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Price for 6/3 and 4/3
- Thread starter edulinka
- Start date
) Any links?Copper or Aluminum? Right now Aluminum wire is much cheaper than Copper wire.
Non Metallic (NM-B) (Romex type wire):
NM-3 Copper 6/3 - $10/ft (500ft reel)
NM-B Copper 4/3 - $26/ft (125ft reel)
NM-B Aluminum 4/3 - $7/ft (1000 ft)
Crescent Electric Supply Company - Cesco.com
I don't know if these prices are even close.
Non Metallic (NM-B) (Romex type wire):
NM-3 Copper 6/3 - $10/ft (500ft reel)
NM-B Copper 4/3 - $26/ft (125ft reel)
NM-B Aluminum 4/3 - $7/ft (1000 ft)
Crescent Electric Supply Company - Cesco.com
I don't know if these prices are even close.
If you check Home Depot prices the cost of NM-B stranded copper 6/3 wire varies from $4.19/ft. to $6.19/ft. NM-B stranded copper 4/3 wire is $10.74/ft (500 ft reel.) So yes, 4/3 wire can cost more than twice as much as 6/3 wire.
By contrast, Aluminum 4-4-4-6 SER wire costs just $1.02/ft; SER wire is used for above ground service entrance cable, a panel feeder and in branch circuits. An electrician installing a sub panel in a garage could use Aluminum SER wire between the main service panel and the sub panel as the Aluminum wire is much less expensive than 4/3 copper wire.
By contrast, Aluminum 4-4-4-6 SER wire costs just $1.02/ft; SER wire is used for above ground service entrance cable, a panel feeder and in branch circuits. An electrician installing a sub panel in a garage could use Aluminum SER wire between the main service panel and the sub panel as the Aluminum wire is much less expensive than 4/3 copper wire.
That said - you're not supposed to use Aluminum wire to go directly to the wall connector. Good for a subpanel, not good for wiring directly to TWC
Johnny Vector
Member
Yeah, only use aluminum wire if you verify that both ends will be connecting to devices rated for aluminum wire. The Hubbell/Bryant receptacles are copper-only, and I believe Thawk is right that the TWC is copper only.
Never ever use aluminum wire with copper-only devices!
We talk a lot around here about using the right gauge wire, because there is a small chance that if you slightly exceed the rating you might cause a fire. Connecting aluminum wire to copper-only devices is more or less guaranteed to damage the device or cause a fire eventually. Might take 10 or 15 years, but it'll happen. I lived in a house from the 70's with aluminum wire everywhere, and by the time I got there in 1992 there were already several outlets that were charred and cracked and had to be replaced.
Never ever use aluminum wire with copper-only devices!
We talk a lot around here about using the right gauge wire, because there is a small chance that if you slightly exceed the rating you might cause a fire. Connecting aluminum wire to copper-only devices is more or less guaranteed to damage the device or cause a fire eventually. Might take 10 or 15 years, but it'll happen. I lived in a house from the 70's with aluminum wire everywhere, and by the time I got there in 1992 there were already several outlets that were charred and cracked and had to be replaced.
Lowes near me sells 6/2 Romex by the foot, so you can buy exactly as much as you need. In May it was $2.50 a foot, not sure what it goes for now.
Amazingly, when you buy wire by the foot from them, you can return what you don't use for a refund. I bought 25 ft to be safe and returned 10 ft of it since I had a short run. I didn't expect they would let me return it so I was pleasantly surprised they did.
Amazingly, when you buy wire by the foot from them, you can return what you don't use for a refund. I bought 25 ft to be safe and returned 10 ft of it since I had a short run. I didn't expect they would let me return it so I was pleasantly surprised they did.
Jigglypuff
Member
I wouldn't bother going to 4 gauge unless you know for sure that you are going to need extra fast charge times and regularly driving long distances day after day. 72.5kwh of usable storage. Typically charged to 80%. 58kwh actual charging. A normal 30amp, 7.2kw charger fills that up in about 8 hours.
