Phone as Key Issues

[dswansonsb]

The phone as key works for me almost every time (though sometimes with a bit of a delay). The times it didn't, the phone also wasn't recognized to start the car. A reset of the phone (Nexus 5X) fixed the problem.

I do have a problem every time if I have "walk away lock" turned off and manually lock the car by touching the lock icon on the touchscreen (after first opening the door). When I come back to the car the phone never unlocks the car in this case and I have to use the card.

 

[woof]

I get that the bluetooth proximity bits don't always work (I've had great luck apparently, with very few issues there), but if you have your phone and access to the Tesla mothership* via the app you should be able to unlock and start the car via the app controls, just like with the X and the S. So there are three ways to open/start the Model 3: keycard, bluetooth proximity, app.

And Siri integration is coming along nicely, so eventually "Hey Siri, unlock my car's trunk" will work hands free, for those of you carrying cellos.

*Yes, that means both the car and the phone need data connectivity, and the mothership must be working!

 

[SDKoala]

After observing that turning Bluetooth off/on would allow my Pixel to be recognized as the key if it wasn't connecting, I posted a workaround for Android phones using an app called Tasker to automatically toggle the phone's Bluetooth connection off/on in the background at set intervals. The Tesla app also suggests turning Bluetooth off/on can get the phone to be recognized as the key if it's disconnected, so they must be aware of this Bluetooth issue.

My non-techie hypothesis is that the Bluetooth Low Energy function of the phone (which is how a phone connects with the Model 3 as a key) shuts down or hibernates in Android phones after some set time after not being used. I bet iPhones don't do this. I noticed that I only had problems with the phone key after being away from the car for many hours at a time, like all day at work or overnight.

Since enabling Tasker to automatically turn my Bluetooth off/on every hour, I haven't had an issue yet with unlocking the car the first time every time. Battery drain on the phone has been a non-issue. My original post explains how to set it up to avoid interfering with normal Bluetooth functions. I'd be interested to see if this helps other Android users having the same problem.

 

[Ryan Webb]

After observing that turning Bluetooth off/on would allow my Pixel to be recognized as the key if it wasn't connecting, I posted a workaround for Android phones using an app called Tasker to automatically toggle the phone's Bluetooth connection off/on in the background at set intervals. The Tesla app also suggests turning Bluetooth off/on can get the phone to be recognized as the key if it's disconnected, so they must be aware of this Bluetooth issue.

My non-techie hypothesis is that the Bluetooth Low Energy function of the phone (which is how a phone connects with the Model 3 as a key) shuts down or hibernates in Android phones after some set time after not being used. I bet iPhones don't do this. I noticed that I only had problems with the phone key after being away from the car for many hours at a time, like all day at work or overnight.

Since enabling Tasker to automatically turn my Bluetooth off/on every hour, I haven't had an issue yet with unlocking the car the first time every time. Battery drain on the phone has been a non-issue. My original post explains how to set it up to avoid interfering with normal Bluetooth functions. I'd be interested to see if this helps other Android users having the same problem.

I followed your directions, and set up Tasker to turn bluetooth on/off (Awesome directions, btw!). However, I think it just doesn't like my phone (just like my 3). It will turn bluetooth off after 2 minutes, but then it's about 2 minutes before it comes back on. It did leave it on while the phone was connected to a device, but the cycling wasn't working well for me. Battery seemed to be draining faster than usual. This is on a BLU LIFE ONE X2.

Not that I can test it with my Model 3 right now...it's in the shop. Screen went totally dead, non responsive. Drives fine - but with no driver feedback at all. Service Center said they have to order a new computer.

 

[cellogig]

I followed your directions, and set up Tasker to turn bluetooth on/off (Awesome directions, btw!). However, I think it just doesn't like my phone (just like my 3). It will turn bluetooth off after 2 minutes, but then it's about 2 minutes before it comes back on. It did leave it on while the phone was connected to a device, but the cycling wasn't working well for me. Battery seemed to be draining faster than usual. This is on a BLU LIFE ONE X2.

Not that I can test it with my Model 3 right now...it's in the shop. Screen went totally dead, non responsive. Drives fine - but with no driver feedback at all. Service Center said they have to order a new computer.

