Phone as Key Issues

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla should provide an optional FOB for model 3.

The issue here is NOT Tesla's SW or bluetooth. It is about how the bluetooth implementation works on both Android and iPhones. The phone needs to save power, so they do NOT have the bluetooth radio advertising all the time its presence. It is dynamically managed by the OS in the phone and it decides when to broadcast the bluetooth services of the phone that are to be received by any other BT device. The car's BT radio is always on scanning to see if a known BT advertiser (your phone) is around and then unlock the car.

This varies from phone to phone and from OS to OS on both Android and iOS, to give you an example sometimes on iOS there can be lapses of 30s or more with the BT radio not advertising its ID making it impossible for the car to detect the presence.

I have developed bluetooth proximity applications in the past and i am familiar with the power policies of BT in the phones and how it impacts ANY BT proximity applications, it is documented on both Android and iOS developer guides.

As the battery of your phone gets lower the power management policies become more aggressive and bluetooth is not advertising for longer periods of time. (the same behavior is seen on BT door locks for example)

Tesla knows this, and still they chose to use this as the primary method to unlock the vehicle due to conveniency.

From an App development perspective you can't override the phone OS bluetooth power policy when the App enters background. When it is on the foreground (app open) your car will unlock easier (because the App now has full control of the BT radio on the phone and can start BT advertising right away) but when the phone is in your pocket (App in background mode) the phone OS takes control of the BT radio and has to arbitrate the use of the BT advertising of all the services requested by all BT apps in your phone (Tesla app being just one of them). This is how phone OSs work so you do not burn battery as BT will be advertising its ID too often.

So, give us the option of an FOB like in the model S. Also heard phone auto unlock is coming on Model S at some point, hopefully the other way around comes first

Thank feli for writing this post

That's not how Bluetooth works. Some phones do that but not all. What developer guides are you referring to?

 

[cellogig]

That's not how Bluetooth works. Some phones do that but not all. What developer guides are you referring to?

Feli guidelines

He posted this on a couple of other threads and I posted it here. Seems to make sense to me. Are there holes in his post, is it debatable and is there value to it?Sure. It’s an opinion and facts that have not been posted recently that make sense. I do not know. Is it a perfect post to solve all problems we are having with the phone key. I am sure you do not agree.

But you do agree with some of facts above in his post. You state some phones. So my question for you is, what phones does he refer too.

If you are trying to make go away by finding faults with my posts. Example the 16 yr daughter- old post....It is not happening. phone key does not work! Say it with me. I hope it haughts you

 

[RTPEV]

Tesla knows this, and still they chose to use this as the primary method to unlock the vehicle due to conveniency.

It seems to me that Tesla (and most likely Elon himself) had a vision that the Model 3 would be completely autonomous and you could rent out your vehicle autonomously. And in order to give access to the car without a key, and prevent access to private areas of the car like the glove box and frunk, etc, they had to implement a "phone as key" solution and not provide physical buttons for anything.

Now that's great if they provide a keyless/fobless solution to enable such a thing, but (a) realistically that's at least 5 years away and (b) it doesn't preclude having a fob as well.

This really is the Model 3's falcon wing doors. Technology for technology's sake. Should have kept it simple and moved to this kind of system only if/when it made sense to.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Feli guidelines

He posted this on a couple of other threads and I posted it here. Seems to make sense to me. Are there holes in his post, is it debatable and is there value to it?Sure. It’s an opinion and facts that have not been posted recently that make sense. I do not know. Is it a perfect post to solve all problems we are having with the phone key. I am sure you do not agree.

But you do agree with some of facts above in his post. You state some phones. So my question for you is, what phones does he refer too.

If you are trying to make go away by finding faults with my posts. Example the 16 yr daughter- old post....It is not happening. phone key does not work! Say it with me. I hope it haughts you

I don't understand what you are saying. We have a language barrier. No problems.

 

[RDaneel]

I appreciate all the good info in this thread. Is there a summary anywhere? I can't read all 33 pages right now...

Just got my 3 a few days ago. Half the time the car does not let me in with my cell in my pocket until I manually open the Tesla app. Also about 25% of the time I want to drive the car it tells me I have to scan the keycard, even when I used the phone key to enter the vehicle. Any ideas as to what is going on? My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1.

 

[slipnslider]

I appreciate all the good info in this thread. Is there a summary anywhere? I can't read all 33 pages right now...

Just got my 3 a few days ago. Half the time the car does not let me in with my cell in my pocket until I manually open the Tesla app. Also about 25% of the time I want to drive the car it tells me I have to scan the keycard, even when I used the phone key to enter the vehicle. Any ideas as to what is going on? My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1.

Yes. The problem is that tesla decided to use cell phones as car keys. Hopefully they fix it soon.

 

[daniel]

I appreciate all the good info in this thread. Is there a summary anywhere? I can't read all 33 pages right now...

Just got my 3 a few days ago. Half the time the car does not let me in with my cell in my pocket until I manually open the Tesla app. Also about 25% of the time I want to drive the car it tells me I have to scan the keycard, even when I used the phone key to enter the vehicle. Any ideas as to what is going on? My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1.

