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Plan: Off grid solar with a Model S battery pack at the heart

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Do you see any LEDs blinking when you charge (D100 on the BMB)? i wonder when and what those LEDs indicate, and who was supposed to see them when they do...?

Nope, the LED has not lit once since I got the pack.

testpack.jpg


Got this setup ready for some testing tomorrow assuming my inverter arrives on time. My main concern is at what voltage the inverter will cut off and if that is well above the 0% SoC cut off that Tesla uses which seems to be about 3.2V per cell, or 38.4V in my configuration. If the inverter cuts off at 40V, lets say, thats 3.333V per cell, so, still a good amount of juice in there...

Using mechanical lugs and 4/0 cable for the moment. All current paths are equal length to encourage equal discharging. Using the original 630A main pack fuse for now until I get some module set level fuses. Wiring is overkill for my 8kW test, since each set of modules will only need to put out ~25A (338mA per cell). But I wanted to make sure resistance in wiring wouldn't contribute much to the test results.

Again, this is for testing only, at only ~8kW max. A final permanent solution will be much more elegant and include liquid cooling, fire protection, etc. If the inverter will only use say 60% of the pack capacity, though, due to low voltages and sag under load, then it's back to the drawing board...
 
So are you going to run a 10-hour test to see when the inverter kicks out? And if the low voltage drop out point is not to your liking, then you'll just reprogram the inverter to the set point you want? Is this system going in the mountains or on the beach?

- - - Updated - - -

i have to get past 5 posts to turn on the edit feature...

We discovered that the TCCH chargers send out a 74-byte serial data stream with voltage, current, temperature, amp-hrs, etc. It would be interesting to tap into the cell voltage output stream for the BMBs and then you could monitor the pack on pc or over wifi.
 
I plan to charge the pack pretty high, and then start a test at maybe 5kW. I'm nearly certain that even the lowest possible setting on the inverter will cut out before the pack is fully drained. If I can pull 70kW out of it at 5kW draw (14 hours) I'll be happy. I have a feeling it will be closer to 50 or 60kWh though.

I will be monitoring the voltage of the pack as well as the voltage of some of the individual cell groups during the test. My target cut off voltage is 3.2V per cell, or 38.4V pack voltage.
 
Success.

After some testing, since I'm impatient... I um... cut off my main and backfed my main panel from this 8kW inverter and am currently on my PC in my house that is running completely on the Tesla pack...

Also successfully put my Model S on charge off of it at 32A/240V with an efficiency of about 88%.

Going to shut back down and charge the pack up from the grid so that later (tomorrow probably) I can do my full (down to 40V) discharge test.

I'll note that even pulling 205A DC @ 45V the pack voltage barely sagged 200mV. Pretty impressive. I guess it's not too amazing considering that its about a 0.1C discharge, but still... pretty cool.

OK, back to being patient again...
 
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Tinkered with my inverter a bit more today, did a bit of grid arbitrage for fun since I'm on Time-of-Use metering here. Ran most of my loads all day from the pack, charging it back up now on off-peak (< 1/2 price...).

Probably will mess around like this until I get this stuff to its permanent home with solar in a month or so.
 
Probably won't have many more pics for a little while until I get into full swing on this project, which won't be until later in the year. Mainly because the current state of my test setup is embarrassing. :redface:

But... panels acquired!

66panels.jpg


66 Sunpower 435W 20% efficiency panels, 28.7kW DC. These should do the trick. :)
 
Do have an update on the test setup, however.

I now have 16kW of DC->AC inverter hardware. I tested the setup at full power charging the Model S at 66A/244V. After nearly an hour the batteries didn't even show any noticeable change in temperature using the FLIR cam. My 4/0 wiring I'm using to wire everything heated up about 15 degrees total. The reused main pack fuse was the hottest part, hitting about 135F. My 1000A shunt heated up a bit to around 125F.

The DC side draw was around 388A @ ~46V as read from the shunt at the final tie point to the battery bank, so, 17848W input for 16104W output is about 90% efficient. This is running the inverters at full power, so, probably not the most efficient point, either. The final setup will have more of these inverters, so, can run each closer to its highest efficiency point. In any case, 90% isn't bad.

The voltage sag was only about 850mV at this load, which I think is pretty darn good.

388A comes to 48.5A per set of modules, so 655mA per cell... so the individual cells were barely under much of a load (~1/5C) despite the pack putting out 18kW.
 
Digging up my stale thread, I'm finally moving forward on installation of this project.

I'm doing this project in three phases.

Phase 1:
  • Install two 200A sub-panels
  • Install two 200A manual transfer switches
  • Install 200A breaker in each existing service panel to feed one input of each transfer switch
  • Each Transfer switch load connected to new sub panel 200A main breaker
  • Relocate all branch circuits from two existing 200A service panels to the two new sub-panels

I've detailed my plans for phase one on another forum, but I'll quote here:
Hello,

So, I'm planning a large off-grid solar project as mentioned in a previous thread here. All will be permitted/inspected/etc. I have a decent bit of experience with all of this, but, can never hurt to double check my plan and get other opinions. Jurisdiction is North Carolina, Catawba County. NC is under the 2011 NEC with minor amendments that don't appear to relate to my situation.

I want to do this in phases. I'm working on planning for phase one now.

Phase one will be to move all branch circuits in my existing two 200A service panels to two new 200A sub-panels located in a new "mechanical room" (essentially a 10x12 room in the finished basement earmarked for all of the off grid solar equipment). The new panels will be located on an interior non-load bearing wall. The new mechanical room does not have a ceiling (exposed floor joists with insulation between them).