Sorry your car is in the shop! Hopefully you got a loaner. I am part of the flatbed club...my wife’s model x. Works great now.
The phone key issue, hopefully there will be a fix. I know the fix for the vampire drain was for most people. Also autopilot and a couple of other things have been updated since my ownership in which I find outstanding!

 

[SDKoala]

I followed your directions, and set up Tasker to turn bluetooth on/off (Awesome directions, btw!). However, I think it just doesn't like my phone (just like my 3). It will turn bluetooth off after 2 minutes, but then it's about 2 minutes before it comes back on. It did leave it on while the phone was connected to a device, but the cycling wasn't working well for me. Battery seemed to be draining faster than usual. This is on a BLU LIFE ONE X2.

Not that I can test it with my Model 3 right now...it's in the shop. Screen went totally dead, non responsive. Drives fine - but with no driver feedback at all. Service Center said they have to order a new computer.

I'm sorry it's not working on your phone. I've been running it now for a few days in a row and still unlocking on the first try every time.

It sounds like Tasker is trying to turn the Bluetooth off then on faster than your phone can register the command. It's not turning on again until the task runs again 2 minutes later (assuming you used a 2 minute interval). Try adding a "Wait" function in the Bluetooth Off / Bluetooth On task.

From the Profile tab, tap where it says "Bluetooth Off / Bluetooth On" to the right of the green arrow, which takes you back to the Task Edit screen. Tap the "+" to add an action. Type, then select "wait." Specify a short amount of time, like 5 seconds. Go back to the Task Edit screen and drag the Wait action so it's the step between Bluetooth Off and Bluetooth On. Test it by pressing the play arrow and see if it works.

Turning it Bluetooth on/off every 2 minutes more often than it needs and would contribute to battery drain if your phone and Tasker aren't playing well together. You can see if Tasker itself is causing the drain by enabling it without running any automatic profiles.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Picked up our Model 3 yesterday, had the same issue today (several times).

The problem seems to be with the app and multiple cars (in our case one Model S & one Model 3).

When switching cars in the app - to a car other than the Model 3 - it disconnect the phone as key mode. Even after switching back to the Model 3 there is a big delay.

We need someone with only a Model 3 to confirm or deny they have the same problem.

Comment for Males only ( who don't carry a purse ).

Just wondering.....would you rather have 2 fobs to keep up with. I can't tell if you are a male or a female, however if you are a male....I wonder if like me...there is just too much junk ( keys and fobs ) on my keying already. Putting my keys in my pocket looks like I'm stealing a fist full of candy. I have my wifes' cars fob on there. I have my cars non-fobbed remote and key on there, my house key. My work keys...etc.
Using a phone instead of another fob keeps me from adding to the candy bulge.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Maybe one thing that could possibly help is if Tesla would allow all reservationist the opportunity to come in to a store and pre-test the quality of the Bluetooth of their phones.

The ability to test multiple Tesla's on the app would also be a great opportunity.


HOW about it Tesla?

 

[SDKoala]

Comment for Males only ( who don't carry a purse ).

Just wondering.....would you rather have 2 fobs to keep up with. I can't tell if you are a male or a female, however if you are a male....I wonder if like me...there is just too much junk ( keys and fobs ) on my keying already. Putting my keys in my pocket looks like I'm stealing a fist full of candy. I have my wifes' cars fob on there. I have my cars non-fobbed remote and key on there, my house key. My work keys...etc.
Using a phone instead of another fob keeps me from adding to the candy bulge.

I wouldn't mind a fob at all. My wife and I don't have "her key ring" and "his key ring" with duplicates of everything on each. We have "key ring for car #1," "key ring for car #2," "key ring for car #3," etc. Each has the car key fob, a house key, a mailbox key, and a small Swiss army knife. Four things, that's it. Work keys are on separate key rings that live in work bags, which we would never be without when going to our respective offices. I don't have the need to carry keys for 2 different cars on me at the same time when I'm away from home. It's different for everyone and works for us.

 

[Ryan Webb]

I'm sorry it's not working on your phone. I've been running it now for a few days in a row and still unlocking on the first try every time.

It sounds like Tasker is trying to turn the Bluetooth off then on faster than your phone can register the command. It's not turning on again until the task runs again 2 minutes later (assuming you used a 2 minute interval). Try adding a "Wait" function in the Bluetooth Off / Bluetooth On task.

