Recent MYP Purchase - 14-50 Plug Installed - Have Questions in SoCal

[Bucketz]

Hello All,

I have scoured these forums over the last month trying my best to learn as much about Tesla as possible. I picked up my MYP June 2nd.

I moved to an apartment building with 8 units, quite small, but I asked the owner, if I pay out of my pocket to install a 14-50, do they mind if I do so and they can keep it when I leave. They said yes.

Fast forward to today, I got the plug installed and have a mobile charger. I have a silly question - do I need to do anything special with the electrical company? In my case, LADWP.

I looked everywhere on here for the answer but can't find it or haven't yet.

Also, the box is outside literally next to where I park, maybe a foot away and I asked the electrician if he installed a gfci breaker as I read they were required for this plug, he said he didn't - is that bad news? Any insight in appreciated, thank you!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hello All,

I have scoured these forums over the last month trying my best to learn as much about Tesla as possible. I picked up my MYP June 2nd.

I moved to an apartment building with 8 units, quite small, but I asked the owner, if I pay out of my pocket to install a 14-50, do they mind if I do so and they can keep it when I leave. They said yes.

Fast forward to today, I got the plug installed and have a mobile charger. I have a silly question - do I need to do anything special with the electrical company? In my case, LADWP.

I looked everywhere on here for the answer but can't find it or haven't yet.

You can directly ask your utility for sure, but if you did not upgrade your main panel where your power meter is, there is no practical reason why your utility needs to know.

Also, the box is outside literally next to where I park, maybe a foot away and I asked the electrician if he installed a gfci breaker as I read they were required for this plug, he said he didn't - is that bad news? Any insight in appreciated, thank you!

That means they likely didn't get a permit and it inspected, or if they did, they didn't tell inspector it was for an EVSE. Under NEC 2017 or newer (which California has long adopted), a socket for an EVSE requires GFCI (either in the socket or a breaker; given there are no 50A sockets with GFCI built in, that means a breaker).

If it was unpermitted, I'm not sure if your owner would be ok with that. If it was the latter (inspector just let it pass), then it becomes more of a personal question. Technically it violates code, although legally perhaps it can be argued the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) allowed it, and the safety issue that GFCI breaker is intended to address is being electrocuted by contacting prongs of the 14-50 socket.

 

[jcanoe]

A 14-50 receptacle for an RV motorhome does not require a GFCI (the GFCI is not compatible with most RV electrical systems.)

You can use the 14-50 receptacle as installed but be careful when plugging in the Tesla Mobile Connector as you could get electrocuted while plugging or unplugging the Mobile Connector from the 14-50 receptacle (That is why a GFCI is now required for the 14-50, any EV charging circuit with a receptacle.)

Once plugged in, leave it plugged in. This exposes the Tesla Mobile Connector to theft but most 14-50 receptacles are not designed for repeated plugging and unplugging. Don't let the Mobile Connector hang supported by the power plug adapter. Tesla sells a Cable Organizer kit that includes a bracket for securing the Mobile Connector chassis.

Your best option, now, is to ask the landlord if you can install the Tesla Wall Connector in place of the 14-50 receptacle. Most of the electrical work has already been done. You can have an electrician restore the 14-50 receptacle when you move out. The Tesla Wall Connector would enable charging at 40 amps instead of being limited to 32 amps with the 50 amp rated circuit. The Wall Connector is not as easily stolen and you can limit the ability to use the Wall Connector to specific Tesla vehicles.

 

[davewill]

I'd be very concerned about the possible lack of a permit and inspection. Code compliance in a multi-family dwelling is a much more serious matter (from a liability standpoint) than in a single family home.

This is why I would never let a tenant do something like this. It's my liability, and I would rather foot the bill and know it's done properly.

 

[Bucketz]

You can directly ask your utility for sure, but if you did not upgrade your main panel where your power meter is, there is no practical reason why your utility needs to know.

That means they likely didn't get a permit and it inspected, or if they did, they didn't tell inspector it was for an EVSE. Under NEC 2017 or newer (which California has long adopted), a socket for an EVSE requires GFCI (either in the socket or a breaker; given there are no 50A sockets with GFCI built in, that means a breaker).

If it was unpermitted, I'm not sure if your owner would be ok with that. If it was the latter (inspector just let it pass), then it becomes more of a personal question. Technically it violates code, although legally perhaps it can be argued the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) allowed it, and the safety issue that GFCI breaker is intended to address is being electrocuted by contacting prongs of the 14-50 socket.

Understood. The risk doesn't sound too good. I will hold off on using it for the time being. But I could also get a gfci breaker and replace the one installed to satisfy the code?

