Range on road trip much lower than expected (<200 miles on full charge)

[jcanoe]

What’s the wh/mile difference between the 19” Gemini wheel+tire package vs the 20s?

The difference varies according to the speed. The weight difference between the 19" Gemini wheel and tire and the 20" Induction wheel and tire is small, so the wh/mi advantage of the Gemini wheel must include the Gemini wheel covers. Many Performance Model Y owners with the 21" Induction wheels report 10% higher consumption with the heavier Uberturbine wheels.

Range loss with the different wheel options

 

[Dave EV]

Says the guy based in San Diego where the temperature is always +/- in the Tesla performance sweet spot
Did you read the part about it being winter?
The performance of EVs, including Tesla below ~55F starts to change pretty dramatically for every 10F drop, and add some moisture to the road, headwinds, or speed above 60mph for even worse performance.

Absolutely - I took a winter road trip (2000+ miles) where temps between freezing and 55F typically and consumption went through the roof, though I was travelling around 75-85 mph most of the time, so pretty fast. But I had also just put on some CrossClimate 2 tires (for the cold weather handling), and I found it hard to isolate the difference between low ambient temperatures and the tires.

That said, I had two legs at 400 Wh/mi - used 90% SOC and only went 160 miles and another leg where I used 85% and only went 150 miles. Ouch! Average speed for both was 70 mph. The first had an elevation gain of 2300 ft and an average temp of 40F, most of the time Autopilot at 75 mph, dry roads. The second had no net elevation gain, an average temp of 45F, Autopilot set to 75-80 mph and had some rain, too.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to do 200 miles in those conditions - so a 100 kWh+ sized battery pack for road trips would be nice - or around 400 mile EPA range.

What’s the wh/mile difference between the 19” Gemini wheel+tire package vs the 20s?

On the model 3 there is a significant range reduction (15-20% at highway speed?) stepping up wheel size because you also get stickier tires.

Lastly 3-6 additional psi on the tires (stay within spec..) can make a noticeable difference in range, though at the expense of a harsher ride.

That's a good question, not sure if that's been posted - tires and wheels can easily cause a 20% increase in consumption depending on the setup, though Tesla's OEM setups are not that bad until you jump to the performance wheel/tires setup.

Edit: @jcanoe above beat me to it, here's the summary for the Model Y:

• Range with 21's will be 7% less than with the 20's
• Range with 20's will be 7% less than with the 19's
• Range with 21's will be 14% less than with the 19's

 

[threeputts]

On a road trip 2 weeks ago one segment driving West from Mitchell SD to Oacoma SD in 17F at 82mph with a 30mph headwind we averaged 515 wh/mi. Speed + Cold kills range.

 

[eleven24]

My car is a 2121 Model Y, with 20" Induction tires, just upgraded to the Holiday release. Taking a road trip from Seattle to Eugene OR. Taking the trip on I-5, I've noticed that depending on my speed, I'm getting as little as half of the nominal range. Once I got to measuring, I noted the following data on the leg between the Vancouver, WA supercharger and the Springfield, OR SC:

Outside temperature: 37-40 F. Light rain during roughly half the trip.
Autopilot driving speed: 65 mph (all highway - southbound on I-5 - except for less than a mile of entry and exit road). Clear roads, maintained speed through most of the trip with only a few dips down to 50-55 mph.
Driving distance: 118 miles
Travel time: 1 hour, 55 min nonstop
Range at start: 260 miles (80%)
Range at end: 65 miles (20% - yes, the battery went from almost exactly 80% to 20%. Go figure)
Wh per mile: 359 (!)

So, the trip used 195 miles of range over a 118 mile actual distance, which gives me 60.5% efficiency. This would bring the car's total range to 196 miles.

Is this low efficiency expected under these conditions?

Since taking delivery of my Y (LR, 5 seat, 20" wheels) in early September I've taken the same 425 mile trip 4 times. 50 miles of that trip is 30-40mph roads, the rest is 70mph highway. Net elevation change through that trip is close to zero, though it is not a flat drive.

Via teslafi stats, Avg temperature is the biggest difference for me:

72 deg. 255 wh/mi. 82% efficiency
41 deg. 289 wh/mi. 72%
27 deg. 331 wh/mi. 63%

 

[avs007]

Sorry for being off-topic. I think the OP's issue is more likely caused by defective batteries.

Having made the exact drive that the OP has... I think his experience was completely normal, and not related to defective batteries... The biggest thing I think the OP neglected to take into account, is the rain, and elevation changes. Even driving my ICE car, I noticed fuel economy takes a nose dive during those elevation changes. I can average > 30mpg in my ICE until I hit the elevation changes along I-5. I've made the trip with my laptop connected to the OBD2 recording data... When you hit those inclines, my instance fuel economy tanked to < 10 mpg, sometimes as low at 4mpg... During those same stretches engine load goes dramatically up as well, even if my RPMs stayed constant at 1600rpm. Those stretches dragged my average fuel economy in my ICE down from 38 to 24.

