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#21
AmpedRealtor said:
I hope you receive the resolution that you seek.

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Given the reports about failed contactors, I'm shocked Tesla did not do a proactive replacement. Tesla proactively replaced rear seat brackets because it discovered a flaw, but it doesn't do the same over an issue that could lead to a terrible accident? Imagine being in the fast lane when the car suddenly loses power and then needing to cross over four lanes of cars going 75+ MPH to get to the shoulder. We are incredibly fortunate that nothing worse has happened, but this is one area where I am not at all satisfied with Tesla's response. This should have been a big deal.

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@ napabill - If you are not happy with Tesla's response, I might suggest you file a report with the NHTSA. This is a real safety issue that should be addressed.
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Does seem odd that they would go to the trouble of de-installing a battery, shipping it to Fremont, having it returned to SC, then having to arrange for my Tesla to be returned, with loaners involved on both ends. Then replacing the loaner battery in my car with my so-called fixed battery. I'm 50 miles from the SC so it all takes a lot of everyone's time.

Before I get to worked up, I want to see how the next step is handled. My experience with SC folks is that they are well intentioned, but not always well-informed. We shall see.
 
#23
napabill said:
Does seem odd that they would go to the trouble of de-installing a battery, shipping it to Fremont, having it returned to SC, then having to arrange for my Tesla to be returned, with loaners involved on both ends. Then replacing the loaner battery in my car with my so-called fixed battery. I'm 50 miles from the SC so it all takes a lot of everyone's time.

Before I get to worked up, I want to see how the next step is handled. My experience with SC folks is that they are well intentioned, but not always well-informed. We shall see.
Click to expand...

There have been a few other people reporting that same type of repair for battery issues, it seems that Tesla may be starting to transition to a pack repair model (with a temporary loaner battery) instead of a replacement one.
 
#24
napabill said:
Does seem odd that they would go to the trouble of de-installing a battery, shipping it to Fremont, having it returned to SC, then having to arrange for my Tesla to be returned, with loaners involved on both ends. Then replacing the loaner battery in my car with my so-called fixed battery. I'm 50 miles from the SC so it all takes a lot of everyone's time.

Before I get to worked up, I want to see how the next step is handled. My experience with SC folks is that they are well intentioned, but not always well-informed. We shall see.
Click to expand...

While not what you want to hear, it really makes sense for them to do this with A packs. Once they pull an A pack out, they will have issues giving that pack to someone with a car that doesn't have an A pack already (because people with a B pack or later will be expecting a B or later), so if they pulled yours out and gave you a B or D pack, they're now stuck with an A pack they can't do anything with.

As far as your concerns, I would imagine the contactor they are using to repair yours will be of the same type and quality as newer B or D packs. Given that the majority of battery failures have actually been with the contactor, I think you can rest assured that you will have an equivalent quality contactor to a newer pack. That being said, I don't know if a B or D pack actually has an updated contactor from what the A packs have. I hope so given the number of contactor failures we've seen.
 
#25
pgiralt said:
While not what you want to hear, it really makes sense for them to do this with A packs. Once they pull an A pack out, they will have issues giving that pack to someone with a car that doesn't have an A pack already (because people with a B pack or later will be expecting a B or later), so if they pulled yours out and gave you a B or D pack, they're now stuck with an A pack they can't do anything with.

As far as your concerns, I would imagine the contactor they are using to repair yours will be of the same type and quality as newer B or D packs. Given that the majority of battery failures have actually been with the contactor, I think you can rest assured that you will have an equivalent quality contactor to a newer pack. That being said, I don't know if a B or D pack actually has an updated contactor from what the A packs have. I hope so given the number of contactor failures we've seen.
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Spoken like a true B or better battery pack owner. But what they do with the A packs is not my concern. The fact is I and my passengers were put in harm's way because of the flawed battery. I expect Tesla to not just replace with the same flawed battery system. Trust me, if you'd been in the car when this happened you wouldn't be taking such a cavalier attitude with your safety. And I if I sound annoyed, it's because I am. And you can be sure the passengers, who were new to the Tesla thing, are not going to be spreading the good word.
 
