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Range differences with Pilot Sport All Season 4 or CrossClimate2 vs Primacy MXM4
- Thread starter MJB-CO
- Start date
Last week I had to change tires during a road trip. For the second time I felt an unbalanced tire and knew the foam was coming loose on the MXM4s.
So I had a set of the CrossClimate2 installed (I’m done with foam inserts).
On the 570 mile trip out On the MXM4s I averaged 81% efficiency. On the way home on the CC2s I averaged 71% efficiency. Different days, so slightly different weather, the CC2s were about 2-3psi less and the way back was against the prevailing winds. So with no break in on the new tires this seems like worse case efficiency drop and will likely come back closer with miles.
On the foam: last summer I had the unbalanced tire feeling and took the car to a service center and the told me they removed a section of the foam. At this tire swap we found that one tire had zero foam and 2 tires had the foam completely loose. So I only had one “good” tire.
So I had a set of the CrossClimate2 installed (I’m done with foam inserts).
On the 570 mile trip out On the MXM4s I averaged 81% efficiency. On the way home on the CC2s I averaged 71% efficiency. Different days, so slightly different weather, the CC2s were about 2-3psi less and the way back was against the prevailing winds. So with no break in on the new tires this seems like worse case efficiency drop and will likely come back closer with miles.
On the foam: last summer I had the unbalanced tire feeling and took the car to a service center and the told me they removed a section of the foam. At this tire swap we found that one tire had zero foam and 2 tires had the foam completely loose. So I only had one “good” tire.
I’ve only been doing short drives lately so it is hard to tease out any efficiency loss. With the increased grip, cool looking tread and no real noticeable noise increase I’m very happy with the CC2s. Will be a couple weeks until I take a much longer trip to hopefully see any range drops now that the tires have over 1k miles on them.
That's pretty weird. We've had at least 12 Michelin tires with acoustic foam all Pilot Sport 4S so a different line, but no issues. We did have to rip the foam out once after we were forced to use an inflator can. But other than that which was our fault and not a manufacturing defect, the acoustic foam has worked well and the one tire without it is slightly louder.
I have a trip odometer that I reset at the beginning of each season. Typically I get about 245 Wh/mi in the summer and 255 Wh/mi in the winter with Spring and Fall coming in between.
I got these tires right at the beginning of Spring and since this, I have driven 2,062 miles and am at 273 Wh/mi since putting on the CC2s, so about an 8.4% decrease in efficiency.
I am hoping that this is just peaked since it is the first 2,000 miles and that Summer won't be as bad.
TBH, I wish I had purchased the PS AS/4s.
scubastevo80
Member
New owner of AS4s here, my impressions are as follows... range is definitely worse than my 37k mile old stock tires. Hard to pinpoint the actual decrease, but my daily drives on the highway and around town to kids schools show a clear difference (I can't really get under 245wh/mi anymore). Road noise is about the same, maybe worse in certain conditions where you can actually hear the tires and not general wind noise. Handling - much better.
rxlawdude
Active Member
This is remarkably similar to the experience with our RWD LR that had the OEM MXM4s replaced with Pilot Sport AS/3s at 25,000 miles: consumption went from 250Wh/mi to 285Wh/mi. Temperature variations in SoCal and inclement weather aren't major factors. Now, with about 35,000 on the PS3s, consumption is now back in the high 250s, with cumulative average for the PS3s around 270Wh/mi.
While the MXMs suck in snow and ice (don't ask me how I know, but Sedona's not set up for 4" accumulations) at 70% tread wear, the Pilots seem more sure footed, but I've not had them in the exact conditions to assess their snow performance.
I have not heard anyone report better efficiency than that of the OEM MXM4s, so next replacement will be back to those. I think they are much quieter (even sans foam!) than the Pilots. I'll trade some handling for 20Wh/mi less consumption.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Apart from the better handling- In a panic stop from highway speeds the Pilots will stop the vehicle a couple of car lengths shorter than the MXM4s will... I'll take a 5-10% efficiency hit for that.
rxlawdude
Active Member
And in the scheme of things of course it's balance that most people want although different folks are often willing to trade different virtues off against another. And as we see over and over in these discussions about tires, there's a group on The Forum here that's willing to sacrifice everything for low-rolling-resistance. You and I don't share that view but after all, you pay your money and then you get to make your choice.
I've owned multiple sets of the Pilot Sport 4S Tire most of them in the Tesla spec (235 and 275) and I'm continually amazed at how good the tire is at so many different things. Its wet handling is great, so is its dry handling, so is its braking especially in the wet. Its efficiency is passable and its ride and noise are good, especially relative to some other Max performance summer Tires. And for an ultra high-performance street Tire it lasts a really long time. We're going to get probably 30 thousand miles out of the PS4s is on my wife's car, and she does not Drive slowly or spare the accelerator. Just about every chance she gets she's dipping deeply into the fun pedal. About the only downside is it ain't cheap. But you really do get what you paid for.
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scubastevo80
Member
I'm in the opposite boat - will trade a bit of efficiency for the increased handling. I was debating on getting two sets of wheels, one for summer and one for winter, but neither would have the efficiency of the OEM MXM4s. While the efficiency is great, I thought their all-season capabilities in cornering, wet and snow were less than confidence inspiring. Maybe the new Michelin EV tires will be closer to the MXM4s in terms of efficiency.
Update: Real data on efficiency of Pilot Sport All Season 4 vs MXM4
New Model 3 dual motor: Aug 2019
PSAS4 new: Dec 2020 with 19.6K miles, 266 wh/mi since new
Started trip meter: March 2021 with 1.6K on the new tires (i.e. new stickiness removed)
Today May 13, 2021: 2.3K on trip meter (3.9K total on tires), 276 wh/mi
Many variables are unaccounted for, of course, like how much winter and how many longer trips on each tire. However, I was the only driver in all of this and I have been doing much the same kind of driving. The wh/mi on the trip meter is still falling whenever I drive any distance, and it looks like it could easily fall to near 270.
I bought these tires with the hope that the degradation would be less than 10%. I am now confident that it is less than 5%. It could well be less than 3% (above is 3.6%), likely well within the uncertainties mentioned above.
New Model 3 dual motor: Aug 2019
PSAS4 new: Dec 2020 with 19.6K miles, 266 wh/mi since new
Started trip meter: March 2021 with 1.6K on the new tires (i.e. new stickiness removed)
Today May 13, 2021: 2.3K on trip meter (3.9K total on tires), 276 wh/mi
Many variables are unaccounted for, of course, like how much winter and how many longer trips on each tire. However, I was the only driver in all of this and I have been doing much the same kind of driving. The wh/mi on the trip meter is still falling whenever I drive any distance, and it looks like it could easily fall to near 270.
I bought these tires with the hope that the degradation would be less than 10%. I am now confident that it is less than 5%. It could well be less than 3% (above is 3.6%), likely well within the uncertainties mentioned above.
Doubtful that the difference will be meaningful. Unclear what Tesla and Michelin did to the Tesla spec version of the Pilot Sport 4S but the best speculation is they broadened the tread (it's about a quarter inch wider in tread than any comparable 235 ) and may be made outer section a bit softer compound for enhanced cornering while making the center section harder to reduce crown wear at high inflation pressures and also to reduce rolling resistance a little bit. In any case the differences are subtle, what you will notice for sure is the better ride from more sidewall. And probably not quite as good transient response on turn in.
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