When I made the same drive (which I have done many many times), in the Y, the rain dramatically increased consumption. Normally I would roll into the vancouver SC with 20%. But when it was raining, I rolled in with 9%, and I even charged extra at the previous stop.

 

[Boza]

Sorry, could not hold it

 

[letterk]

My wife’s Y AWD with big fancy 20” wheels has an average efficiency of 269 Wh/mi over almost 10k miles. Includes a lot of high speed driving, heater, AC, poor use of regenerative braking. Basically she doesn’t care about efficiency and does nothing to make it better. She gets slightly better range than stated.

On the other hand, my brand new 3 gets worse efficiency than the Y, and I do care about efficiency. Huge discrepancy in efficiency. There’s more to it than external factors.

 

[0260n3]

My car is a 2121 Model Y, with 20" Induction tires, just upgraded to the Holiday release. Taking a road trip from Seattle to Eugene OR. Taking the trip on I-5, I've noticed that depending on my speed, I'm getting as little as half of the nominal range. Once I got to measuring, I noted the following data on the leg between the Vancouver, WA supercharger and the Springfield, OR SC:

Outside temperature: 37-40 F. Light rain during roughly half the trip.
Autopilot driving speed: 65 mph (all highway - southbound on I-5 - except for less than a mile of entry and exit road). Clear roads, maintained speed through most of the trip with only a few dips down to 50-55 mph.
Driving distance: 118 miles
Travel time: 1 hour, 55 min nonstop
Range at start: 260 miles (80%)
Range at end: 65 miles (20% - yes, the battery went from almost exactly 80% to 20%. Go figure)
Wh per mile: 359 (!)

So, the trip used 195 miles of range over a 118 mile actual distance, which gives me 60.5% efficiency. This would bring the car's total range to 196 miles.

Is this low efficiency expected under these conditions?

I've been very disappointed with the range. I have a MYP with 21" wheels. The stated range 303 miles. I generally am lucky to get 2/3 of that range. It's only been driven in cold weather. The battery is less efficient when cold and the heater reduces range by as much as 40%.
The best efficancy I've seen is low 80%.
The range is so bad while towing, that it's really not practical for anything other than a local trip. I had four 1 1/2 hour trips (95 miles). Two with trailer loaded, and two with empty trailer. The first 3 trips I got 45%-55% efficiency. I had a stated range of 270 miles. Based on the efficiency of the previous three trips, I expected to have a real range of 135-165 miles., which would be plenty to make it to my destination. My last trip, with an empty trailer I only got 33%. There weren't any superchargers available on my trip and I had to be towed to a charger. I understand there are many factors that effect range, but I would think that Tesla's computer would adjust for cold weather, heater, and towing, etc.
I hope that my range improves during the summer.

 

[0260n3]

I have a 2020 Model Y, worst case, my car does 2 miles for each % of charger, so I consider my cars range as 200 and not 315 as Tesla rates it’s battery at. I think Mode Y is rated at about 270 wh per mile for it to get the estimated range. Yours is higher, and my car too average about 350 wh per mile. I think it’s my driving and the cold weather which is the culprit here.

That's about what I get, 66% of predicted range.

 

[Terpslax]

My wife’s Y AWD with big fancy 20” wheels has an average efficiency of 269 Wh/mi over almost 10k miles. Includes a lot of high speed driving, heater, AC, poor use of regenerative braking. Basically she doesn’t care about efficiency and does nothing to make it better. She gets slightly better range than stated.

On the other hand, my brand new 3 gets worse efficiency than the Y, and I do care about efficiency. Huge discrepancy in efficiency. There’s more to it than external factors.

Southern California Weather/ temps

 

[Terpslax]

That's about what I get, 66% of predicted range.

My winter average was about 200-210 miles per 100% charge. A couple of weeks back is was warm and it was more like 270 for the week. The temp is the #1 factor.

 

[avs007]

There's an interesting video that bjorn has where he does a 800km (500 mile) race between a Porsche 911 and a Model 3 Performance. (They both have nearly identical stated range) Their ground rules was you can only go a maximum of 10 over the limit, and you must stop to eat when you feel hungry and when you need to pee, etc. And no eating in the car. They drove all day, actual drive time was like 9 hours or something like that. The Model 3 actually arrived at the destination 5 minutes before the 911. So it was basically even. So in the real world, I don't think people need to worry about what the actual range is compared to EPA, etc.

 

[letterk]

Southern California Weather/ temps

Tue. But the ability to get better than stated range while driving like she does is also important to keep in mind. If she actually drove it efficiently, I bet she'd get 400 miles out of it.

At the same time, my new 3 is in the same exact weather, driving efficiently, and I can't get close to stated efficiency. The variability can't just be due to weather. There is significant real world variability in the cars themselves.

 

[jcanoe]

Tue. But the ability to get better than stated range while driving like she does is also important to keep in mind. If she actually drove it efficiently, I bet she'd get 400 miles out of it.

At the same time, my new 3 is in the same exact weather, driving efficiently, and I can't get close to stated efficiency. The variability can't just be due to weather. There is significant real world variability in the cars themselves.

