Possible hidden costs

[vjason]

It wouldn't surprise me if they did, but then again Google lets you use that data for free via their app, including download portions for offline use (although the TOS does say they can send you ads). I could see that going either way (they pay vs. no pay).

My only thing with maps is that they are used to direct you to Superchargers, which makes them somewhat key to the experience (more so than free data for streaming music).

I would assume that the S and X will pave the way here; after all the warranties on the 3's wont start expiring for a good 5 years. The cost of mobile data may be next to nothing at that point (one can dream right?).

One of the many fallacies today is just because something is free for you in one case doesn't mean it's free all around. You may want to check the terms of use on the Google maps page. Tesla is definitely giving Google something for map data.

 

[Az_Rael]

I would assume that OTA updates and log files, etc will be included with the LTE service on the car. Google Maps, streaming, and other "non-essential" functions may well end up being charged. Many cars offer cell service now, and they are all on a paid subscription model. I would imagine you get the full cell service for free for some trial period, then you subscribe afterwards. The fact that they have mentioned this possibility for the Model S means it isn't off the table for any Tesla vehicle.

For offline map updates (the ones NAV uses), I wouldnt be upset to be charged for those. They cost Tesla $$, so why not pass that on to the customer since that is the industry standard. I have never owned a car that offered free map updates, so why should Tesla be any different?

Supercharger fees, is a whole different can of worms, and hopefully we will get some clarity during the 2nd reveal. I expect there to be some upfront fee/subscription/pay per use model, but who knows.

 

[Colsla]

1000 dollars for super charging for 1 yr? that is non sense. Tesla is trying to make EVs more affordable. No way they will charge 1k a year for Model 3 when Supercharging comes standard (included in the price of the battery) on S and X. and even 600 for 1yr of 4g sounds a bit expensive.

I pay 45 for cellular and 1gb of data per month, and I believe Goole offers data for 10 bucks per 1gb for Nexus 6P. Unless Tesla is trying to rip people off with data I dont think it will be that expensive.

I have never owned a car with Nav so I dont know what dealers charge for map updates but as per Tesla, Model S and X come with 7 yrs of free updates. As stated above Tesla is trying to make EV more affordable.. I dont think they will offer any less than 7 yrs or even 5 yrs with Model 3.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I guess I'm thinking of hidden costs more like

- How much is it going to cost to put a wall charger in the house ($600ish?)
- How much is charging at home going to add to my electric bill (from the tesla site I get about $350 per year)
- Am I going to buy into the Tesla maintenance plan ($2,100 for 4 years of prepaid maintenance)
- How much will my insurance go up on a $40,000 vehicle vs my current 2008 Mitsubishi that's worth maybe $7,000 now.
- Am I going to love the car so much (as others have said) that I"m going to wash it way more often than I wash my car now? At $10 per week that's over $500 per year
- Similar to the above will I go with that opticoat paint protectent that I hear so much about in the forums?
- Will the windows be tinted standard? If not what's that going to run me?

Did you add the consumable items - like tires?
Did you add the breakable items - like rims? Speed limits?
My wife would soon be dressing me in Tesla jackets/hats for hidden costs.
We might drive to new places, new roads just because driving is "free". there may be food, lodging, toy costs along the way.

As to the Wall Charger costing $600 - in my case, the cost of parts to instal a 14-50 socket in the garage is $500 for 50' trenching, conduit and wires into a sub panel. If I wanted to add a wall charger, I'd have to upsize the wiring in the trench to carry 100 amps ($500 in parts instead of $300 parts) I presume the electrician will still charge $200 to install 14-50 and/or wall charger. The wall charger costs $500 to $1000 - depending on which edition of web page you open. Full wall charger install at $600? double that

 

[ElectroFroggy]

One of the many fallacies today is just because something is free for you in one case doesn't mean it's free all around. You may want to check the terms of use on the Google maps page. Tesla is definitely giving Google something for map data.

Isn't Elon buddy buddy with Larry I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla is getting Google Maps for free. From a marketing stand point makes sense.

 

[Automaton]

I would not look fondly on Tesla should they decide to nickle and dime customers. If they were to start looking like that type of company (which they don't right now), I would likely rethink my reservation. A vehicle purchase is a long-term thing for most people, and $40k is also not cheap for most people either. Starting out on a bad foot with nickle and dimeing would make me wonder what else they will try to push off on me as far as possible denied warranty claims, and other hidden costs. By the way, I think charging a reasonable price for the electricity used at a supercharging station would be fine. This is no different than paying for gas with a gas-powered car. Charging for things that are even borderline unexpected is where they could hurt their reputation. If I have to pay extra to pick a color other than white, black, or some other mind-numbingly boring option, that would be disappointing as well.

 

[dhrivnak]

If you are not near a service center I found out Tesla raised their Ranger fees from $100 to $1000. So now minor service items are quite pricy. And since Tesla "highly" recommends the annual servicing at $600 pus transport that can add quite a bit to the cost of a car.

 

[Big-T]

Did you add the consumable items - like tires?
Did you add the breakable items - like rims? Speed limits?
My wife would soon be dressing me in Tesla jackets/hats for hidden costs.
We might drive to new places, new roads just because driving is "free". there may be food, lodging, toy costs along the way.

