Purchasing a buyback/lemon - great deal or total disaster?

[Vino&chanel]

Recently came across a 2013 Model S P85 w/ 80k miles, has all of the features that I want. Looked at the Carfax and saw that the title is labeled as Manufacturer Buyback. I reached out to the dealership and was told the buyback occurred in December 2019, issue was with the software which took over 30 days to get the upgrade to fix the issue, so the customer was able to take advantage of the buyback/lemon law in California. (Considering the year of the car I wonder if this was done to be able to get out of this one and into a newer one?) Dealer also told me that he has all the paperwork from Tesla to show exactly what happened, etc. and that vehicle has been inspected thoroughly since and the issue has been resolved. Other recent repairs include door handles and steering rack fixed under warranty.

Usually I would not consider a vehicle with this branded title, but due to the fact it was not a mechanical issue of any kind I feel "safer" about considering purchasing this vehicle. It also has a 12 month/12,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on top of the standard 8 year factory warranty. Does anyone have any experience or opinions on this? Am I potentially getting a great deal due to an unfortunate software issue or am I walking into a total disaster here?

I should also add that I realize one of the biggest challenges would be if I wanted to sell it or trade it in down the road. My intentions are to drive this car as long as possible so I don't know how much of an issue that really would be for me.

 

[malcolm]

One man's lemon is another man's lemonade.

 

[Tam]

...It also has a 12 month/12,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on top of the standard 8 year factory warranty...

Kind of unusual. Tesla new warranty is 4 years/50,000 miles. How do you get "the standard 8 year factory warranty"?

If it's covered by warranty, I am fine with it!

 

[kizamybute']

Keep in mind, that title history will be with the car forever. Thus, you'll always have to answer for it if you go to resell the car and will likely impact resale value. Better be a heck of a discount in price to warrant it.

 

[Vino&chanel]

One man's lemon is another man's lemonade.

LOL. I like that. Let's just hope the lemon isn't sour ha!

 

[Vino&chanel]

Kind of unusual. Tesla new warranty is 4 years/50,000 miles. How do you get "the standard 8 year factory warranty"?

If it's covered by warranty, I am fine with it!

Sorry am a noob w/ all of this... 8 yr warranty on battery on drive train I believe it is?

 

[Vino&chanel]

Keep in mind, that title history will be with the car forever. Thus, you'll always have to answer for it if you go to resell the car and will likely impact resale value. Better be a heck of a discount in price to warrant it.

Yes, this is definitely a concern. I am looking to buy a car that I can keep for its lifetime. The scary part I guess is that if this car ends up being a hot mess I am stuck with it and will have to take a big loss to get rid of it.

 

[swegman]

Would not surprise me if the battery is capped and that had something to do with the owner forcing a buyback.

I have a 2013 P85 with about 65K mikes and the voltage on the battery pack has been capped to approximately 4.1 Volts per cell instead of the normal 4.2 volts per cell. As a result, I lost 31 miles of range. This is referred to as batterygate and there is a class action lawsuit over it.

These cars are also subject to chargegate in which the charging speed at the superchargers are reduced.

I suggest you get an OBDLink scanner with a suitable adapter cable and a copy of ScanMyTesla for an Android phone. Check what the cell voltage of the battery pack is at a 100% SOC and what it indicates the range of the battery pack to be. If the cell voltage is significantly less than 4.2 volts (such as 4.1 volts or less) run away from the car.

 

[swegman]

Sorry am a noob w/ all of this... 8 yr warranty on battery on drive train I believe it is?

There is no such thing as a drivetrain warranty on a Tesla. It is the drive unit (and only the drive unit), plus the battery, that has an 8 year warranty. In addition, there is a user that has leaky seals on his drive unit and Tesla says that the seals are not covered by the drive unit warranty. There is a thread on this website about it.

 

[Vino&chanel]

There is no such thing as a drivetrain warranty on a Tesla. It is the drive unit (and only the drive unit), plus the battery, that has an 8 year warranty. In addition, there is a user that has leaky seals on his drive unit and Tesla says that the seals are not covered by the drive unit warranty. There is a thread on this website about it.

Ok sorry, yes. As I said, I'm new to the Tesla world still learning about everything.

 

[Vino&chanel]

Would not surprise me if the battery is capped and that had something to do with the owner forcing a buyback.

I have a 2013 P85 with about 65K mikes and the voltage on the battery pack has been capped to approximately 4.1 Volts per cell instead of the normal 4.2 volts per cell. As a result, I lost 31 miles of range. This is referred to as batterygate and there is a class action lawsuit over it.

These cars are also subject to chargegate in which the charging speed at the superchargers are reduced.

I suggest you get an OBDLink scanner with a suitable adapter cable and a copy of ScanMyTesla for an Android phone. Check what the cell voltage of the battery pack is at a 100% SOC and what it indicates the range of the battery pack to be. If the cell voltage is significantly less than 4.2 volts (such as 4.1 volts or less) run away from the car.