Summary of thread: Some people like the phone as key, but a lot of people, like you, are having problems with it, and for them, it's a total PITA. Bluetooth is just not a robust enough protocol to be reliable across platforms, hardware, and operating systems. Many people would greatly appreciate a key fob in addition to the phone app. The key card, while useful when the phone won't work, falls short of the functionality of a fob.

 

[dswansonsb]

I appreciate all the good info in this thread. Is there a summary anywhere? I can't read all 33 pages right now...

Just got my 3 a few days ago. Half the time the car does not let me in with my cell in my pocket until I manually open the Tesla app. Also about 25% of the time I want to drive the car it tells me I have to scan the keycard, even when I used the phone key to enter the vehicle. Any ideas as to what is going on? My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1.

Try walking up to the car with your phone in your hand rather than your pocket. Works most of the time for me.

 

[landis]

My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1

That is the phone/OS i will be using in 3 weeks or so, depending on how much over 6 weeks I will need to wait. I upgraded from a Windows phone in January to get ready for delivery. You have my attention and i have been reading this thread.

My backup plan is to put the RFID key card into same holder with my work badge/key. This is on a retractable cord so will be easy to pull and place as needed on car card readers. I already expend energy to ensure i have my badge before a long commute.

Try walking up to the car with your phone in your hand rather than your pocket. Works most of the time for me.

Some reports up thread of more trouble for folks who keep phone in back or left pocket. Get phone between you and the car.

Toggling Bluetooth off then on again is a form of reset more likely needed when you hang out with your phone nearish the car with no intent to open/drive. Or when you have been away a long time. This is way faster than restarting phone which often helps for the same reason.

Turning on airplane mode and turning on bluetooth is also mentioned but no evidence this works when toggling blutooth doesn't.

I assume you know how to use the action buttons so toggling bluetooth takes only a swipe and tap, tap. Someone has identified a workaround that automates turning bluetooth off (if not in active use) and turning it back on every 20-60 minutes.


How long does it take you to get situated after getting in before you get your foot on the brake pedal? I recommend docking phone after waking car up...


Tesla is on the bleeding edge with this tech so it may be while until phone venders include BLE lock apps in ther regression test suites. Once this happens i expect the situation will be less dire then many on this thread would have you believe. i also wouldn't be supprised with Android refinements for BLE that allow apps like Tesla to help alleviate some edge conditions occurring now.

edit:typos

 

[SDKoala]

I appreciate all the good info in this thread. Is there a summary anywhere? I can't read all 33 pages right now...

Just got my 3 a few days ago. Half the time the car does not let me in with my cell in my pocket until I manually open the Tesla app. Also about 25% of the time I want to drive the car it tells me I have to scan the keycard, even when I used the phone key to enter the vehicle. Any ideas as to what is going on? My phone is an Essential PH-1 with Android 8.1.

The summary is that you are experiencing that is a known issue, especially with Android phones. There are some that believe this is purely a phone problem, not a Tesla problem, and it must be working for the majority of people otherwise there'd be even more complaints. The contrary viewpoint is that it's a real problem and Tesla shouldn't be relying on an inherently inconsistent communication protocol (Bluetooth) to perform the most basic of tasks of a car key that should work all the time (ie. unlock the doors and allow the car to be driven).

I've seen the argument made that key fobs and regular metal keys aren't reliable 100% of the time, which is true. However, aside from the batteries in a fob dying or a button physically breaking, or snapping a key (which I bet most of us have never seen), those are far more reliable than the myriad of problems the phone-as-key setup has produced. It's interesting, driving the Model 3 doesn't give me range anxiety, it gives me key anxiety.

As for your specific problem, it sounds like something could be keeping the Telsa app from running in the background since you have to open the app in order to get the phone key to connect. Do you reboot your phone often? The app doesn't restart automatically after rebooting, so that could be part of it. Toggling Bluetooth by turning it on and off seems to help. I used that premise to devise a workaround that you could try.

 

[RDaneel]

Thanks, everyone, for the summaries and input. I'll try se of these suggestions. There must be some software bug, though, if I can get in the car with the phone key, but then can't put it in drive unless I have the key card. That's bullshit. Tesla better straighten that out soon...

 

[daniel]

Thanks, everyone, for the summaries and input. I'll try se of these suggestions. There must be some software bug, though, if I can get in the car with the phone key, but then can't put it in drive unless I have the key card. That's bullshit. Tesla better straighten that out soon...

With thousands of different models of smartphones, each with its own hardware, and several different operating systems possible for each smartphone model, Tesla is never going to be able to straighten this out. If they put enough software engineers onto it, they might be able to get it to work for the major phone makers, possibly with lapses after new OS releases. The only solution will be to come out with a fob that works with the car's Bluetooth. Or publish a list of phones that work, and which OS versions they work with.

This whole fustercluck is the result of trying to make the car "futuristic" too fast. What they should have done was to have both the app and a fob in the first release, so people would have a solid backup while they figure out that Bluetooth is just not reliable enough to be the main key for the car.