As to the Wall Charger costing $600 - in my case, the cost of parts to instal a 14-50 socket in the garage is $500 for 50' trenching, conduit and wires into a sub panel. If I wanted to add a wall charger, I'd have to upsize the wiring in the trench to carry 100 amps ($500 in parts instead of $300 parts) I presume the electrician will still charge $200 to install 14-50 and/or wall charger. The wall charger costs $500 to $1000 - depending on which edition of web page you open. Full wall charger install at $600? double that

No I'm only thinking of things that would be additional compared to the costs of my current gas car (or any other traditional car). The in home charger is a great example - everyone's saying "yaay! I'l never have to buy gas again" with many thinking the daily cost is essentially free. Tesla itself re-enforced this idea by building in your "gas savings" in the price on their website. Well, I drive about 8,000 miles per year and average about 24mpg right now. That's 333 gallons of gas per year. At $2.50 per gallon that's $832 per year on gas.

I'm no electrician, I'll have to pay one to come out and install a wall charger, when I add up the charger, the labor and electric to run it I'm going to spend more getting my charging situation set up and going the first year then I would on gas.

Another great example is the maintenance. The first one at 12 months is $600. I've owned a few new cars and never had I had to fork over $600 in the first year for a maintenance check. 2-3 oil changes is it, and that's WELL under $600

Your logic of
"We might drive to new places, new roads just because driving is "free". there may be food, lodging, toy costs along the way." is flawed.
I'd pay for food and lodging regardless of what kind of car I took a road trip with, it has no bearing on the hidden costs of owning an EV.

No one on these forums is arguing that Telsa isn't a great car, or that they aren't excited to get it. I'm just saying there are going to be more "hidden" outlays of cash for this car that I think get glossed over. That was the title of the thread

 

[Az_Rael]

If I have to pay extra to pick a color other than white, black, or some other mind-numbingly boring option, that would be disappointing as well.

You may find yourself disappointed. Tesla is following BMW's model right now which does involve nickel and diming for all options. The only included paint color on the Model S and X is white or black. All others cost extra starting at $1000.

 

[S'toon]

No I'm only thinking of things that would be additional compared to the costs of my current gas car (or any other traditional car). The in home charger is a great example - everyone's saying "yaay! I'l never have to buy gas again" with many thinking the daily cost is essentially free. Tesla itself re-enforced this idea by building in your "gas savings" in the price on their website. Well, I drive about 8,000 miles per year and average about 24mpg right now. That's 333 gallons of gas per year. At $2.50 per gallon that's $832 per year on gas.

I'm no electrician, I'll have to pay one to come out and install a wall charger, when I add up the charger, the labor and electric to run it I'm going to spend more getting my charging situation set up and going the first year then I would on gas.

Another great example is the maintenance. The first one at 12 months is $600. I've owned a few new cars and never had I had to fork over $600 in the first year for a maintenance check. 2-3 oil changes is it, and that's WELL under $600

Your logic of
"We might drive to new places, new roads just because driving is "free". there may be food, lodging, toy costs along the way." is flawed.
I'd pay for food and lodging regardless of what kind of car I took a road trip with, it has no bearing on the hidden costs of owning an EV.

No one on these forums is arguing that Telsa isn't a great car, or that they aren't excited to get it. I'm just saying there are going to be more "hidden" outlays of cash for this car that I think get glossed over. That was the title of the thread

I'd say this is a legitimate critique. As opposed to the rampant speculation based on nothing by the OP.

 

[HanSolo]

I think you guys are getting too worked up. It is fun to talk about the what if's, but we just don't know right now. So long as Tesla doesn't go bankrupt between now and 2018(when I really believe the M3 will launch in any decent quantity), the good news is that the deposit is refundable. If the M3 ends up not being what you hoped, there will be more EV options available by then on the market. Everyone is beginning to resort to the Porsche/Ford model of pricing options because that is becoming the only way to make your margins. It is the art of the up-sell and for you TSLA enthusiasts, that is going to be how Tesla works to fulfill their mission to becoming profitable and thus changing the way we travel.

 

[diamond.g]

You may find yourself disappointed. Tesla is following BMW's model right now which does involve nickel and diming for all options. The only included paint color on the Model S and X is white or black. All others cost extra starting at $1000.

I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when the 3's option pricing is announced. For some reason folks seem to think this is going to be like Honda Civic pricing and not BMW pricing.

 

[Automaton]

For some reason folks seem to think this is going to be like Honda Civic pricing and not BMW pricing.

Probably has something to do with Tesla's hype that this car was going to be affordable for the masses. There is some wiggle room with that definition, but there is also a fairly well understood picture of such a car in the minds of "the masses." $35k already pushes that envelope. Also, cars that the masses can afford don't usually require thousands of dollars worth of options just to compete with alternative cars on things like range, or require $1000 upgrades for things like non-white/black paint.

