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Random arguing about the GT-R
- Thread starter Shizzrock
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except they will. Pretty often.
2009 Nissan GT-R Long-Term Road Test - Comfort
So yes... yes you will be in top gear at 30.
For example let's say you're pulling away from a light about to turn into an on-ramp... you accelerate lightly from light to ramp, get up to 30...where you'll be in 6th (top) gear... then punch it on the straight of the ramp to get up to merge speed.
It will take you 3.8 seconds to get from 30 to 50.
Versus a model 3 AWD which will do the same in 1.5 seconds.
I'm looking forward to the P3 30-50, but you don't have to cherry pick your data to make it look better. No one would be in top gear at 30mph unless you had it in comfort mode and even still I don't know. In addition, if you had the dual clutch in manual mode you would be in second gear already. Using top gear 30-50 results doesn't give a true indication of how fast a GTR is, but that doesn't mean the P3 isn't exceptionally fast either. I understand your point though, that in most situations you have to wait to downshift and that time can be an eternity for short bursts of speed.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
This isn't cherry picking.
30-50, 30-70, and 50-70 are common measurements published in major car magazines routinely for decades.
Except yes, they would.
I just quoted you a review of the actual car in question, where not only does it happen- it happens so commonly in normal real-life use that the reviewer made a point of mentioning how easily and often it happens.
It's pretty common for high powered ICE cars with any sort of automatic shifting to seek highest gear quickly for EPA/CAFE purposes.
Sure. But most people in "normal" use with a car that automatically shifts are driving around in drive, not in manual mode.
And even IN manual mode if you want max acceleration from say 30-70 in a GT-R you'd still need to shift from 2nd to 3rd which eats time (2nd redlines in the low 60s)
Exactly. Even the RWD 3 is going to be competitive with vastly quicker/more expensive cars in real-world passing situations- and the AWD and P will routinely beat them in such situations.
For the driving I typically do (where I see maybe 3 stoplights total on a 30-40 minute drive to or from work) such measures are of much greater value than a 0-60 time.
If you're in comfort mode. Because of compliance. If you have a GTR in comfort mode you're doing it wrong. This scenario simply doesn't happen unless you want it to. How do I know? I have a dual clutch transmission. When does it go into top gear? When I'm in comfort mode. On the highway. Going 60. When you shift from top gear in a dual clutch it takes longer as opposed to when you're in third going to second. So those numbers for 30-50 aren't real world numbers. And they don't have to be, unless you're saying they are, which they're not.
I also had a CTS-V six speed manual. It also had one of those EPS/CAFE compliance features where if you were driving like a granny, it would force you to shift from 1st to 4th. You know how to avoid it? Drive it fast.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Comfort mode is a suspension, not engine, setting on the GT-R... so again... what the heck are you talking about?
Are you trying to invent some kind of imaginary 'chill' mode for the GT-R?
The GT-R does have a 'safe' mode intended for snow/ice- but you don't use it otherwise, and it's not the mode in which the car is in 6th gear by 30 mph.
That's simply normal mode- which is the default transmission setting when you turn on the car.
Where you absolutely will be in top gear at 30 under light acceleration.
I'm honestly baffled you're continuing to argue in the fact of real-world accounts, even moreso when you seem unaware of what modes the car even has.
Again from the review of the car I provided-
Edmunds GT-R review said:
So no, you're not going to be in 2nd gear at 30 unless either:
You are in manual mode holding it there- which most aren't doing in regular driving.
or
You are in the middle of a launch from 0 or some other kind of full throttle blast from low speed
What the actual topic of the thread is is normal passing speeds in normal use.
Where, again, real world reviews show us the car will already be in 6th gear at 30 mph under light throttle- if you THEN floor it to pass the GT-R will take... 3.8 seconds to get here. Since it'll need to downshift.
That's the real world number.
Again, there's no such thing as "comfort mode" for the GT-R transmission. It's a suspension setting that doesn't change shift behavior at all.
that's why there's a picture of a shock above the switch.
Sorry I got the nomenclature wrong. There's normal mode and R mode. In R mode, it changes shift behavior.
