Rear Wheel Drive in a Tesla

[Matt125]

Hi Model S owners!

I'm a Model 3 reservation holder in the UK. By the time the Model 3 launches here, I'm sure AWD will be available, but I don't think I'll be able to afford it.

I was wondering what the driving dynamics for a RWD Tesla are like. The only cars I've ever driven have all been FWD fossils. Since the motor is at the back right between the wheels in a Tesla RWD, I would have thought that the driving wouldn't feel that different. My main areas of concern are steering and traction control, particularly if I need to get the car over snow or a bit of muddy ground.

I would very much value your knowledge on this, thanks very much!

 

[FlyingCookie]

Snow and mud are less than fun, though snow can be helped with good winter tires... My one trek down a mud road was not fun at all, but I made it, slowly, alright.

The 2nd gen traction control is awesome, and the Model 3 will have that. First gen traction control like my P85 has will let the back of the car break free if you're not careful, but with the Model 3 having much less power and much better traction control, I expect it'll be much more tame.

I'd bet the Model 3 will be a very solidly planted car, and unless you floor it around turns every day, you likely won't ever notice or care that it's RWD. It'll also not have torque steer, due to not being FWD.

 

[Matt125]

Snow and mud are less than fun, though snow can be helped with good winter tires... My one trek down a mud road was not fun at all, but I made it, slowly, alright.

The 2nd gen traction control is awesome, and the Model 3 will have that. First gen traction control like my P85 has will let the back of the car break free if you're not careful, but with the Model 3 having much less power and much better traction control, I expect it'll be much more tame.

I'd bet the Model 3 will be a very solidly planted car, and unless you floor it around turns every day, you likely won't ever notice or care that it's RWD. It'll also not have torque steer, due to not being FWD.

Thanks. The UK rarely has snow deeper than a couple of inches and it tends to melt rather quickly, but for that reason nobody has winter tyres.

I currently drive a Vauxhall (Opel) Corsa that is FWD and it rather humiliates the BMW that one of my colleagues drives to the office because the BMW is RWD, and there just happens to be a lot of ice on the road at the moment.

Snow won't be enough of a justification for me to go for AWD, but steering and the overall driving experience definitely will. I'd be interested to know, in general, if there is any discernability between FWD and a RWD Tesla. I've taken a Model S P85 for a test drive but that was only for an hour.

I don't exactly floor my current car around turns but I do drive fast and I only apply as much braking as is needed around corners - I don't overdo it! The main thing for me is pulling out onto main roads from a minor side road on a blind junction and immediately encountering cars. The acceleration of a Tesla will definitely help here, but I also do put my foot right down on the pedal in these situations and less wheel spin would just be lovely.

 

[jon1478]

Snow and mud are less than fun, though snow can be helped with good winter tires... My one trek down a mud road was not fun at all, but I made it, slowly, alright.

The 2nd gen traction control is awesome, and the Model 3 will have that. First gen traction control like my P85 has will let the back of the car break free if you're not careful, but with the Model 3 having much less power and much better traction control, I expect it'll be much more tame.

I'd bet the Model 3 will be a very solidly planted car, and unless you floor it around turns every day, you likely won't ever notice or care that it's RWD. It'll also not have torque steer, due to not being FWD.

Is it possible to upgrade to the 2nd generation traction control?

 

[mikemillar]

I've had a RWD S85 for 3 years and the handling is fine for me, l live in south of UK and snow not a problem, but the traction control on wet grass is amazing, you just cannot spin the wheels. I don't do a lot of hard cornering or acceleration but the only difference I've noticed with 4WD loaners is more noise from the front motor. Also in the RWD S85 the frunk will just take a spare tyre - useful for continental touring as the tyres are difficult to source. I'm coming unto 35K miles and still have 3mm on the original tyres. Some people get through a set in 10K miles so they must drive the car hard and no doubt would benefit from FWD. But unless that's your style of driving I doubt if you would regret not having 4WD.

On wheel size, unless hard driving is your thing the standard higher profile wheels are probably a better bet. I've got the 19 inch ones, but the model 3 uses different sizes. There are threads on this and, general opinion is that they are less prone to pothole damage, smoother ride and not so noisy - it's a very quiet car and tyre noise at speed is one of the few intrusive noises. They are also cheaper than the low profile option. I had Alloygaters fitted and they have saved some kerbing damage, just make an occasional check that they are secure. They tend to creep out over time. Someone had one come partly off, damaging the paintwork.

 

[Matt125]

I've had a RWD S85 for 3 years and the handling is fine for me, l live in south of UK and snow not a problem, but the traction control on wet grass is amazing, you just cannot spin the wheels. I don't do a lot of hard cornering or acceleration but the only difference I've noticed with 4WD loaners is more noise from the front motor. Also in the RWD S85 the frunk will just take a spare tyre - useful for continental touring as the tyres are difficult to source. I'm coming unto 35K miles and still have 3mm on the original tyres. Some people get through a set in 10K miles so they must drive the car hard and no doubt would benefit from FWD. But unless that's your style of driving I doubt if you would regret not having 4WD.

