Because he's averaging over years its assumed that the summer and winter is averaged together. The question I have though is if other things remained constant like he didn't move to a new location in that time? or start to drive faster in his later years. any other variables that may reduce the mpg later in the cars life. Other than wear on the car.
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Quite disappointment with my new Model 3's range. Should I be?
- Thread starter charlieM3
- Start date
Because he's averaging over years its assumed that the summer and winter is averaged together. The question I have though is if other things remained constant like he didn't move to a new location in that time? or start to drive faster in his later years. any other variables that may reduce the mpg later in the cars life. Other than wear on the car.
thefortunes
Active Member
I was responding to the last sentence in his post, which is not true in cold climates (unless you want to argue 18%, 21% and 28% are not similar decreases).
No disagreement. I wrote, "What is true is that ICE mpg remains more consistent through the seasons (although it DOES vary)."
I stated ICE mpg does vary through the seasons.
To clarify, what I meant was that our ICE cars display(ed) more consistent mpg through the seasons than what is being reported in these threads regarding EV Teslas.
If folks have kept ICE mpg records in cold winter climates, and if those show mpg degradation similar to EV cars, then I defer to those numbers.
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@jfinephilly, want to explain what you disagree with in my post?
You disagree with my personal observation of our ICE mileage?
You disagree with me deferring to mpg numbers kept by owners in cold winter climates?
You disagree with my personal observation of our ICE mileage?
You disagree with me deferring to mpg numbers kept by owners in cold winter climates?
I disagree with your anecdotal position as stated above. No need to monitor every like and disagree...
OK. That's helpful.
The sentences that follow relate to the first.
Anyway...G'bye!
My high school physics teacher --->
Yeah, yeah! My bad. It's like I just used loose instead of lose, or your instead of you're. Dang it.
I have read many of these “range disappointment” threads. As a 6-month LR AWD owner I think I’m new enough to relate, and experienced enough to have come to terms with it.
My POV:
- As a daily local driver, and provided that daily charging to ~ 80% is easy for you (e.g., at home and/or work), the car is amazing, and you never worry about range. And this is another key differentiator from ICE, and one I didn’t appreciate before I bought.
- For any extended trip (for me, > 150 mi), you quickly realize that the advertised / “rated” range is not very realistic under most situations - e.g., if the weather isn’t perfect, if you’re not starting with 100% battery as you almost always won’t, if you’re not comfortable going much below 10%, if you’re keeping up with the pace of traffic). I sense a lot of defensiveness (or offensiveness) here and on other discussion sites about this, but IMO it is understandable that a “reasonable person” new purchaser (and not the increasingly atypical Tesla enthusiast) expects to get something close to the rated range in “typical” driving. Most of these people will be disappointed, and I think it is fair to ask whether the range should be advertised in a more understandable manner.
You may disagree, and of course YMMV.
My POV:
- As a daily local driver, and provided that daily charging to ~ 80% is easy for you (e.g., at home and/or work), the car is amazing, and you never worry about range. And this is another key differentiator from ICE, and one I didn’t appreciate before I bought.
- For any extended trip (for me, > 150 mi), you quickly realize that the advertised / “rated” range is not very realistic under most situations - e.g., if the weather isn’t perfect, if you’re not starting with 100% battery as you almost always won’t, if you’re not comfortable going much below 10%, if you’re keeping up with the pace of traffic). I sense a lot of defensiveness (or offensiveness) here and on other discussion sites about this, but IMO it is understandable that a “reasonable person” new purchaser (and not the increasingly atypical Tesla enthusiast) expects to get something close to the rated range in “typical” driving. Most of these people will be disappointed, and I think it is fair to ask whether the range should be advertised in a more understandable manner.
You may disagree, and of course YMMV.
No, I did not expect 240, but I also expected more the 170. She was scared that late at night, I was scared for her safety, and that pretty much ended her desire to drive the 3. Again, range anxiety is alive and well in Teslaland.
Hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it? This is my first EV and not having ventured on this website before I bought the SR+, and given the fact that when I did order mine, the Tesla order page showed a 240 mile range, not 240 EPA miles, or 240 estimated miles or 240 kw/miles, it said 240 miles, so I (incorrectly) assumed that 240 would be sufficient. Let me tell you, I drive 62 miles round trip to/from work. I barely get 2 days of travel from a 90% charge and no f'ing way I'd get 3 with a full charge, but you'd think, huh, 240 miles, 62 per day, that's 186 miles for 3 days, I should get 3 days per charge, and that's what I actually thought... NFW! What a mislead dope I was. If I had known then what I know now, I would have went for the 325 LR model, and there was a 325 at that time, and who knows, I may have gotten 3 days with the LR. If/when they get the 3 well over the 300 miles, I might trade mine in. Likely won't change the wife's mind, but at least I may get the 3 days I was after.
Hi OP. You're fine, as long as you're in a colder (less than room temperature basically) area right now.
Around freezing temps, both our previous gas vehicles did 20% worse for efficiency in Winter. The Model 3 is about 35% worse because the heat isn't free like in a gas car.
Below that and in deeper snow, gas was still about 30% at worst but I've got as bad 50% in the Model 3. Double energy usage. Poor conditions are a death sentence for EV range, just keep that in mind.
In addition, standby usage or preheating really adds up in the cold. I've learned that on days where I'm using the car for most of the day (not necessarily long range, hops here and there) it can be as bad as a third of the rated range. This is because of all the heating and then heat loss. Just something to be aware of.
In summer we get better (130 Wh/km) than rated (about 150 Wh/km) which is nice.
I'd like this sentiment to end in the community. Let me make a comparison to communicate why I think this is isn't a helpful argument.