From the Profile tab, tap where it says "Bluetooth Off / Bluetooth On" to the right of the green arrow, which takes you back to the Task Edit screen. Tap the "+" to add an action. Type, then select "wait." Specify a short amount of time, like 5 seconds. Go back to the Task Edit screen and drag the Wait action so it's the step between Bluetooth Off and Bluetooth On. Test it by pressing the play arrow and see if it works.

Turning it Bluetooth on/off every 2 minutes more often than it needs and would contribute to battery drain if your phone and Tasker aren't playing well together. You can see if Tasker itself is causing the drain by enabling it without running any automatic profiles.

Thanks!! The ''wait" did the trick... I got it down to 50ms (10ms did not work). Now it's reliably turning the BT off/on every time. Now.....if I could just try it on my Model 3...it's still at the SC, and probably will be for awhile...they they are now replacing the computer...ugh

 

[RTPEV]

Comment for Males only ( who don't carry a purse ).

Just wondering.....would you rather have 2 fobs to keep up with.

Here is what we do in my house. We have 2 cars, each with 2 fobs. My wife keeps her primary fob in her purse. My primary fob is either in my pocket if I'm driving the car, or on the key rack near the garage door. My primary fob is on a key ring that has my house key, mailbox key, office key and a few other keys I occasionally use. The backup fob is just on a ring by itself.

Normally my wife and I rarely drive each other's cars, but if we need to, as we go out into the garage, we simply grab the fob we need. I suppose if I had to take her car to work for some reason yes, I would have an extra fob in my pocket. If this was a common thing (and it seems to me in the past we've done this), I would get one of those secondary rings with a connector that you can quickly disconnect from one ring and reconnect to another so I would essentially have a separate ring with my daily keys on it that I cold connect to whichever fob I was using that day.

This system works perfectly well for us. I can't really envision a case where I'd need to regularly carry 2 fobs around with me every day. Maybe there is some use case out there where spouses are constantly switching cars while away from the house, but basically having the spare fobs stored close to where the car is (just inside the garage door in our case) seems quite straightforward.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Thanks for the dialogue everyone.

Bluetooth sends signals over a 2.4GHz radio frequency. This becomes problematic when other nearby devices are also using that frequency. Wi-Fi is perhaps the biggest and most problematic example, as are other Bluetooth receivers and devices, which can interfere with one another.
I wonder if a Model S fob ( which uses the same exact frequency ) can interfere with the Bluetooth signal from your phone. Although .....Bluetooth technology use what’s called spread-spectrum frequency hopping. That is, they rotate between 70 randomly chose frequencies within their range, changing 1,600 times a second. This makes it unlikely that two devices will share the same frequency. And when they do, they won’t for very long. Other Bluetooth technology also employs what is called AFH, a technology that identifies “bad” channels (i.e. those that are already in use) and instigates a switch ( THIS ONLY happens with the latest android and iPhone phones ) . in other words....not all Bluetooth is created the same as AFH is really cool. I wonder if Tesla Model 3 has adopted AFH..hhhmm. My vote would be yes....but....

I suppose the question could be....How can we tell what signal the Model 3 is concentrating on? That would be a nice feature on the screen. My phone has discovery that shows other Bluetooth opportunities in the immediate vicinity as well as the signal strength of those Bluetooth devices......why not the Model 3? What device is it listening to? Wait a min.....it would have to have this feature as it needs to be able to pair 1-4 different phones for access. What was I thinking?
I have a set of Bose Bluetooth headphones that I can simultaneously connect to my phone and my laptop. It works great, however if they are sitting next to one another and I start walking away while wearing my headphones.......I ALWAYS 100% of the time lose connection with my phone before I lose connection with the laptop.

I can tell you this for a fact. I live in Chicago and I can hardly get ANY kind of Bluetooth to consistently work downtown Chicago on Michigan Avenue around Jackson and Adams. There is some kind of gigantically powered 2.4GHZ signal that has all Bluetooth antennas attracted to it. I will have to use my Model 3 card when downtown. I know this for sure.