For most people, a 120v charge is sufficient for day to day use. The days you drive less allow the charging to catch up.
For most people, a 120v charge is sufficient for day to day use. The days you drive less allow the charging to catch up.
My electrician suggests 6/3 wire with 60 amp breaker. My wire length about 60 feet in unfinish basement to garage. I just did think what will be price difference from 6/3 to 4/3 (I did not asked my electrician yet) Only wall charger will be on this wire
Jigglypuff
Member
The price difference will depend on your electrician and the local market, I'd think. It's also harder to work with 4/3, so wire cost isn't the only issue. Might need larger conduit, which adds cost. Many other possible factors go into it. I'd go with the electrician's recommendation unless you have an overriding reason not to.
Then don't use that guy!
Seriously, this frequent code violation of trying to use NM-B 6 gauge for 60A circuits is making me angry. Wire in conduit would be fine, but if someone is talking about wire in conduit, they usually wouldn't use the terminology "6/3", so I'm pretty sure he's referring to Romex.
Another thing; if you are installing the Tesla Wall Connector (any hard wired Level 2 EVSE) then you would not need to use 3 conductor wire. The Neutral wire is not needed in this case so X/2 wire is all that is required. Given the current cost of copper wire this would definitely save some money when purchasing 60 feet of wire. If the electrician is planning to install 6 gauge NM-B (i.e. Romex) wire then it is only rated for a maximum of 55 amps, not adequate for a circuit rated for 60 amps. Perhaps the electrician was already planning on using metallic clad (MC) wire (sometimes call Armored wire although they are not the same.) MC wire does not require conduit (it has its own metallic protective covering) and is designed to be installed indoors, above ground, in any dry (not wet, not damp) location. An unfinished basement or an attic would be perfect for MC wire. 6 gauge MC wire is adequate for a 60 amp circuit.
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EVer Hopeful
Active Member
I don't disagree, but there's always the option of anti-ox with a pigtail . . . although perhaps not with 6 gauge !
EVer Hopeful
Active Member
ok, I'm confused now because six is six. Do you mean Romex is bad and separate conductors is ok, because:
(i) the separate conductors are not enclosed in a jacket so can dissipate heat better, or
(ii) the separate conductors are stranded or
(iii) the insulation on the separate conductors can withstand a higher heat
The ampacity charts clearly state that NM-B (Romex) in 6 gauge is rated for a maximum of 55 amps. Other types of wire, in 6 gauge, depending on the maximum temperature for the application may be rated for higher amperage.
Cerrowire Resources - Ampacity Charts
Cerrowire Resources - Ampacity Charts
Jigglypuff
Member
When an electrician says 6/3, they mean romex, which is a specific packaging of three wires that are 6 gauge together. It's a brand, really, but like Xerox, romex has become to mean the type of product, not just the brand.
But then you can have 2 wires in an armored cable, or 2 wires in another situation. And so on. I don't think 3 wires is a bad idea since you may want to change to some other system in the future. In that case, having 3 wires could help, like if you switch to some kind of dryer plug. Call it future proofing. Also it could be a matter of local code.
But then you can have 2 wires in an armored cable, or 2 wires in another situation. And so on. I don't think 3 wires is a bad idea since you may want to change to some other system in the future. In that case, having 3 wires could help, like if you switch to some kind of dryer plug. Call it future proofing. Also it could be a matter of local code.
The temperature is how warm the wire can safely get when passing a current before the insulation starts to break down, melt. This can easily lead to a short circuit and start an electrical fire.
So say after he will finish installation and will measure temperature(while charging car) and it is not will be hot it should be OK ? Right?
Maybe; it still would not be within the electrical code. If there is ever a fire that can be traced to the improper size or type of wire then an insurance company would not be obligated to pay for the repairs from the fire.
The maximum temperature limit also considers the possible environment such as a hot attic, in summer, where the surrounding temperature in the attic space can make the temperature of the wire even higher.
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