Efficiency matters not just because of range. Due to all the extra electricity usage in Winter, we're getting dangerously close to a third rate tier (over $1/kWh... yeah) in which case I need to take a step back. I didn't even know that tier existed before. We're on hydroelectric so I'm less concerned about my electricity impacts, but financial impacts are looking real. And if we were somewhere else with dirtier power, honestly the inefficiency we've experienced wouldn't look enviable compared to an efficient gas hatchback anymore (what we were driving before).
Of course, I'm coming at this from wanting to drive a more "green" vehicle because our situations require a lot of driving. Those who just want a fancy techy fast car may not care about this.
This is nearly exactly what we do, except we're only going to 90% on weekends we expect to do more driving. Minimal range degradation after 25,000km, but it's still very early!
Around freezing temps, both our previous gas vehicles did 20% worse for efficiency in Winter. The Model 3 is about 35% worse because the heat isn't free like in a gas car.
Below that and in deeper snow, gas was still about 30% at worst but I've got as bad 50% in the Model 3. Double energy usage. Poor conditions are a death sentence for EV range, just keep that in mind.
In addition, standby usage or preheating really adds up in the cold. I've learned that on days where I'm using the car for most of the day (not necessarily long range, hops here and there) it can be as bad as a third of the rated range. This is because of all the heating and then heat loss. Just something to be aware of.
In summer we get better (130 Wh/km) than rated (about 150 Wh/km) which is nice.
I'd like this sentiment to end in the community. Let me make a comparison to communicate why I think this is isn't a helpful argument.
"Efficiency doesn't matter because there are gas stations everywhere. I'll get the biggest jacked up V8 coal rollin' truck with 3000lbs of sand in the back because why not if I can make it anywhere with gas stations".
Efficiency matters not just because of range. Due to all the extra electricity usage in Winter, we're getting dangerously close to a third rate tier (over $1/kWh... yeah) in which case I need to take a step back. I didn't even know that tier existed before. We're on hydroelectric so I'm less concerned about my electricity impacts, but financial impacts are looking real. And if we were somewhere else with dirtier power, honestly the inefficiency we've experienced wouldn't look enviable compared to an efficient gas hatchback anymore (what we were driving before).
Of course, I'm coming at this from wanting to drive a more "green" vehicle because our situations require a lot of driving. Those who just want a fancy techy fast car may not care about this.
I've been hedging my bets when it comes to battery best practices, check back with me in 10 years and we'll compare notes to see if what I'm doing makes any difference whatsoever (probably not!)
This (no kidding) is what I'm doing
FWIW, with the mild weather in SoCal, and a horrible amount of slow traffic, I easily manage to get my rated miles nearly every day. 120 mile round trip commute and I use about 40% of my LR AWD battery. This includes sentry on during work hours.
- Using the "middle" of my battery for M-F commuting. I use about 40% each day, so I charge to about 70% and arrive home with 30%.
- Charge to 90% on friday night to allow pack equalizing and BMS calibrations to occur over the weekend. I drive my truck on the weekend, so the car "rests" for a couple days.
Edit: Forgot to mention: Aero covers on, pressure set at 42.
This is nearly exactly what we do, except we're only going to 90% on weekends we expect to do more driving. Minimal range degradation after 25,000km, but it's still very early!
Yes, that would be fair. But for better or for worse, every manufacturer uses the same standard test using a mixed cycle that tends to overestimate range, for a EVs in particular if you're driving on freeways.
It's hard to come up with a test that spits out a single figure for both ICE and BEV cars that would always make sense.
When picking cars I usually looked at pages like
Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor
which list a number of different scenarios and give you a feel for what difference they can make...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
A couple of points here:
1) It is odd that the EPA does not require the 5-cycle test for EVs. It seems like it would be more accurate and my understanding is that all ICE vehicles use the 5-cycle test now... The 5-cycle test does cold weather testing, does brisk acceleration, and hits 80mph...
2) The scaling factor for EVs is supposed to be 0.7 to convert from 2-cycle to 5-cycle results. Most EVs use 0.7. For some reason, though, Tesla uses 0.7032 in many cases but sometimes as large as 0.75 (Model S for example). I have no idea why there is so much latitude on this scaling...
Xenoilphobe
Well-Known Member
1. Check tire pressure
2. Pre-heat your car
3. Get the smallest lightest wheels possible
4. Let the battery run down to 10% about once a month and charge to 90% so the BMS can recalculate range
5. A better measure is to watch your watts per mile in cold weather it will a lot higher and mild weather you should be <300 watts per mile.
6. Did you forget to release the e-brake? (Just joking).
7. Turn down the heater and turn up the seater warmers.
8. Your commute is similar to mine and I have stopped looking at range. It doesn’t matter it’s free to charge at work and free to charge at home (solar).
2. Pre-heat your car
3. Get the smallest lightest wheels possible
4. Let the battery run down to 10% about once a month and charge to 90% so the BMS can recalculate range
5. A better measure is to watch your watts per mile in cold weather it will a lot higher and mild weather you should be <300 watts per mile.
6. Did you forget to release the e-brake? (Just joking).
7. Turn down the heater and turn up the seater warmers.
8. Your commute is similar to mine and I have stopped looking at range. It doesn’t matter it’s free to charge at work and free to charge at home (solar).
To maximize range:
Do not use TACC/AP
Do not use high regen.
Keep speed to posted limit
Pretend there is an egg between your foot and the pedals.
BTW - This hasn't changed in 50 years.
Do not use cruise control
Brake early
Don't speed
Pretend there is a dinosaur egg between your bare foot and the dirt.
Do not use TACC/AP
Do not use high regen.
Keep speed to posted limit
Pretend there is an egg between your foot and the pedals.
BTW - This hasn't changed in 50 years.
Do not use cruise control
Brake early
Don't speed
Pretend there is a dinosaur egg between your bare foot and the dirt.
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