#28
napabill said:
Just finished a 2,000 mile trip up to Vancouver, no problems, perfect. Had my 25,000 mile service done just before I left. Day after I got back went to pick up a couple of neighbors a mile from me, and as I leave after picking them up, I accelerate on a long straight stretch of highway. And "POP" goes the car, and warning lights and the car shuts down. Claimed the 12v battery had issues. I pull over, the car dead sticking it. My dear 30,000 mile Tess is dead in the water. A call to Tesla Roadside, after a rather length hold, got a tow truck on it's way. I had remembered reading some time ago, that if the 12v battery goes, the "Tow" mode becomes unavailable, so I managed to get it selected. About 5 minutes later, the computers/screens went black. Tess is on her way to a service center, and will find out more on Monday. Bummer.:confused:
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Sorry to hear this- I remember meeting you and your wife at the Quartzsite supercharger last December. I had my main pack replaced at about 30,000 miles a few months ago due to high voltage interlock failure that kept it from recharging the 12V battery. With any luck you'll get my refurbed B pack since it still range charged to 262 miles. The best I was able to get out of the replacement pack has been 259 miles.
 
#29
napabill said:
Spoken like a true B or better battery pack owner. But what they do with the A packs is not my concern. The fact is I and my passengers were put in harm's way because of the flawed battery. I expect Tesla to not just replace with the same flawed battery system. Trust me, if you'd been in the car when this happened you wouldn't be taking such a cavalier attitude with your safety. And I if I sound annoyed, it's because I am. And you can be sure the passengers, who were new to the Tesla thing, are not going to be spreading the good word.
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I understand that you are upset given the circumstances, but Tesla is fully capable of repairing what went wrong inside the battery. This does not mean there is anything else wrong with the battery. I wish you the best of luck in getting a new battery, but be aware that the warranty says that Tesla will repair or replace with a remanufactured unit. That means even a replacement battery may still be an 'A' revision pack, but with the problem addressed. If it's any consolation, there have been no other issues that I'm aware of with A or any other packs besides this contactor issue.
 
#30
AmpedRealtor said:
I understand that you are upset given the circumstances, but Tesla is fully capable of repairing what went wrong inside the battery. This does not mean there is anything else wrong with the battery. I wish you the best of luck in getting a new battery, but be aware that the warranty says that Tesla will repair or replace with a remanufactured unit. That means even a replacement battery may still be an 'A' revision pack, but with the problem addressed. If it's any consolation, there have been no other issues that I'm aware of with A or any other packs besides this contactor issue.
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You know, at the end of the day, this comes down, once again, to a problem with Tesla's lack of communication. I have had no discussion/statement from them stating what the problem was/is. And why repairing it is the right thing to do. My ICE car quits on the road, the service department will give you a detailed explanation of what went wrong. With the Tesla I know nothing beyond that it's being fixed by the factory. Trust me, in other words. Not in my nature.
 
#31
napabill said:
Spoken like a true B or better battery pack owner. But what they do with the A packs is not my concern. The fact is I and my passengers were put in harm's way because of the flawed battery. I expect Tesla to not just replace with the same flawed battery system. Trust me, if you'd been in the car when this happened you wouldn't be taking such a cavalier attitude with your safety. And I if I sound annoyed, it's because I am. And you can be sure the passengers, who were new to the Tesla thing, are not going to be spreading the good word.
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Sorry, but I still don't understand what "flawed battery system" you are referring to. The only wide-spread (I use that term loosely - I don't think it's really all that widespread) failure I'm aware of is contactor failures. If they replace your contactor with one that is brand new and the same as the contactor on a D pack, is there some other concern you have about the reliability of the rest of the A pack? If my pack had a flawed part, I'd like for it to be fixed just as much as you, but that doesn't mean I expect Tesla to replace the other 99% of my battery that has no flaws just because the 1% part is flawed. I would expect the flawed part to be fixed. No different than if an ICE had a problem with something critical like a valve or head gasket. I'd expect that those parts be fixed - not that I get a whole new engine.