That said, even microwaves can cause Bluetooth interference with your devices. So can Direct Satellite Service (DSS), 2.4GHz and 5GHz phones, wireless speakers, external monitors, baby monitors, and really any wireless device that uses Bluetooth technology. Fluorescent lights have been known to vibrate at 2.5Ghz for those with that type of lighting in their garage. Turn out the lights and see if your car responds better. Don't try to open the model 3 while you are microwaving a pizza in the garage...lol


That's pretty much all I know about Bluetooth off the top of my head. I am going to set up a Bluetooth monitor using my raspberry pi to capture Bluetooth connectivity in my house. I'm now interested in the signal strength of all of my devices.

 

[Garlan Garner]

One more thing.......

I know of a person in this forum that was having Bluetooth problems opening his Model 3 via Bluetooth and what caused it to now work 100% of the time is putting his phone in airplane mode.

Cutting off WIFI and GPS and other signals on his phone worked to clear his Bluetooth problem? Fancy that.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Question: I thought all NEW technology was supposed to come out on the Model S and X first.....


hmmm... sorry.....that wasn't exactly a question. lol

 

[N5329K]

Thanks for the dialogue everyone.

Bluetooth sends signals over a 2.4GHz radio frequency. This becomes problematic when other nearby devices are also using that frequency. Wi-Fi is perhaps the biggest and most problematic example, as are other Bluetooth receivers and devices, which can interfere with one another.
I wonder if a Model S fob ( which uses the same exact frequency ) can interfere with the Bluetooth signal from your phone. Although .....Bluetooth technology use what’s called spread-spectrum frequency hopping. That is, they rotate between 70 randomly chose frequencies within their range, changing 1,600 times a second. This makes it unlikely that two devices will share the same frequency. And when they do, they won’t for very long. Other Bluetooth technology also employs what is called AFH, a technology that identifies “bad” channels (i.e. those that are already in use) and instigates a switch ( THIS ONLY happens with the latest android and iPhone phones ) . in other words....not all Bluetooth is created the same as AFH is really cool. I wonder if Tesla Model 3 has adopted AFH..hhhmm. My vote would be yes....but....

I suppose the question could be....How can we tell what signal the Model 3 is concentrating on? That would be a nice feature on the screen. My phone has discovery that shows other Bluetooth opportunities in the immediate vicinity as well as the signal strength of those Bluetooth devices......why not the Model 3? What device is it listening to? Wait a min.....it would have to have this feature as it needs to be able to pair 1-4 different phones for access. What was I thinking?
I have a set of Bose Bluetooth headphones that I can simultaneously connect to my phone and my laptop. It works great, however if they are sitting next to one another and I start walking away while wearing my headphones.......I ALWAYS 100% of the time lose connection with my phone before I lose connection with the laptop.

I can tell you this for a fact. I live in Chicago and I can hardly get ANY kind of Bluetooth to consistently work downtown Chicago on Michigan Avenue around Jackson and Adams. There is some kind of gigantically powered 2.4GHZ signal that has all Bluetooth antennas attracted to it. I will have to use my Model 3 card when downtown. I know this for sure.


That said, even microwaves can cause Bluetooth interference with your devices. So can Direct Satellite Service (DSS), 2.4GHz and 5GHz phones, wireless speakers, external monitors, baby monitors, and really any wireless device that uses Bluetooth technology. Fluorescent lights have been known to vibrate at 2.5Ghz for those with that type of lighting in their garage. Turn out the lights and see if your car responds better. Don't try to open the model 3 while you are microwaving a pizza in the garage...lol


That's pretty much all I know about Bluetooth off the top of my head. I am going to set up a Bluetooth monitor using my raspberry pi to capture Bluetooth connectivity in my house. I'm now interested in the signal strength of all of my devices.

Garlan, I absolutely get how some people really like to get down in the weeds with a problem, puzzle it out and solve it. I spend hours doing that on my old Triumph, and some people think, "Who would want to waste their time rebuilding a carburetor?" They just want to drive. Not mess with dinosaur tech. I understand that, and I still like wrenching on old metal. When I turn the (non-virtual) key and the engine fires up, idles smoothly, with oil pressure in the green, well, it makes me feel like my considerable efforts were all worthwhile.
This phone-as-key deal is a little like that. Some people just love to dive in, figure out the problem, do a workaround, and feel great when it all operates the way it should, mostly. Others just want to drive and can't understand who would want to waste their time making a complex system of systems approximate, sometimes, what a simple fob does over and over and over again without muss or fuss.
Some of us are just tinkerers, some of us aren't. ✌
Robin

