Purchasing a M3 that's only been supercharged

[dmurphy]

If he truly never charged it above 80 percent, the pack will be unbalanced like crazy. You'll need to run it to very nearly zero percent and full charge to 100 percent at least once to get it straightened out.

The pack balancing really has nothing to do with running down low. It *does* run when the pack is above 85% state of charge, and the vehicle is sleeping. And it takes days to rebalance - it's not a one shot deal.

So the best option is really to set the charging percentage to 90% and just leave it alone for several weeks.

 

[Az_Rael]

Will that cause a problem with Supercharging it on the way home?

Shouldn't, but you should probably plan to do the prepaid Visa option just to make sure.

 

[Fresnel]

Unless Model 3 have a hard chargegate cap on DC charging (too soon to tell) I would not worry about it.

If you supercharge a ton and you go to supercharge there will be a message saying something like charging limited because of supercharging a lot. The car/battery knows that its been too much and it will automatically lower the charge rate so it doesn't hurt the battery. If the car has this which I doubt it does the main downside will be if you go to a supercharger the charge speed will be reduced. Again I doubt this is the case because the car is so low miles.

 

[ElectricIAC]

If you supercharge a ton and you go to supercharge there will be a message saying something like charging limited because of supercharging a lot. The car/battery knows that its been too much and it will automatically lower the charge rate so it doesn't hurt the battery. If the car has this which I doubt it does the main downside will be if you go to a supercharger the charge speed will be reduced. Again I doubt this is the case because the car is so low miles.

I don’t believe chargegate has been confirmed with the model 3 yet like with S/X.

 

[raptor5244]

The ironic thing is Tesla gives us the ability to Supercharge, which is a great and makes owning an electric vehicle realistic for a lot of folks but then it sounds like no one wants a used EV that has been Supercharged too much. Has there been any studies that indicate Supercharging has any meaningful impact on battery life?

Moving forward with many more EVs hitting the market shouldn't we expect to see a lot more public fast chargers? Won't fast charging be the norm? I would charge faster at home if I could but we are limited to the 32amp or 48amp onboard charger on the Model 3s.

 

[Watts_Up]

The pack balancing really has nothing to do with running down low. It *does* run when the pack is above 85% state of charge, and the vehicle is sleeping. And it takes days to rebalance - it's not a one shot deal.

So the best option is really to set the charging percentage to 90% and just leave it alone for several weeks.

There is certainly a need for getting a tool similar to the Leaf Spy providing battery information at the cell level:

New life for old Nissan Leaf electric car: battery replacement and what it took​

 

[raptor5244]

Any projections as to how much a M3 battery will cost in about 7 years? If a new battery costs $10k today, maybe 3-5K in 7 years?

 

[dmurphy]

There is certainly a need for getting a tool similar to the Leaf Spy providing battery information at the cell level

I'll be honest.... I'm kinda glad there isn't. That's *way* too complicated. To be genuinely successful, the EV needs to be plug-and-forget-it simple.

Just let the car's controller do its thing and stop thinking about it. It's really *that* easy.

 

[ElectricIAC]

The ironic thing is Tesla gives us the ability to Supercharge, which is a great and makes owning an electric vehicle realistic for a lot of folks but then it sounds like no one wants a used EV that has been Supercharged too much. Has there been any studies that indicate Supercharging has any meaningful impact on battery life?

Moving forward with many more EVs hitting the market shouldn't we expect to see a lot more public fast chargers? Won't fast charging be the norm? I would charge faster at home if I could but we are limited to the 32amp or 48amp onboard charger on the Model 3s.

My only hesitation with an EV that’s seen too much DC fast charging is with confirmed throttling cases like Legacy S/X. Free supercharging is only worth anything if its still fast (Unless of course, you’re in a state that charges by KW at significantly more than the prevailing rate)

 

[Watts_Up]

I'll be honest.... I'm kinda glad there isn't. That's *way* too complicated.
To be genuinely successful, the EV needs to be plug-and-forget-it simple.

Just let the car's controller do its thing and stop thinking about it. It's really *that* easy.

It's a diagnostic tool allowing to determine if there is any bad cell that need to be replaced
instead of having to replace the whole pack as a typical dealer would do otherwise.

I understand this might not an everyday app that you would like to use but if you plan
to buy a used Tesla for example, this would be very useful.

I read that Tesla Service Center already use this type of tool.
May be the team from Scan My Tesla are already working on it?

How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range - My Nissan Leaf Forum

Bad Cell in Leaf Spy: What to do about it? - My Nissan Leaf Forum
​

 

[dmurphy]

It's a diagnostic tool allowing to determine if there is any bad cell that need to be replaced
instead of having to replace the whole pack as a typical dealer would do otherwise.