If you are getting lower than expected efficiency then have the brakes checked. You could have one wheel where the brake pad is rubbing against the brake rotor. After driving use a digital thermometer or your hand to feel if one brake rotor feels excessively warm. (Place your hand close to the brake rotor but be careful you don't burn yourself.)

 

[letterk]

If you are getting lower than expected efficiency then have the brakes checked. You could have one wheel where the brake pad is rubbing against the brake rotor. After driving use a digital thermometer or your hand to feel if one brake rotor feels excessively warm. (Place your hand close to the brake rotor but be careful you don't burn yourself.)

Yeah, I've been down this road before. First 3 had both rear brakes dragging. After MANY attempts to get them to address it, they finally caved and replaced both rear brake cylinders. This time I don't have any of the symptoms other than bad efficiency numbers.

 

[jcanoe]

Yeah, I've been down this road before. First 3 had both rear brakes dragging. After MANY attempts to get them to address it, they finally caved and replaced both rear brake cylinders. This time I don't have any of the symptoms other than bad efficiency numbers.

What was the lifetime efficiency (Wh/mile) with your first Model 3 and now with the new Model 3?

 

[Terpslax]

Driving habits can absolutely effect it as well but I still think #1 is temperature

 

[vanjwilson]

Sharing my recent road trip experience.

• Model Y Long Range with 19-inch wheels and all season tires.
• Charlotte, NC, to Los Angeles, CA, and back, over 13 days at the end of February and beginning of March, 2022.
• Mainly interstate driving (I-10 westbound, I-40 eastbound) at 5 mph over whatever the posted speed limit was. So, a great majority of the trip was 70–80 mph.
• Temperature ran the gamut. 70s in the South when I left. Driving in the desert, they would start in the 30s in the mornings, and get down into the 30s before I stopped in the evenings. 80s in Arizona during the day. 60s and 70s in Southern California. Light snow from Flagstaff to Albuquerque. Cool days in the Midwest. Lots of wind in the high desert, both in Texas and California.
• Plenty of elevation gain and loss along the way. In addition, I went up to the top of Mt. Lemmon outside of Tuscon, about 6,000 feet up and down.

6,048 total miles driven
312 wh/mi overall average for the whole trip

I think the battery in my car is around 75 kWh, so that works out to an average of 240 miles of range. Probably less on mountainous days cold days, probably more on warm days when I was exploring off the interstate more.

For my part, I hardly ever think about total range. I try to plan to arrive at a supercharger with between 10%–20% state of charge, charge up to as much as I need to get to the next charger (or skip a charger, if they are close together), and then move on. That's usually to around 60%–70% SOC, by which point the charge rate has tapered down to 60 kW. Only if my hotel had a level two charger would I charge up to 90% over. (Full disclosure: I did charge to 100% the night before I drove from Normal, OK, to Fort Smith, AR. It was over 190 miles, and I arrived with over 20% left, which jives with a range of about 240 miles.)

I've heard some trims of the Taycan can get 270 miles of real-world range, and the Lucid Air Dream Edition comes close to 500, but I'd probably stop just as often, to stretch my legs and take bio breaks, just not for quite as many minutes each time to charge.

 

[avs007]

I've heard some trims of the Taycan can get 270 miles of real-world range, and the Lucid Air Dream Edition comes close to 500

Bjorn had a race between a taycan, a mach e, and a Model 3 SR+, to the Arctic circle and back. On paper the taycan should have won easily. But in reality, it kept cold gating at the charger so it charged slow. Also the non Tesla chargers were farther apart, so the taycan needed to charge to > 90% a few times. The net result was that the car with the shortest range (3SR+) won the race. It beat the taycan by over an hour. The other problem with the taycan was it has an 800v charging system with a static voltage doubler to interoperate with 400v chargers. This meant it would never hit a 400v systems peak charging rate. So of all the chargers the taycan used, very few of them was it able to achieve max charging speed. It was funny cus at one point the taycan finally managed a 300kw charging cycle, and the guy was proud of himself, but then he looked at the map and saw bjorn was already an hour ahead of him.

 

[Mjrotor]

I took a recent trip from CT to Boston and back to CT, I was able to go 240 miles in 44 degree weather starting out at 100%. I had 12% remaining when arriving at the supercharger in Manchester CT. I have a 2022 model Y LR , 19" tires , bought in Nov 21. Estimated range is 330. That is about a 27% drop with cold weather. I only drove between 65 to 70 mph. That is not to bad. If I drove 75 mph, the efficiency would be worse. Speed kills and cold weather too. I look forward to the warmer weather and better efficiency. That was my first long trip with the car. I was not sure how far I would be able to make it, this was the reason for staying below 70 mph I knew I would not make it from CT to MA and back to my home on one charge. I stopped in Manchester to charge for 15 minutes. I think I charged to 55%. My total round trip was 294 miles. Stopping at the supercharger was not an issue. I trust the estimates the car tells me and it works great in telling you when to go to a supercharger.