Power steering has gone and its going to cost me to get it to Tesla Service...

[justinhow]

Yeah, but it's a straight road

But seriously, why did you contact Glasgow SC and not go straight on to Roadside Assistance?

I missed this post.
I can't really just turn up (tow truck or driving) at Glasgow SC as I need to arrange a loan car with them if at all possible that I pick up at the same time (being 85 miles away). Also they then said as I am over 50 miles blah blah - this turned out to be incorrect but took me a while to check it.
Lastly they make the roadside assistance service clear that it is for emergencies when stuck on a road, and my car was in my drive so may not have been happy with that.

 

[init6]

Lastly they make the roadside assistance service clear that it is for emergencies when stuck on a road, and my car was in my drive so may not have been happy with that.

That's not true:

Towing
For vehicles that cannot be driven as a result of a malfunction attributable to a warrantable issue, Tesla covers transportation services for the first 500 miles (800 km)* to the nearest Tesla Service Center.

Edit: full details here

 

[justinhow]

That's not true:

OK got you - that is what I am requesting. The loan car is slowing things down as well as Tesla's own service process.
I may actually drive it in now as currently the PS is working again (touch wood) - but they still need to sort the loan car.

 

[justinhow]

This is an interesting news story in relation to my PS issues: U.S. safety agency deepens probe of Tesla power steering loss

 

[GlynG]

Any car with assisted steering is perfectly safe to drive without the assistance working - you just need to adapt your driving style to suit the conditions. Over 15mph the steering will feel nearly the same as assisted because assistance starts to be reduced as you speed up, On A roads and Motorway speeds the steering will normal.

It is safe to drive, parking however will be very heavy but still quite manageable. Its alarming when this happens and people do regard it as a safety issue but only because they are used to the level of assistance.

 

[justinhow]

I hate take issue with you on this but this is clearly an inaccurate statement.
It all depends upon the strength and fitness of the driver and the weight of the car.
Put an 70 year old 5ft 50Kg women behind a Bentley Continental with no power steering and I would be surprised if she could make any steering adjustment at all at low speed.
So it may be safe but it may not be - this is exactly why there is an investigation into this exact issue with Tesla Model 3/Y in the US. The PS failure appears to be linked to some accidents. U.S. safety agency deepens probe of Tesla power steering loss and I quote "Some Tesla owners reported an inability to turn the steering wheel while others reported an increase in required effort"
I personally tried to drive my Model 3 with PS failure and I regard it as unsafe at low speed because of the weight of the steering.

 

[Js1977]

It all depends upon the strength and fitness of the driver and the weight of the car.
Put an 70 year old 5ft 50Kg women behind a Bentley Continental with no power steering and I would be surprised if she could make any steering adjustment at all at low speed.

I dont think anyone will argue with you if you are feeble

 

[GlynG]

I hate take issue with you on this but this is clearly an inaccurate statement.
It all depends upon the strength and fitness of the driver and the weight of the car.
Put an 70 year old 5ft 50Kg women behind a Bentley Continental with no power steering and I would be surprised if she could make any steering adjustment at all at low speed.
So it may be safe but it may not be - this is exactly why there is an investigation into this exact issue with Tesla Model 3/Y in the US. The PS failure appears to be linked to some accidents. U.S. safety agency deepens probe of Tesla power steering loss and I quote "Some Tesla owners reported an inability to turn the steering wheel while others reported an increase in required effort"
I personally tried to drive my Model 3 with PS failure and I regard it as unsafe at low speed because of the weight of the steering.

A 70yr old female whatever height or weight really struggles with all manoeuvring of a car in all circumstances, indeed most females of any age cant reverse. I'm just trying to imagine the woman you describe in a Continental - she wouldn't even see over the dashboard - wouldn't stop her driving of course.

Seriously though - when assisted steering was introduced albeit it was hydraulic at the time they were designed to function safely even if assistance failed, however, it did allow smaller diameter steering wheels and wider tyres to be fitted plus a quicker rack ratio - so when it failed it was harder to turn than cars built without any power steering.

I wonder what the back up is for steer by wire - like the cybertrough? no mechanical connection at all.

 

[justinhow]

In my opinion there should be a standard test that cars need to pass that they are still safe/manageable to drive (for 90%+ of drivers) to allow the driver to at least drive to a a safe place to park up in case of a failure of the PS. I am not aware any such test exists in the UK/EU/US. I suspect some modern cars would struggle to do this safely.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of the investigation being done by the US NHTSA into this issue with Teslas.