I consider myself lucky that my iPhone SE running iOS 10 works both to open and to start the car, though I still want a fob with an "Open Frunk" button because it's a PITA to open the frunk. Either cluck around with my phone, or open the door, lean way in, and press the screen button several times until it finally registers. And then do it all over again about one time out of ten when the release doesn't release all the way.

GIVE US A FOB, TESLA!!!

(But I still love the car!)

 

[kavyboy]

If they put enough software engineers onto it, they might be able to get it to work for the major phone makers, possibly with lapses after new OS releases.

Developing a fob would be cheaper than that. However, I expect Tesla is not going to admit any kind of misstep on their part and we'll never see a fob. (And sadly, I'll never see a Model 3 in my garage as a result.)

 

[daniel]

Developing a fob would be cheaper than that. However, I expect Tesla is not going to admit any kind of misstep on their part and we'll never see a fob. (And sadly, I'll never see a Model 3 in my garage as a result.)

I would say that Tesla has a history of listening to owners and responding. I am hopeful that the fob will come back. Maybe not for the current Model 3, but for future models.

I will also say that I like my Model 3 so much that in balance I'd still be happy with it if there was no app, and no key but the key card. I think that would be a very poor system. But this car is so much more than the app and phone key. It's comfortable, and a joy to drive.

The phone-as-key is a disaster and a really stupid idea in the absence of a fob to accompany it. But if I'd known before buying the car what I know now, and if there had been no app at all but just the key card, and Tesla had announced that in mid-2019 there would be a fob for the car, I'd have bought the car when I did without a moment's hesitation. I HATE the phone-as-key. But my love of the car so far outweighs that one problem that it would not have prevented me from getting it. I'd still have bought it with just the key card as key. This car is just THAT good. (My actual hesitation was because I didn't yet know how nice this car is to drive.)

 

[napabill]

I would say that Tesla has a history of listening to owners and responding. I am hopeful that the fob will come back. Maybe not for the current Model 3, but for future models.

I will also say that I like my Model 3 so much that in balance I'd still be happy with it if there was no app, and no key but the key card. I think that would be a very poor system. But this car is so much more than the app and phone key. It's comfortable, and a joy to drive.

The phone-as-key is a disaster and a really stupid idea in the absence of a fob to accompany it. But if I'd known before buying the car what I know now, and if there had been no app at all but just the key card, and Tesla had announced that in mid-2019 there would be a fob for the car, I'd have bought the car when I did without a moment's hesitation. I HATE the phone-as-key. But my love of the car so far outweighs that one problem that it would not have prevented me from getting it. I'd still have bought it with just the key card as key. This car is just THAT good. (My actual hesitation was because I didn't yet know how nice this car is to drive.)

I disagree. Love the system. Just requires relearning. But I use my phone, in a case, as my wallet, so it's nice to only have one thing to look after. And as long as the app is active on the iPhone, works every time.

 

[N5329K]

With thousands of different models of smartphones, each with its own hardware, and several different operating systems possible for each smartphone model, Tesla is never going to be able to straighten this out.

Completely agree. If it works for you, count your blessings. If not, escalate it and hope Tesla will pay attention.
Robin

 

[Kipp]

However, aside from the batteries in a fob dying or a button physically breaking, or snapping a key (which I bet most of us have never seen), those are far more reliable than the myriad of problems the phone-as-key setup has produced.

On key/fob issue I had in the past was on my Lexus ES300 key (which included the lock/unlock button on the key itself). Over time, the key would eventually break at the location where it joined to my key ring. The key/fob still worked but it just didn't stay affixed to my key ring which meant I had to buy another key/fob for $300+ (ouch). Same thing happened to the fob for our Honda Odyssey but that was still $150 from the dealer. I think we found one on ebay for $50, IIRC. Still both were ridiculously expensive. I like that the key cards are very cheap, $5 if memory serves.

PS: Still having problems with my phone-as-a-key. I'm starting to get used to it (i.e., pull out my phone and start the app as I'm walking towards the car, place phone in pocket, open door with door handle, drive away).

 

[kavyboy]

I'd still have bought it with just the key card as key. This car is just THAT good.

It may just be an attitude change on our part: ignore the phone thing and just say it's a keycard-only system (which it will be for us). That makes it a bit more palatable, but as my wife says, why "Why am I compromising before I even buy anything?" The Model S fob was just so perfect for us, we're spoiled now. Thanks for the great response, too!

 

[arondaniel]

This morning the phone "key" apparently half worked. It allowed the car to back up 15 feet, then everything stopped and it demanded the card on console.

Tesla, we want a FOB. This is getting ridiculous.

EDIT: Google Pixel ver 1. The ultra modern phone with the busted blue toof stack.

 

[RDaneel]

I wish that Tesla was a little more humble about this situation. I spoke to customer support this morning, and while the rep was super helpful and professional, the first response is along the lines of "well, there are many different Android phones, each with different software setups." Yes, Tesla, that is right. It was also equally true when you conceived of the phone key, when you implemented the phone key, and when you tested the phone key. This was not an unknowable fact. If your attitude is "bluetooth is hard," then you shouldn't have made one of the most basic functions of the car dependent on it. Or, preferably, you should be devoting more resources to fixing the issue. I love the phone key when it works, but that should be 99.9% of the time.