I'm going to install two 200A manual transfer switches (huge Square D type) near the two new panels. The connection will end up being Service wiring -> Existing 200A main breaker -> 200A sub-panel breaker in service panel (the 4-position huge sucker for QO panels) -> one side of the transfer switch. Then the load (center) of the transfer switch will feed the 200A "main" breaker on the new sub-panel. Then repeat entire process for the second panel.

The existing service panels will remain in place and will eventually have the breakers for the grid interactive inverters (for automatic use of grid power during a low battery condition). So, I'm not removing them or converting them to gutted junction boxes.

I plan to use 3/0 copper (L1, L2, and N) for the service panel to transfer switch and transfer switch to sub panels and a 4 AWG ground conductor for the same. (Not bonding ground/neutral beyond of the service panel obviously). Plan is to running this all in 2" EMT.

Doing so will require the disconnection and removal of the existing branch circuits from the service panel first, since the top 2" knockout is used for the conduit stub-up for the branch circuits currently and there are no other accessible knock outs that would be practical to use for this 2" conduit connection.

Some existing branch circuits (Romex) run somewhat in the direction where I'm going to be putting the new panels. So, for those, the plan is to simple reroute the existing wiring as possible/legal without any splicing.

The majority, including the feed for an existing 100A sub-panel in the finished attic space, will not reach without splicing. My plan is to add one or more junction boxes above the drop ceiling above the existing service panels, and have the branch circuits that will not reach enter this box. The majority are 14/2 or 12/2 romex with a couple of 10/2 and a few larger 60A branches for HVAC. In total there are 28 circuits that will need relocating.

I plan to connect the existing branches each to new THHN wiring and run it through EMT or ENT to the new panels. I'll add a ground bus to the junction box and pull a 8 or 6 AWG ground (probably overkill, but I have extra of this wire) feed from there through each conduit used from the junction box ground bus bar to the sub panel ground bus bar. All existing grounds tie into the ground bus bar in the juction box, obviously. Line and neutral lines all 1 to 1, same size conductors and conductor count. I know that in some cases EMT can be used as a ground, but I've never actually solely used it for one.

I *believe* I'm OK with 8 or 9 line/neutral wires plus my ground in 3/4" EMT or ENT conduit from the j-box to the new sub-panels after taking into account NEC Table 310.15(B)(3)(a) and noting NEC 240.4. This should let me route all of the existing circuits using 4 or 5 runs of conduit. I'm not sure if using a larger conduit and up-sizing the conductors per 310.15(B)(3)(a) would make more sense. The run in the ceiling on the bottom of the floor joists is unobstructed with about a 5ft wide path available without needing any bends in the conduit.

OCPDs in the new sub-panels will be upgraded to AFCI as required by NEC 210.12(B)(1).

The distance between the existing service panels and the new sub-panels and transfer switches is approximately 25 ft. The transfer switches will be adjacent to the new sub-panels. The other side of the manual transfer switch will be left open for future connection to the output of the off-grid inverter bank. (Phase 2)

I believe this is a pretty sound plan for phase one, however I would appreciate any input/comments/questions/concerns that anyone may be willing to share.

Thank you in advance!

-k

Edit: Some notes I forgot to mention...

It is not practical to relocate the service entrance conductors to the new sub-panel area for several reasons. An additional reason is that I eventually require the existing service panels for connection to the grid-interactive inverters for battery charging during low battery conditions when insufficient renewable energy is available. Also, the service entrance is less than 2 ft from the existing panels and has no OCPDs on the meter side. Extended them would require these to be added I believe.

The transfer switches and new panels will be physically close to the inverters (~5 to 8 ft) in the end and the 25 ft run of cable from the grid-tied service panels and 200A sub-panel breaker will rarely be used except during any maintenance. The 200A breaker and the 4x50A inverter breakers in each service panel will never be energized simultaneously. Also, no power is ever being fed back into the utility grid.

In phase two, the inverter bank will be sufficiently sized to operate both 200A panels normally without any load shedding needed or additional power from the utility grid.

Phase 2 will be to get the batteries, inverters, and solar charge controllers installed (with no panels connected yet). Once done this will allow the system to operate in UPS/Backup mode utilizing the batteries when grid power is unavailable, and recharging them when it is restored. Basically a whole house backup power supply. This is probably the most complicated step and will require the most planning and approvals, but, with phase one complete my house will never have to be without power for more than a few minutes while phase two and three are underway.

Phase 3 will be to install the solar panels and do the switch to off-grid usage with battery storage. The charge controllers should already be in place from phase two, so it is just a matter of wiring in the panels. This phase will be split into phase 3A and 3B being the roof mount portion and ground mount portions respectively. Roughly 36 of my panels will be roof mounted, the other 30 will be ground mounted for a total of 28.7kW DC solar power. This is enough to fully charge the 85kWh Tesla battery pack from dead in under 3 hours. Generally the system will be setup to operate in the 10% to 90% SoC range, giving about 70kWh of usable energy. The pack can be further depleted beyond 10% with a manual override in an emergency, but I hope to never need to do that.

Somewhere between the end of phase 1 and the end of phase 3 I may be adding a second Tesla 85kWh pack to the setup for a total of 170kWh of storage. This will halve the amperage the modules are run at, thus extending battery life.

More to come! :)