 

[init6]

UN Regulation 79 details the requirements. Table 2 shows the requirements for effort needed to control the steering both when the steering is intact and with a failure.

 

[justinhow]

UN Regulation 79 details the requirements. Table 2 shows the requirements for effort needed to control the steering both when the steering is intact and with a failure.

This does not appear to provide confirmation of any such test - in fact it surely makes matters even worse:

"Advancing technology, coupled with the wish to improve occupant safety by elimination of the mechanical steering column, and the production advantages associated with easier transfer of the steering control between left and right hand drive vehicles, has led to a review of the traditional approach and the Regulation is now amended to take account of the new technologies. Accordingly it will now be possible to have steering systems in which there is not any positive mechanical connection between the steering control and the road wheels."

So given a failure of the power steering in cars where there "is not any positive mechanical connection between the steering control and the road wheels" how can one possibly safely control the car?
I will state here and now I am not reading 49 pages of dense UN regulation so may be they manage to tackle it somehow.
From what I can see the EU (and UK) are signatories to this regulation but not the US.

 

[init6]

I will state here and now I am not reading 49 pages of dense UN regulation so may be they manage to tackle it somehow.

They do.

From what I can see the EU (and UK) are signatories to this regulation but not the US.

A car can't be sold in the EU or UK unless it conforms to these regs.

 

[justinhow]

Well they don't work very well then as I have tried to drive my Tesla Model 3 with failed PS and its a nightmare at low speed.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Well they don't work very well then as I have tried to drive my Tesla Model 3 with failed PS and its a nightmare at low speed.

It's not intended to be easy or pleasant, just enough to get you to the side of the road. The most dangerous place to lose steering would be at high speeds, but at those speeds, power steering contributes the least.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

5.3.3.4. In the event of a failure within the energy transmission, with the exception of
those parts listed in paragraph 5.3.1.1., there shall not be any immediate
changes in steering angle. As long as the vehicle is capable of being driven at
a speed greater than 10 km/h the requirements of paragraph 6. for the system
with a failure shall be met after the completion of at least 25 "figure of eight"
manoeuvres at 10 km/h minimum speed, where each loop of the figure is
40 m diameter.

That's why there are so few steer by wire systems.. that test is damned hard to engineer past.

 

[ParaAdBellum]

hit the same problem on my 2020 model 3. Scheduled service for next week. Any idea if power steering is covered under warranty?

 

[justinhow]

Power steering should absolutely be covered by your 5 year warranty

 

[MrBadger]

Power steering should absolutely be covered by your 5 year warranty

It’s 4 years and mileage limited.

But yes, should be covered by a valid warranty.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

This situation is a lot simpler than some are making out.
If your power steering fails and you feel you cannot safely control the vehicle, just pull over and get the car recovered.
On the other hand, if you feel you can safely drive it to a SC to get it fixed then do that.

There are other failures (ABS, TC etc.) which can happen with a Model 3 or any other car which might make it difficult to drive, or you may feel makes it more dangerous to drive, but you do your own risk assessment at the time and decide on the best course of action.

If a wheel fell off your car on a motorway/freeway, would you stop immediately because it's no longer easy/safe to drive or would you be better off getting it to the hard shoulder/center divide out of the traffic flow? Some drivers just aren't capable of thinking that way in the first place and would feeze and abandon the car wherever it stopped. Others could deal with the situation calmly and have enough experience and car control to get it safely out of harms way avoiding perhaps a much more serious situation.

We can't keep hoping someone else (especially the UN!) will make driving 100% safe and foolproof and cars 100% reliable through rules, regs and engineering. Not going to happen ever. Even aircraft have freak or human-related failures (I'm looking at you 737 MAX!)

 

[justinhow]

Well feedback on this issue with my Model 3.
According to the Glasgow Tesla mechanic looking at my car this issue looks like it was a firmware update not completing correctly.
After it was installed it failed to reboot part of the electronics/computer which that left that part 'hungup', it not having be re-initialised correctly after the update.
This fixed itself a day later by either a firmware update or it righting itself for some reason. Timing is not entirely clear on this. He also said that this part of the system is not re-initialised by the 10 sec standard reboot, and would really require either another firmware update, or a Tesla mobile technician to initiate a hard reset. He accepted that there was an issue with some cars and power steering failure (water ingress and then corrosion on the electrical connectors and earthing) but said that had been fixed by the time my car was manufactured (2021 Model 3).
Most of this makes sense to me although I think the system had fixed itself before the 2nd firmware update arrived. Difficult to be sure though.
Anyway essentially no fault found. Waiting for final confirmation today.