 

[HanSolo]

Probably has something to do with Tesla's hype that this car was going to be affordable for the masses. There is some wiggle room with that definition, but there is also a fairly well understood picture of such a car in the minds of "the masses." $35k already pushes that envelope. Also, cars that the masses can afford don't usually require thousands of dollars worth of options just to compete with alternative cars on things like range, or require $1000 upgrades for things like non-white/black paint.

That is it. Elon is an idealist who I am sure is not concerned with reality too much. I believe he pays people who are employed to keep his visions within the scope of feasibility. The reality is that his wording and marketing thus far will have lead people to take the interpretation very strictly about this being a car for the masses. Remember back in the old days when VW strongly used that marketing technique for being for the masses? Just because the average transaction price of a car being sold today is around $30+k does that mean it represents the masses. Look at how many $70k Ford F150's and $77k Ford Superduties could be factored into that price depending on the methodology used.

This will be the first EV of its kind in the entry level luxury arena. Yes you can buy that $35k BMW stripper or that $29k Benz stripper, but will you be happy with it is the question. $35k will buy you a VERY nicely equipped Ford Fusion and even a very nicely equipped Ford Fusion Energi plugin if Ford still qualifies for PHEV tax credits.

 

[Luke42]

100 - one year of map updates

We went 12 years without updating the map in our Prius because the map CD cost $300. "My Smartphone does that"

We kept thinking about getting the update, because out-of-date maps suck, but we never pulled the trigger. Also, it didn't seem like the dealers really wanted to sell it to us. The service people would shoo you over to the parts counter, and the parts people would look at you funny when you asked about it.

The value proposition for ongoing revenue has to be crystal clear. Creating artificial barriers so that you can charge me for something I can get for almost-free from elsewhere just isn't going to open my wallet. "My smartphone and a suction cup does that just fine."

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Tesla may use Model 3 owners as an on going revenue stream. This likely required to keep the price low. How would everyone feel about the following charges?

$100 - one year of map updates
$600 - one year of 4G data
$1000 - one year of local supercharging (superchargers < 60 miles from your home)

It should be noted none of this is required. You can continue to use the outdated maps for free. You can use WiFi tethering on your phone and connect to your home WiFi for other updates. Lastly you don't have to use the local superchargers (long distance superchargers would be free).

Also did I miss anything Tesla could charge yearly for?

As long as they're optional, I'm OK with them. The first two are marked up a crazy amount IMO, but as long as I drove more than ~15k miles/year, local supercharger access might be less expensive. Course, I'd go with solar panels instead in a heartbeat, but if those weren't an option, then I could see paying that for a year of unlimited local supercharger access.

 

[Luke42]

For some reason folks seem to think this is going to be like Honda Civic pricing and not BMW pricing.

Being nickeled and dimed by BMW options is one reason I haven't bought one. Being nickeled and dimed is not a luxurious experience for me.

I've been up and down the SES ladder many times during my life, and I can almost instantly change from affluent thinking to frugal thinking when promted. If you randomly promt me to evaluate whatever it is you're upselling, I lose my luxury frame of mind and I turn into a value shopper right-quick.

Charging lots of money for things that are standard on Toyotas (like backup cameras) turns me into a value shopper, and luxury brands don't look too good when viewed through a value shopper's eyes.

The other reason I've neve bought a BMW is that they never put anything interesting under the hood for a price I was willing to pay. Tesla wins there!!!

 

[HanSolo]

Being nickeled and dimed by BMW options is one reason I haven't bought one. Being nickeled and dimed is not a luxurious experience for me.

I've been up and down the SES ladder many times during my life, and I can almost instantly change from affluent thinking to frugal thinking when promted. If you randomly promt me to evaluate whatever it is you're upselling, I lose my luxury frame of mind and I turn into a value shopper right-quick.

Charging lots of money for things that are standard on Toyotas (like backup cameras) turns me into a value shopper, and luxury brands don't look too good when viewed through a value shopper's eyes.

The other reason I've neve bought a BMW is that they never put anything interesting under the hood for a price I was willing to pay. Tesla wins there!!!

I disagree with you. They have always put VERY interesting things under the hood of their cars. The problem is the price you have to pay to get those optional engines, and then I always know that I would have trouble affording the upkeep on it when it goes out of warranty. BMW powertrain and drivetrain repair costs are no joke on any of the German luxury brands.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

I think the 'willing to pay for' qualifier excludes the interesting stuff under the hood from BMW.

 

[Luke42]

I disagree with you. They have always put VERY interesting things under the hood of their cars. The problem is the price you have to pay...

Speaking for myself, the only BMW enginrs I found even the least bit interesting were the diesels.

I saw a picture of a gasoline powered twin turbo V8 in one of their cars once. Tracing the plumbing to figure out what I was lookijg at was fun, but that was the extent of the fun I was likely to have with that car. I can see how someone who isn't me would find it interesting, but I'd probably be done with it after an hour on the track. V8s have been around since before my father was born, and stuffing extra air into it isn't really breaking new technological ground. Horsepower contests just turn into a contest to see who can write a bigger check, and winning that sort of contest is a Pyrrhic victory (at best). I'd much rather match the right car to the right job.

Efficiency, on the other hand, is something you have to he smart to achieve.