Rear Camber arms option - Hardrace

[gearchruncher]

Really helpful...the extreme position of the cam bolt...I assume tighten it all the way clockwise position?

It doesn't matter- just either full toe in or toe out and same on both sides. Full toe out might make other adjustments slightly easier.

 

[Wratran]

Ignore the red...in the process of adjusting the front hardrace arm.

Is the rest of settings good to minimize inner tire wear?

Do I need to get more closer to zero camber?

 

[gearchruncher]

Is the rest of settings good to minimize inner tire wear?

Do I need to get more closer to zero camber?

N2itive has reccomendations here:

How to Install N2itive Tesla SX-1 and TSX-1 Control Arms for Model S & X

How to install your N2itive control arms. Installation instructions for our control arms. Please have a look here to see our best practices...

n2itive.me

I would go a bit lower on both camber and toe.

 

[largon]

Spent some time crawling beside the rear of my '17 MS - installed Hardrace camber and toe arms. Was surprised to find toe arm's eccentric (inner) bolt does not need to be cut 'n' sawed to get it out. Just free the outer end of the toe arm first, then wiggle the inner bolt out so that the eccentric lobe of the bolt is facing downward and it'll slip out easily actually.

By looking at pictures of model X installations this might only work on the S, and not the X.

But oh man, finding clearance for tightening some of these bolts to spec is a PITA.

 

[Wratran]

I got the camber installed...waiting on the toe arm.

This is dumb question...
Is there any tips on setting up the adjustable toe rod end?

Do you set the smaller rod length the same as the larger rod to start?...somehow my was max out with a few turns...hits the smaller rod

To adjust...just loosen the 2 end nuts...and turn the big middle nuts?...which way is extend ... clockwise or counterclockwise?

 

[gearchruncher]

Is there any tips on setting up the adjustable toe rod end?

Do you set the smaller rod length the same as the larger rod to start?...somehow my was max out with a few turns.

To adjust...just loosen the 2 end nuts...and turn the big middle nuts?...which way is extend ...toward the body or the wheel hub?

First, spin both of them all the way in so it is as short as you can make it.
Then, you only use the "middle" one to adjust length. But to do this, you have to hold both ends so they don't spin, or they will get unbalanced. Easiest way to do this is just on the car, but you can do it by hand off the car too.
The adjuster adjusts like a normal bolt. Clockwise makes it go "into" the arm, meaning shorter overall.
Then, once it's all on the car and aligned the way you want, you tighten the smallest and largest nuts, which are lock nuts. Smallest against middle, biggest against the arm body.

 

[Wratran]

This is super helpful...

 

[The T-man]

what's the best place to purchase, price-wise?

 

[MojoP85D]

Posting a review of the Hardrace Q0601 rear camber arms for the S/X cars.

These things are well made, and inexpensive (if you can find them). Aluminum main structure, with a curve very much like OEM. Appears to be CNC'd aluminum, shot peened, and then anodized. Reasonable adjustment method, and solid shielded pillowball/spherical bearings at the ends. Had no issues getting these aligned, although I do my own alignments, and don't align from below the car, so I can't tell how easy the adjuster would be to access. You can save a lot of time by making the hole ends 290mm apart, which will get you right around 0.4 degrees camber. The threads are slop free and didn't change alignment when tightening the lock nuts. Given the basically stock curve of the arm, I didn't find any issues with interference with anything even across a full swing of the suspension. When they are at stock length, the ride sensor hole is in exactly the same spot as stock.

Took about 10 minutes per side to install. The pillowballs are nice as you can tighten everything down while drooped, unlike rubber bushings. Have a couple hundred miles on them with no noises or issues.

These are pretty much unobtanium in the USA. I bought mine from the Europe seller, who had reasonable shipping to the USA. They seem to be on Ebay pretty commonly. I paid about $260 shipped to USA.


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Gearcruncher I appreciate your detailed Info. I’m currentl in the process of changing my stock, fixed rear camber. After 8 m’s How has the Hardrace rear camber arm heldup? Are you happy with the Hardrace camber? So, far I have found only 3 options - Hardrace, N2itive and Un plug Perf. I see EVT is no longer around, but I also heard it did not hold up well. I don’t know how accurate this is, but I read that the Unplug unit has the same design as the EVT. The N2itive unit looks solid, but like you I would like to save some money and spend it on some other improvement. I’m hoping to hear that the Hardrace is doing its job and holding up. Thanks for your feedback. RR

 

[gearchruncher]

The camber arms have held up fine as far as I know. Just got back from a 3K mile road trip. I've had no issues, but I've also not done any kind of detailed inspection as I've had no reason to do so. I did adjust them about 5 months ago and they were fine and re-adjusted easily.