Unfortunately the car is in San Diego and I am in Phoenix. Maybe this is something the dealer would be able to provide me with?

 

[Tam]

...My intentions are to drive this car as long as possible so I don't know how much of an issue that really would be for me.

You no longer have the 4 year 50,000 mile standard warranty.

You might have 8 year infinite mile warranty on drive unit and main battery.

But other parts might fail which can be costly:

1) $4,500 heater
2) $3,800 Air Conditioner
3) MCU (Main Computer Unit--17" screen module): Do-It-Yourself can cost around $399 but if you let Tesla do it, it'll cost you about $1,800. That's only for a memory chip alone, if you need to replace the screen, that's extra.
4) $2800 On-board Charger

 

[IslandHydro]

You haven't mentioned the offered price, which is a huge factor on whether this seems like a reasonable risk or not...

 

[Vino&chanel]

You haven't mentioned the offered price, which is a huge factor on whether this seems like a reasonable risk or not...

Sorry! Yes. It is listed at $29k.

 

[Tam]

Sorry! Yes. It is listed at $29k.

I hope you have some money saved in case your battery will be out of warranty in 2021.

The quoted price is $25,000 last year.

 

[Vino&chanel]

I hope you have some money saved in case your battery will be out of warranty in 2021.

The quoted price is $25,000 last year.

ouch

 

[swegman]

Sorry! Yes. It is listed at $29k.

I don’t think $29K for a 2013 P85 with 80K miles and a buyback title that does not have an extended warranty on the entire vehicle is an exceptionally good price to rake a chance on. Repairs, such as extending door handles, touchscreen, MCU, charge port, chargers (located under the rear seats), etc can be very expensive.

Plus you don’t know whether the battery has been capped and whether it’s charging speed has been reduced.

I would not trust a dealer to tell you the condition of the battery pack. You can not rely on the range indicator being accurate. The only way to know the condition of the battery is via Tesla doing a battery test (waste of time as they always say the battery is fine) or via ScanMyTesla or a similar iPhone app (can’t recall the app name).

 

[cwerdna]

Besides the expensive bits that might fail that swegman and Tam mentioned, there's also:
Clunking sound is costing me a bundle to fix out of warranty (half shafts)

IIRC, door handles are ~$800 a piece unless you can get some parts fixed cheaply (e.g. broken wire or worn gear) instead of replacing the whole handle.

If these don't get covered by warranty or if there doesn't end up being a recall on these:
Cracked forelink?
Another front suspension control arm failure

I would steer clear of lemon law buybacks. There's no guarantee that whatever was wrong was fixed and that it won't be a money pit and headache for you.

Do you just want an EV w/long range or are there specific things about the Model S that you want (e.g. size, "prestige", styling, Supercharger network, etc.)? For instance, 2020 Bolts (259 mile EPA range rating) can be had new for cheap: New Chevy Vehicles in MA at Quirk Chevy MA. (Yes, I know they're in MA.) Add $1500 to each price as they deducted a $1500 trade in discount. Chevrolet Bolt - Page 224 - My Nissan Leaf Forum claims they're a legit dealer. If you have sufficient tax liability for 2020, you can then claim the $1875 Federal tax credit (Tax Incentives).

Sure, it's much smaller than an S, the DC FC speed is inferior, the DC FC network available is inferior, etc. but it's new, and has a full warranty (3 years/36K bumper to bumper, 8 years/100K on the HV battery and EV bits). And, Bolts have battery thermal management.

 

[Vino&chanel]

I don’t think $29K for a 2013 P85 with 80K miles and a buyback title that does not have an extended warranty on the entire vehicle is an exceptionally good price to rake a chance on. Repairs, such as extending door handles, touchscreen, MCU, charge port, chargers (located under the rear seats), etc can be very expensive.

Plus you don’t know whether the battery has been capped and whether it’s charging speed has been reduced.

I would not trust a dealer to tell you the condition of the battery pack. You can not rely on the range indicator being accurate. The only way to know the condition of the battery is via Tesla doing a battery test (waste of time as they always say the battery is fine) or via ScanMyTesla or a similar iPhone app (can’t recall the app name).

You make some really great points. I also felt the price was a little high considering anything. The price of those repairs is painful...

I liked the fact that it did have a 12 month bumper to bumper which I felt like at least protects me for a year. But after that and then especially after the 8 yr warranty is up and that really makes me nervous.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

You no longer have the 4 year 50,000 mile standard warranty.

You might have 8 year infinite mile warranty on drive unit and main battery.

But other parts might fail which can be costly:

1) $4,500 heater
2) $3,800 Air Conditioner
3) MCU (Main Computer Unit--17" screen module): Do-It-Yourself can cost around $399 but if you let Tesla do it, it'll cost you about $1,800. That's only for a memory chip alone, if you need to replace the screen, that's extra.
4) $2800 On-board Charger

I believe Tesla can give a warranty of 12 mo / 12k miles on anything they want