On wheel size, unless hard driving is your thing the standard higher profile wheels are probably a better bet. I've got the 19 inch ones, but the model 3 uses different sizes. There are threads on this and, general opinion is that they are less prone to pothole damage, smoother ride and not so noisy - it's a very quiet car and tyre noise at speed is one of the few intrusive noises. They are also cheaper than the low profile option. I had Alloygaters fitted and they have saved some kerbing damage, just make an occasional check that they are secure. They tend to creep out over time. Someone had one come partly off, damaging the paintwork.

Very useful, thanks.

I drive my current car very hard and the tyres do wear out, but I have to drive it hard to get decent acceleration. I won't have to do that in a Tesla!

 

[mknox]

Going into my 5th Canadian winter with my RWD S85. I have never once been in a situation where I've thought AWD could have gotten me out of a situation that my RWD couldn't, and I often drive in very deep, snowy conditions. The limiting factor for me is ground clearance. Once the snow is higher than the belly of the car, you're not going anywhere RWD or AWD. And stopping, the most important thing in winter, is not helped one iota with AWD. I blame all the marketing of AWD and 4WD vehicles for this popular misconception.

The most important thing is a good set of winter tires. I highly recommend Nokian Hakka R2 tires.

 

[rdr1rx]

Go to YouTube. In the search box, type:

Bjorn Nyland

Rear-drive adventures in a P85 all over cold, snowy Norway.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

Dual motor cars handle completely different from RWD ones. I felt as if they are more planted and more on rails, whereas every S75/85 I've driven feels a little more floaty and RWD feeling (as it should). I drive a Scion FRS as well which is about as RWD and drivers car as you can get, so I love RWD. In a Tesla, however, the dual motor technology is what makes Tesla miles ahead of the competition. I will probably end up getting a RWD Model 3 so I can get it ASAP, but if you can wait for dual I really urge you to wait. Top speed, off the line acceleration, and highway passing will all be better on the D, as will handling as I mentioned. Drive both, you will notice a difference

 

[Nick B]

I agree 100%.

I have a P85+ and I've had it for 2 winters now. Have not gotten stuck at any point in snow... we just had a 20cm snowfall this week and I was able to go around with the car pretty much everywhere. The clearance with the car is quite surprising, even the air suspension would, in my mind, not be completely necessary (unless you need to get in and out of a steep driveway). My previous car was a lexus RX 350 and the only real advantage it had was it's capacity to accelerate in deep snow from zero. Otherwise, good snow tires make a huge difference and the car is very heavy, which helps a lot while driving in snow. The traction control is a little intrusive to my liking but it basically makes it almost impossible to lose control with the car. Honestly, for the number of days where we get real 20 cm snowfalls, the inconvenience is very minor.

Sure, a 4WD is ultimately better but it's also about 30 000$ more here in Canada!

I have Michelin X-ice tires and they're great, especially on ice.

Going into my 5th Canadian winter with my RWD S85. I have never once been in a situation where I've thought AWD could have gotten me out of a situation that my RWD couldn't, and I often drive in very deep, snowy conditions. The limiting factor for me is ground clearance. Once the snow is higher than the belly of the car, you're not going anywhere RWD or AWD. And stopping, the most important thing in winter, is not helped one iota with AWD. I blame all the marketing of AWD and 4WD vehicles for this popular misconception.

The most important thing is a good set of winter tires. I highly recommend Nokian Hakka R2 tires.

 

[Matt125]

Thanks everyone. We really don't have a problem with snow here so that isn't a factor for me. Only the driving experience itself, and all I've driven so far are FWD cars.

If AWD costs an extra £5k I'll drop it - I'd rather spend that on Premium Upgrades or Autopilot, and I don't have the luxury of being able to afford everything. Even if my salary does increase as I hope it will over the next few years, I'll also have a mortgage and other things in life...

 

[David99]

There is no doubt that AWD is better. Having all 4 wheels accelerate and slow down the car is better than only 2 wheels. But the difference is not important and it makes almost no difference in most driving situations. Especially on regular roads you will not feel a difference nor have an advantage. AWD really starts to make a positive difference when you drive the car at the limits. On a racing track or hard core acceleration. Since we don't do that there is very little reason to get AWD. I'm almost 4 years into my RWD Model S. Never had a situation where RWD cause an issue or made the car unstable that would have been solved with AWD. The only time I got stuck in the snow was when the snow was so deep that ground clearance was an issue. AWD would not have helped.

 

[artsci]

In my experience the RWD is fine. The car handles as well as a RWD car handles. I used to have a RWD Honda S2000, which was notorious for the rear end breaking loose if you pushed it too hard. I’ve had none of that kind of experience with my P85.

I live in a hillly neighborhood and the few times we’ve had deep snow I’ve learned to turn off the traction control. Believe it or not it makes it easier to do the kind of subtle throttle control needed in deep snow/very slippery conditions.