 

[Garlan Garner]

Garlan, I absolutely get how some people really like to get down in the weeds with a problem, puzzle it out and solve it. I spend hours doing that on my old Triumph, and some people think, "Who would want to waste their time rebuilding a carburetor?" They just want to drive. Not mess with dinosaur tech. I understand that, and I still like wrenching on old metal. When I turn the (non-virtual) key and the engine fires up, idles smoothly, with oil pressure in the green, well, it makes me feel like my considerable efforts were all worthwhile.
This phone-as-key deal is a little like that. Some people just love to dive in, figure out the problem, do a workaround, and feel great when it all operates the way it should, mostly. Others just want to drive and can't understand who would want to waste their time making a complex system of systems approximate, sometimes, what a simple fob does over and over and over again without muss or fuss.
Some of us are just tinkerers, some of us aren't. ✌
Robin

Absolutely true...i get it.

Depending on what it is.....I like to get in the weeds.....and then other times wait for someone else to do it.

 

[RTPEV]

This phone-as-key deal is a little like that. Some people just love to dive in, figure out the problem, do a workaround, and feel great when it all operates the way it should, mostly. Others just want to drive and can't understand who would want to waste their time making a complex system of systems approximate, sometimes, what a simple fob does over and over and over again without muss or fuss.
Some of us are just tinkerers, some of us aren't. ✌
Robin

If the Bluetooth thing was something that people actually have control over, or was something that needed routine maintenance to keep things running smoothly, I might be inclined to agree with you (and I don't count having to turn off all your electronic appliances as "control"). In this case, the Bluetooth key can pretty much be considered "non user servicable" and short of writing your own phone app and vehicle firmware that was somehow "smarter" than the existing one (neither of which is really technically possible), we're basically limited to understanding the issue, not actually addressing it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If the Bluetooth thing was something that people actually have control over, or was something that needed routine maintenance to keep things running smoothly, I might be inclined to agree with you (and I don't count having to turn off all your electronic appliances as "control"). In this case, the Bluetooth key can pretty much be considered "non user servicable" and short of writing your own phone app and vehicle firmware that was somehow "smarter" than the existing one (neither of which is really technically possible), we're basically limited to understanding the issue, not actually addressing it.

Only problem is that its a problem for so few.....respective to how many people have purchased the car.

 

[rosh]

I just picked up. I have a pixel 2 xl and have had Bluetooth issues with a bunch of different devices. I had some initial set up and sync issues, but it appears to be working quite well.

 

[cellogig]

Tesla should provide an optional FOB for model 3.

The issue here is NOT Tesla's SW or bluetooth. It is about how the bluetooth implementation works on both Android and iPhones. The phone needs to save power, so they do NOT have the bluetooth radio advertising all the time its presence. It is dynamically managed by the OS in the phone and it decides when to broadcast the bluetooth services of the phone that are to be received by any other BT device. The car's BT radio is always on scanning to see if a known BT advertiser (your phone) is around and then unlock the car.

This varies from phone to phone and from OS to OS on both Android and iOS, to give you an example sometimes on iOS there can be lapses of 30s or more with the BT radio not advertising its ID making it impossible for the car to detect the presence.

I have developed bluetooth proximity applications in the past and i am familiar with the power policies of BT in the phones and how it impacts ANY BT proximity applications, it is documented on both Android and iOS developer guides.

As the battery of your phone gets lower the power management policies become more aggressive and bluetooth is not advertising for longer periods of time. (the same behavior is seen on BT door locks for example)

Tesla knows this, and still they chose to use this as the primary method to unlock the vehicle due to conveniency.

From an App development perspective you can't override the phone OS bluetooth power policy when the App enters background. When it is on the foreground (app open) your car will unlock easier (because the App now has full control of the BT radio on the phone and can start BT advertising right away) but when the phone is in your pocket (App in background mode) the phone OS takes control of the BT radio and has to arbitrate the use of the BT advertising of all the services requested by all BT apps in your phone (Tesla app being just one of them). This is how phone OSs work so you do not burn battery as BT will be advertising its ID too often.

So, give us the option of an FOB like in the model S. Also heard phone auto unlock is coming on Model S at some point, hopefully the other way around comes first

Thank feli for writing this post