I understand this might not an everyday app that you would like to use but if you plan
to buy a used Tesla for example, this would be very useful.

I read that Tesla Service Center already use this type of tool.

... and that’s who should have those kind of diagnostics.

We do not need people trying to change out cells in their garage if we want EVs widely adopted. The first time someone burns their house down because some app told them a battery cell was low, so they tried putting a AA Duracell in their pack is the day the government tries to “protect” us by outlawing EVs.

I don’t disagree that having access to data is good. But to be practical about it - if we want real EV adoption, we need to not feed the skeptics. There’s enough negativity around Tesla as it is. I can only hear the “you see, it’s a conspiracy, Tesla’s scamming all of you, the batteries are going to explode and eat your brains” ....

In the right hands, you’re right - this kinda of data may occasionally be useful. The problem is, 98% of hands (mine included) are the wrong ones. Seeing the obsession over the range display, could you imagine something like this?

 

[Az_Rael]

It's a diagnostic tool allowing to determine if there is any bad cell that need to be replaced
instead of having to replace the whole pack as a typical dealer would do otherwise.

I understand this might not an everyday app that you would like to use but if you plan
to buy a used Tesla for example, this would be very useful.

I read that Tesla Service Center already use this type of tool.
May be the team from Scan My Tesla are already working on it?

How to Check Battery Capacity, Degradation and Range - My Nissan Leaf Forum

Bad Cell in Leaf Spy: What to do about it? - My Nissan Leaf Forum
​

I have seen those graphs for Teslas. Maybe from TMSpy? So a program does exist

 

[Az_Rael]

In the right hands, you’re right - this kinda of data may occasionally be useful. The problem is, 98% of hands (mine included) are the wrong ones. Seeing the obsession over the range display, could you imagine something like this?

Those tools have been invaluable for the Model S folks with capped batteries. Not sure how familiar you are with that issue, but folks were losing 30 miles of range overnight after a software update and Tesla service would say their batteries were fine. Turning their S85s into S70s range-wise.

The only way anyone figured out what Tesla was actually doing (capping the max voltage) was with these tools.

 

[dmurphy]

Those tools have been invaluable for the Model S folks with capped batteries. Not sure how familiar you are with that issue, but folks were losing 30 miles of range overnight after a software update and Tesla service would say their batteries were fine. Turning their S85s into S70s range-wise.

The only way anyone figured out what Tesla was actually doing (capping the max voltage) was with these tools.

Again, perfectly fine in my book for folks in the diagnostics business (i.e. say Electrified Garage) to have access to those tools and data... but turning it loose on the public without any explanation of what they're looking at just leads to chaos.

I don't disagree - we should have access to the data - but I'd prefer to see it in a way that doesn't feed the trolls. Too many of 'em out there trying to kill Tesla (still!)

 

[QS01]

The ironic thing is Tesla gives us the ability to Supercharge, which is a great and makes owning an electric vehicle realistic for a lot of folks but then it sounds like no one wants a used EV that has been Supercharged too much. Has there been any studies that indicate Supercharging has any meaningful impact on battery life?

Moving forward with many more EVs hitting the market shouldn't we expect to see a lot more public fast chargers? Won't fast charging be the norm? I would charge faster at home if I could but we are limited to the 32amp or 48amp onboard charger on the Model 3s.

I ran across a blog post a while back on one of the first model 3 owners and his experience after already putting 100k miles on the car. He said he has used the super charger network for almost ALL of his charging over those miles and his max range of his performance is down to 302-306 (from the advertised 310). He did state he typically didn’t supercharge past 60% or so —- but after reading his stuff it really makes me think That all the concern on supercharging is suspect.

Tesla does a ton with battery management and seems they should have earned peoples trust by now. Plug in nightly - charge to 90% - and use super charger network whenever you need too.

 

[Blucenturion]

Thanks for the list! I've been browsing around trying to figure out all what I could add. I've never really been a car guy until now. It feels like Teslas are on a whole different level for me. I actually already saw the MAXpider floor mats in a video and they look very worthwhile for the protection factor alone. But yeah, they are pricey.

MAXpider are very handsome; and bulletproof. I had a lady in the back who'd gotten sick once and we still had miles to go. I told her to just launch on the floor if it happened again. She did, and it just washed right out in the garage sink.

 

[Watts_Up]

... and that’s who should have those kind of diagnostics.

We do not need people trying to change out cells in their garage

I just think that if your car is out of warranty, you would be happy to have a way to determine if there are any bad cells to be replaced,
instead of your dealer asking you to replace the full pack for $$$.

May be there could be some web site able to connect to your car and making a remote diagnostic of your battery.

Note: Tesla when testing the Model S Tri-Motors at the Nürburgring, must had some elaborated tools
for analyzing the battery status under stress conditions.