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napabill said:
You know, at the end of the day, this comes down, once again, to a problem with Tesla's lack of communication. I have had no discussion/statement from them stating what the problem was/is. And why repairing it is the right thing to do. My ICE car quits on the road, the service department will give you a detailed explanation of what went wrong. With the Tesla I know nothing beyond that it's being fixed by the factory. Trust me, in other words. Not in my nature.
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I think this is fair to ask Tesla to tell you exactly what failed and what they did to fix it (and why they think you won't have a similar problem again). FWIW, I've generally received fairly detailed explanations for my service issues on the invoice including the list of all the parts that were replaced as part of the repair. If they repair your battery instead of replacing it, I'd expect you'd get a list of what was replaced. In fact, I would think you'd get more detail from a battery repair than a replacement because the replacement would just a single part for the repair - the new battery. So if details on what exactly went wrong is what you're looking for, I think you're better off getting it repaired.
 
#33
There are actually two contactors inside the D pack I disassembled, one for positive and one for negative. (I'd guess this is the same for all packs.) The one contactor was rated for 500A and the other for 1000A if I recall correctly.

2014-08-19%2019.36.14-1280.jpg


Images I post in this thread and my related commentary are posted and published by me, the original photographer. All copyrights and all other rights reserved. These images may not be copied or otherwise distributed outside of this forum without my express permission.


More pics in my tear down thread, Pics/Info: Inside the battery pack

The part numbers both end in "-A" on the contactors in the D pack I have... doesn't Tesla generally increment the letter when they make a revision? Could be that it is a new part for the D pack, but who knows.

Do cars with A packs make the double contactor sound when initializing? My Model S (with a D pack) always makes the two distinct closing sounds of the two different contactors (one after another) when engaging the high voltage system...
 
#34
As of this moment the extent of my knowledge on this is a statement by a junior Service Center employee, that the main pack is being sent to the factory to be repaired. Period. Trust me, the dialog will continue. But I've heard from others that disclosure of details, when the factory is involved, are scarce. But we shall see. You seem to to assume that I'm trying to "score" a new battery here. As I said at the outset, my concern is my safety and the safety of my passengers. And unless you've been through what happened I think you should consider getting off your high horse.:smile:
 
#35
napabill said:
As of this moment the extent of my knowledge on this is a statement by a junior Service Center employee, that the main pack is being sent to the factory to be repaired. Period. Trust me, the dialog will continue. But I've heard from others that disclosure of details, when the factory is involved, are scarce. But we shall see. You seem to to assume that I'm trying to "score" a new battery here. As I said at the outset, my concern is my safety and the safety of my passengers. And unless you've been through what happened I think you should consider getting off your high horse.:smile:
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I'm being reasonable and don't think I'm on any high horse. You are understandably upset because of what happened and your point of view is going to be skewed by those events, but I promise you I'm looking at this as objectively as possible. If you have some credible reason to believe that a B pack is somehow more safe than an A pack, you have all the right to make sure you get a B pack, but I'm just not seeing the evidence here.
 
#36
pgiralt said:
I'm being reasonable and don't think I'm on any high horse. You are understandably upset because of what happened and your point of view is going to be skewed by those events, but I promise you I'm looking at this as objectively as possible. If you have some credible reason to believe that a B pack is somehow more safe than an A pack, you have all the right to make sure you get a B pack, but I'm just not seeing the evidence here.
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I'll jump in here.

My A pack failed at an very dangerous moment in time, I suppose it could have been worse, say sitting on railroad tracks, but at least in that case I could have just stepped out of the car. I have never been able to receive any understanding of what went wrong.

With only a single exception, every other "A" pack owner I personally know has had their pack fail. Most times under poor circumstances, and involving long tow rides (mine was 6 hours).

Given Tesla position to not release any information about these types of failures, you are essentially asking for proof of a negative. If your life and your passengers lives had just been put in serious in danger, would you really accept your battery pack back?

Peter
 
#37
napabill said:
Does seem odd that they would go to the trouble of de-installing a battery, shipping it to Fremont, having it returned to SC, then having to arrange for my Tesla to be returned, with loaners involved on both ends. Then replacing the loaner battery in my car with my so-called fixed battery. I'm 50 miles from the SC so it all takes a lot of everyone's time.
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I'm with you, napabill. This procedure of loaner packs is something new and agree that it inconveniences everyone involved. Doesn't seem fair that others have had their packs swapped once and you have to go in twice.

Chris TX said:
A Packs make for great Tesla Home Energy Storage:

Solar Energy Storage for Home Battery Backup System | SolarCity
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Precisely. There are plenty of uses for spent A packs in grid storage (either Tesla themselves or Solar City).
 
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