Now you'll say but that's for the track, in the specific use case of light acceleration but then wanting to floor it only from 30-50 it's slow. Then you'll say that's how most people use it. But it's whatever
Edit: Upon further thinking I was crazy, a quick google search proved you are the one who will say anything just to be right
View media item 118887
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
... what?
Your picture in no way contradicts what I said- nor supports what you claim.
On the contrary, it shows exactly what I told you
There's a picture of a shock absorber above COMF.
because that's a suspension setting and not a transmission setting
The actual text also mentions you'll be in 6th before 30 in "save" (the snow mode).
The Edmonds review I provided mentions you are in 6th at 30 even in normal mode.
As in the mode the car is normally driven in.
I'd suggest you quit while you're behind, but...too late
... what?
Your picture in no way contradicts what I said- nor supports what you claim.
On the contrary, it shows exactly what I told you
There's a picture of a shock absorber above COMF.
because that's a suspension setting and not a transmission setting
The actual text also mentions you'll be in 6th before 30 in "save" (the snow mode).
The Edmonds review I provided mentions you are in 6th at 30 even in normal mode.
As in the mode the car is normally driven in.
I'd suggest you quit while you're behind, but...too late
This is what you do, focus on some pedantic reasoning, but to the LEFT of the suspension switch there is a TRANSMISSION switch, which lets you put the car in R mode, which would never upshift to sixth at 30 mph.
That's how people NORMALLY drive GTRs, not some weird scenario where you want the shifting points in normal mode but want to go really fast in your one example.
You are using sophistry to prove a point that didn't need to be proved.
This is a fact. The Nissan GTR is faster than 3.8s from 30-50. Any other qualifier is just something you use to prove you're right.
You got Pwned
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
no, I focus on you being factually wrong but desperately flailing about not to be.
Really? Can you cite the actual ECU shift tables for R mode or are you just making stuff up again?
Nope.
The GT-Rs aggressively EPA-minded shifts has been a well known issue... to the point when custom tuners ask "what would you like to see us be able to change" such as here-
EcuTek - Let's talk shift points - Engine
The very first reply is:
"Don't want to be in 6th gear at 30mph lugging around. "
Another post
" My car gets to 6th at 34mph"
That's real world GT-R owners (unlike yourself) talking about real life driving a real life GT-R.
Here's a thread where a guy offers some additional (to COBBs default stuff) tuning that addresses that issue-
FINALLY, full custom trans programming available for Cobb users from Buschur Racing! - R35 GT-R
Among the benefits cited-
But I'm sure all of these actual GT-R owners are just imaging the problem and you know better because you owned a totally different car once, right?
You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means
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no, I focus on you being factually wrong but desperately flailing about not to be.
Really? Can you cite the actual ECU shift tables for R mode or are you just making stuff up again?
Nope.
The GT-Rs aggressively EPA-minded shifts has been a well known issue... to the point when custom tuners ask "what would you like to see us be able to change" such as here-
EcuTek - Let's talk shift points - Engine
The very first reply is:
"Don't want to be in 6th gear at 30mph lugging around. "
Another post
" My car gets to 6th at 34mph"
That's real world GT-R owners (unlike yourself) talking about real life driving a real life GT-R.
You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means
Where are the goal posts now? What kind of qualifiers and evidence do I need?
You are still Pwned and now you are getting desperate. This metric can be evidenced by how quickly you find esoteric web references to prove your point.
Here's the video from Nissan:
Here's some other random thread where they talk about R mode:
Questions about driving in R Mode - R35 GT-R
I don't have a GTR, but I have a dual-clutch transmission vehicle that has similar characteristics. But who cares? You're still WRONG.
You are wrong if you say the Nissan GTR takes 3.8s to go 30-50. You are dead wrong. If you have to add all these qualifiers then you're just equivocating.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...what?
I cited Car and Driver test data.
You said it was wrong.
And have offered 0 evidence of it.
I then provided an Edmunds review confirming what I told you.
You said it was wrong and offered 0 evidence of it.
I then provided multiple threads on GT-R forums confirming what i told you.
You said it was wrong and offered 0 evidence of it.
