintain the speed I set myself. I have learned where I experience this issue (where the freeway reaches a crest or where traffic merges on a bend and it thinks the traffic in the next lane is in front of me) and am not surprised when it happens. Then there are the times when it does it randomly brake though, and those are the most troublesome episodes, at least once per 20+ mile drive. You are not alone. If I sell this car (after owning it for five months now), it will be because of this issue. I fully understand all the Tesla benefits, that's why I bought the car, but this is a safety issue that is happening way too frequently.
Elon tweeted that they'll be able to read signs soon which should eliminate most of the phantom braking. Then there's the much spoken about rewrite of the code that should allow for a better 360 perspective and object labeling. This 'should' help with other scenarios posted here, like slowing down at merge lanes (although that may not be a bad thing in of itself), or braking for adjacent vehicles etc. Quite a lot of 'shoulds' and speculation in my post, but my crystal ball sees good things ahead.
One thing I'll say about 11.1. It seems that when it does phantom brake, it's more subtle than before. I remember more abrupt braking a few versions ago. Now, I haven't driven enough recently to be sure of any of this, so take it with a grain of salt.
One thing I'll say about 11.1. It seems that when it does phantom brake, it's more subtle than before. I remember more abrupt braking a few versions ago. Now, I haven't driven enough recently to be sure of any of this, so take it with a grain of salt.
As an update to my situation, I sent them dashcam footage and date/time logs so they can review data on the car and they initially told me what I was experiencing was a "feature of autopilot" .. Like WTF? A feature of autopilot is to randomly slam on the brakes when no hazards are nearby? Anyways, we cancelled that appointment, and the next day I went out and recorded the screen and the road with my camera in 4k resolution, in one shot so they could see everything + the dashcam footage, and sure as *sugar* nothing nearby going 85, car slams on the brakes for no reason. Sent the same tech a copy of the video and he said 'yeah we need to send someone out to recalibrate your radar'. tried to tell them 2 weeks ago, not sure why they were so set on not following through with the appointment initially.
They're coming out to recalibrate it next week.
gcmak
Member
good luck to you. hope you chime back in with an update. personally skeptical of such a calibration helping but hoping to be proven wrong.
Did the recalibrate fix the problem? I have had the problem of Phantom or panic braking since I got my car last October. They have told me that future software updates would take care of it. I'm still waiting.
They're scheduled to be out on the 26th. The jacked up thing is they contacted me again yesterday and said the same thing - 'your system looks fine from our side, do you want to cancel the appointment?' no motherfskr I don't want to cancel the appointment, you already did this BS once already.
SalisburySam
Active Member
No, there is not a fix, at least not for me. My July 2018 LR RWD EAP/FSD and now HW3.0 Model 3 did not have phantom braking when I first got it on firmware 2018.24.8. The very next update gave it to me in spades, and I have had the annoyance since. It has gotten substantively worse in 2020.12.11.1, my current firmware.
About all you can do is one or more of the following:
1- submit a verbal bug report each and every time. See the manual on how to do this.
2- always have right foot hovering over the accelerator pedal for when it happens. Very annoying and stressful.
3- be sure to brief your passengers about what this is and that it may happen, and restrain your dogs.
4- don’t use TACC (I rarely use it anymore, and then only when alone).
5- pray this will be fixed, but don’t expect much. Again, this has been an issue for me for almost two years now.
6- keep your sensors clean, including the 8 cameras, 12 ultrasonics, and front bumper radar.
Good luck, and keep hounding Tesla about this. Maybe after all the real estate is sold and X AE A-12 finally sleeps through the night, Elon will grace us with a solution.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
My take: You’re wasting your time. If I were a betting man I’d say there’s a 0% chance any radar calibration resolves this long ongoing issue.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
All this does is bookmark/save some logs locally on your car.
Nobody back at Tesla sees this, unless you submit a service request- then your service center can remotely check it to try and diagnose the problem you opened the service request for.
Otherwise it's a useless waste of time.
Let's hope you're right, and the Tesla person that told him he needs to have his radar recalibrated is talking out of his *ss, like many Tesla employee do. I had one service guy tell me that my Model 3 should recenter its own steering wheel after a couple of hundred miles of driving. That was a major facepalm moment for me. FYI, you fix M3 steering wheel centering like every other car - by adjusting the tie rods.
Can you imagine driving around in a world with FSD Model 3's driving themselves to go pick up a RoboTaxi customer, and a sensor just happens to get out of calibration so it just plows through a crowd of people or into your car and killing your entire family??
If that employee is right about his Model 3 needing to have its radar recalibrated to fix AP, then FSD needs to be banned by all governments now.
lampcord
Member
I have started noticing phantom braking back for mine since the last update I received (2020.12.11.1)
In addition the braking for stop signs is now having issues. Stopping WAY too early. Like as much as 2 car lengths. It is also kind of stabbing the brakes as it stops instead of stopping smoothly. Almost behaving as if it isn't sure how far away the stop sign is. The previous update did not seem to have this problem.
Not sure if the two issues are related.
Meanwhile the stop light recognition seems just fine. Stopping smoothly at the right spot. Picking the lane back up on the other side.
So for now, I don't even use AP or CC on back streets. Only on secondary streets with traffic lights and hiway.
In addition the braking for stop signs is now having issues. Stopping WAY too early. Like as much as 2 car lengths. It is also kind of stabbing the brakes as it stops instead of stopping smoothly. Almost behaving as if it isn't sure how far away the stop sign is. The previous update did not seem to have this problem.
Not sure if the two issues are related.
Meanwhile the stop light recognition seems just fine. Stopping smoothly at the right spot. Picking the lane back up on the other side.
So for now, I don't even use AP or CC on back streets. Only on secondary streets with traffic lights and hiway.
SaloonGoon
2020 PD3+ 2021 PDY 2019 AUDI R8P
It’s only happened to me once and there happened to be a CLA on my ass. I got a dirty look as they went by lol.
Wanted to post an update with my situation.
Tesla tech came out yesterday to the house took the car out and recalibrated the cameras. I drove it about a hundred miles yesterday to get everything back to normal, didn't see any issues. took it out again today drove another hundred miles on the same road that The braking happens to me all the time on, and had zero incidents. It's still only one day in, but it's the first time I've driven on the interstate for months that it didn't do phantom breaking at least once.
So there's a potential that it actually just needed recalibrated
Tesla tech came out yesterday to the house took the car out and recalibrated the cameras. I drove it about a hundred miles yesterday to get everything back to normal, didn't see any issues. took it out again today drove another hundred miles on the same road that The braking happens to me all the time on, and had zero incidents. It's still only one day in, but it's the first time I've driven on the interstate for months that it didn't do phantom breaking at least once.
So there's a potential that it actually just needed recalibrated
Disturbing. If it did fix it, that means Tesla designed and programmed a self-driving system that can't tell whether it's safe for the road or not. I hope SpaceX doesn't things differently for the sake of NASA astronauts and their families.
Like almost all automation, it faults on the side of safety. Have you heard of a single instance where it picks up phantom vehicles and goes full throttle?
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