 

[MojoP85D]

Thanks a lot gearcruncher! This helped me out a bunch! Was able to grab a pair of hard races out of Europe for $250 and a cheap camber gauge. You were spot on with the 290mm starting adjustment and the toe arm had just enough adjustment to get the tire back out right. Next stop Tesla for a finer alignment

Jrad446- hello. I’m in the process of replacing my stock camber arms. It looks like there’s 2 options, Hardrace or N2itive. How are your Hardrace camber arms doing? Are they holding up, and doing to the job to eliminate the wearing out of the rear inner tire? Thanks

 

[MojoP85D]

Curious about your thoughts. And I’ve spoken with the SC and asked them why don’t they offer a 20” for the S. Obviously, they do not know, but said you won’t be able to align the 20s. I said the alignment has nothing to do with wheel#The camber arms have held up fine as far as I know. Just got back from a 3K mile road trip. I've had no issues, but I've also not done any kind of detailed inspection as I've had no reason to do so. I did adjust them about 5 months ago and they were fine and re-adjusted easily.

Thanks for the update. How are your rear wheels wearing, especially the troublesome inner tire wear? Thanks again for all your info and insight. One other question. I know you put on the Hardrace camber arm and had no trouble. Do you do your on wheel alignments, or have an independent shop do it? I watched several DIY wheel alignments, and wasn’t sure if you did your own. Thanks again. BTW, I’m running 20’ streamline wheels off a Model X, with 255/40/20 square tires. I got that input from another member off a wheel post. He had road racing exp, and felt this was the best set up. Lots of trad on the road and can rotate the tires. I like mine, I think it’s a good option between 19 & 21s. Plus even # wheels have a lot more tire options. Also, based on what I’ve read about the car going into the low body mode and the extra stress on the rear camber/wheels. I turned off my low mode and keep it in standard. There’s only a 1/4” height difference from what I can tell. I have a P85D with 150K miles. No issues except for tire wear. Thanks RR

 

[The T-man]

where's the best place to buy these?

 

[peakay]

Hey there, what is the ride quality with these bushings and how are they holding up? Really concerned ride harshness will increase.

thanks!

 

[peakay]

if you're lowered and want it near -1 you're also going to need toe links ask me how i know.

@krsgio what happened? Can you elaborate?

 

[gearchruncher]

Hey there, what is the ride quality with these bushings and how are they holding up? Really concerned ride harshness will increase.

I have noticed no difference since I installed them.

 

[krsgio]

@krsgio what happened? Can you elaborate?

Essentially you focus too much on getting camber to your desired setting then find out you don't have the ability to set toe to spec because it could potentially be beyond the max toe adjustment. Not an issue if you have camber and toe links but if you want a specific amount of camber without toe links you (or your now pissed off alignment shop) could spend a lot of time balancing setting camber then having to undo your work to dial more negative camber until you have appropriate toe adjustments available to be within spec.

 

[peakay]

I have noticed no difference since I installed them.

Wow, are you sure? I believe you, bvut here's what I read about pillow ball mounts, which are essentially metal bushings replacing a much softer rubber bushing. I'd love to use them as I can buy the camber and toe links for les than just the n2itive camber links

Pillow Ball Mounts​

Despite their misleading title, pillow ball mounts are solid metal mounts that are used in areas such as the upper strut mount. The rubber normally used is replaced with a metal spherical bearing. Rather than deflecting from the cornering forces like a conventional rubber bushing, pillow ball mounts do not move at all. This translates into a far more precise feel from the suspension and steering.

Considerations​

While pillow ball mounts definitely increase a vehicle's handling and steering response, they do so at the cost of comfort. The metal bearings will transmit far more vibrations from the road, which will make the vehicle less comfortable. They can also rattle and squeak. This may be fine if the car in question is not a daily driver and used for recreational driving or track driving. However, if the car is driven frequently on the street, pillow ball mounts may be too extreme.

source: What Are Pillow Ball Mounts?

 

[gearchruncher]

I drive race cars. I know what solid mounts are. You're replacing 2 of maybe 14 bushings in the back and none in front. I'm sure technically the NVH is higher, but I'm just sharing I didn't notice it. I'm sure you would if you replaced all 40 of them on the car.

 

[peakay]

I drive race cars. I know what solid mounts are. You're replacing 2 of maybe 14 bushings in the back and none in front. I'm sure technically the NVH is higher, but I'm just sharing I didn't notice it. I'm sure you would if you replaced all 40 of them on the car.

Sounds good. Long time racer here too, but I’m very particular about bushings on a street car. I wouldn’t want any added nvh on my 2012 S.

Can anyone else vouch for what the feel and sound is like when adding both the camber and toe links?

Thanks.