Maybe "goal posts" is another term you're using without understanding what it means?
desperate for you to stop embarrassing yourself perhaps....I mean, someone should be.
Yes... car and driver....Edmunds... actual GT-R owners forums... real "esoteric"
Except literally nothing in what I just quoted you saying is true- or supported by any actual testing or facts.
So there's that.
But keep digging a hole man...Chinas gotta be close!
2015 Nissan GT-R Test | Review | Car and Driver
Car and Driver said:
nah man, I said those tests were from top gear, and you continued down your meandering path of rationalization and you are good with all your references and all that. But they're always strawman arguments and the goalposts always move.
But you are still wrong. A GTR doesn't take 3.8s to go 30-50, unless you're in top gear and also in normal mode. Therefore it doesn't take 3.8s to go 30-50. Because without "unless you're in top gear and also in normal mode", you're wrong.
But you are still wrong. A GTR doesn't take 3.8s to go 30-50, unless you're in top gear and also in normal mode. Therefore it doesn't take 3.8s to go 30-50. Because without "unless you're in top gear and also in normal mode", you're wrong.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, you didn't.
I said that in my original post with the test results.
you can tell because it literally says that in the post
So you didn't so much 'say' that as read it in the original post I made.
No, I cited sourced facts, and then cited even more of them to show you that's how the car actually works in real life.
And you are....not....
you again seem to be using terms you don't understand the meaning of.
Which is the default behavior of the car
As repeatedly confirmed by not just an Edmunds review of the car, but by numerous actual GT-R owners, over multiple years, on multiple GT-R forums.
That's so much the normal default behavior that custom aftermarket tuning was developed to try and change that normal behavior of the car
Except by default, it does.
See above where I point that out repeatedly, sourcing the claim repeatedly, so much so people actually pay extra money to 3rd parties to make that not the default behavior of the car.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I know the current political climate might make you think otherwise, but you repeating a lie doesn't make it true man.
Dude you're still wrong. You need a qualifier every time, now the qualifier is that it's the "default" of the car. And on top of that you have to be "lightly accelerating" to 30 mph at which point you will see how fast it will possibly go. So in "normal" mode, if you are "lightly accelerating", and then it "shifts to top gear" while you are lightly accelerating, at which point you decide to floor it, which you also say is the most typical use case, then it takes 3.8s to go 30-50. You are using the worst case for performance, top gear in normal mode, to say that's how fast it goes. But that's not how fast it goes. All I have to do to make that fact invalid is to floor it before 30 mph. Your problem is you have too many facts that obscure the debate.
Isn't it great to cherry pick facts? Here's an article from Motor Trend. You've heard of Motor Trend right? Well, they use "passing speed" for their test and it's 45-65 mph. Guess what time the GTR got? 1.5 seconds! Oh, but that's not this and that's not what I consider to be this, so blah blah.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/gt-r/2010/bentley-continental-supersports-nissan-gt-r/
Also, a bunch of those "facts" are from articles from 2009. Anything it takes right?
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/nissan/gt-r/2010/bentley-continental-supersports-nissan-gt-r/
Also, a bunch of those "facts" are from articles from 2009. Anything it takes right?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Uh..."default behavior" is the opposite of qualifier.
It's what the car normally does without qualifiers
An actual qualifier would be what you keep trying to add
Things like "well if you put it in manual mode and hold it in 2nd...then it's different!"
So you again seem to be not understanding the very terms you're accusing people of, while doing the very things you seem to be REALLY MAD about people doing.
Right. Which is how passing in real life works. It's the entire point of the test
You're cruising at a speed- which means LIGHT THROTTLE. And then decide you want to PASS someone so you go to heavy throttle.
That's the first correct thing you've said all thread
No, I'm using the actual normal behavior of the car to say how fast it normally goes.
I even cited numerous people who, unlike you, actually own and drive the car who all confirmed this is how it actually works.... so much so there's multiple after market people offering paid ways to change that normal behavior of the car.
You mean...add a qualifier? I thought you hate those?
it'd also not be a 30-50 test at that point. If you floor it from a start for example it'd be a 0-50 test. We already have that data of course.
Yours appears to be you refuse to let any facts obscure your claims even when they contradict them.
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