 

[Bucketz]

A 14-50 receptacle for an RV motorhome does not require a GFCI (the GFCI is not compatible with most RV electrical systems.)

You can use the 14-50 receptacle as installed but be careful when plugging in the Tesla Mobile Connector as you could get electrocuted while plugging or unplugging the Mobile Connector from the 14-50 receptacle (That is why a GFCI is now required for the 14-50, any EV charging circuit with a receptacle.)

Once plugged in, leave it plugged in. This exposes the Tesla Mobile Connector to theft but most 14-50 receptacles are not designed for repeated plugging and unplugging. Don't let the Mobile Connector hang supported by the power plug adapter. Tesla sells a Cable Organizer kit that includes a bracket for securing the Mobile Connector chassis.

Your best option, now, is to ask the landlord if you can install the Tesla Wall Connector in place of the 14-50 receptacle. Most of the electrical work has already been done. You can have an electrician restore the 14-50 receptacle when you move out. The Tesla Wall Connector would enable charging at 40 amps instead of being limited to 32 amps with the 50 amp rated circuit. The Wall Connector is not as easily stolen and you can limit the ability to use the Wall Connector to specific Tesla vehicles.

Yeah electrocution sounds like the opposite of what I want. I had him install it with space to install the mounting unit in the box so I never had to plug and unplug. Should I need to have access to the MCU, I will purchase another and keep it in the car.

I would go the TWC route but the space is limited in that box where the units are, which is why it seemed the 14-50 was my only option honestly.

 

[Bucketz]

I'd be very concerned about the possible lack of a permit and inspection. Code compliance in a multi-family dwelling is a much more serious matter (from a liability standpoint) than in a single family home.

This is why I would never let a tenant do something like this. It's my liability, and I would rather foot the bill and know it's done properly.

What could I do to mitigate the risks of this? I definitely don't want to be THAT guy which is why I defer to these forums to see best course of action now that I already had it installed. I like doing things the proper way to ensure the saftey of others and responsibility on my end.

 

[davewill]

What could I do to mitigate the risks of this? I definitely don't want to be THAT guy which is why I defer to these forums to see best course of action now that I already had it installed. I like doing things the proper way to ensure the saftey of others and responsibility on my end.

Have it permitted and inspected. There's really no substitute.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Understood. The risk doesn't sound too good. I will hold off on using it for the time being. But I could also get a gfci breaker and replace the one installed to satisfy the code?

Yes, you can replace the breaker with a GFCI one to satisfy that portion. It is unknown however if other parts of the install meet code (did they use the proper size/type conductors for example). As another mentioned, probably best way is to get it permitted and inspected.

 

[Bucketz]

Yes, you can replace the breaker with a GFCI one to satisfy that portion. It is unknown however if other parts of the install meet code (did they use the proper size/type conductors for example). As another mentioned, probably best way is to get it permitted and inspected.

Ok - I will do that. I asked if the wire was a 6 gauge which he confirmed. Other than that, of course I'm unsure. Will contact this gentleman's company to ensure it's adhering to code. Thank you.

 

[jcanoe]

Yeah electrocution sounds like the opposite of what I want. I had him install it with space to install the mounting unit in the box so I never had to plug and unplug. Should I need to have access to the MCU, I will purchase another and keep it in the car.

I would go the TWC route but the space is limited in that box where the units are, which is why it seemed the 14-50 was my only option honestly.

If you can access the breaker panel then turn off the 50A breaker before plugging in or unplugging the Mobile Connector from the 14-50 receptacle. Turning off the power to the 14-50 receptacle would eliminate the risk of electrocution when plugging and unplugging the power plug adapter.

 

[Bucketz]

If you can access the breaker panel then turn off the 50A breaker before plugging in or unplugging the Mobile Connector from the 14-50 receptacle. Turning off the power to the 14-50 receptacle would eliminate the risk of electrocution when plugging and unplugging the power plug adapter.

Was just thinking that. I will do that everytime if necessary. I was reading another thread on here about the gfci breakers causing trips and other forum members saying it's because they really don't help the way they were intended. But of course, this is going against the grain..

 

[Bucketz]

If you can access the breaker panel then turn off the 50A breaker before plugging in or unplugging the Mobile Connector from the 14-50 receptacle. Turning off the power to the 14-50 receptacle would eliminate the risk of electrocution when plugging and unplugging the power plug adapter.

Sorry - I meant to put that the breaker is literally next to it, a few inches, so it is all very accessible.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Literally hundreds of thousands of people have used non GFCI protected breakers for EV charging. I have yet to hear of someone getting electrocuted from one. While it is theoretically possible, it is unlikely. I would go ahead and use that 14-50, especially since you said you weren’t going to plug/unplug the mobile connector. If you want to spent the extra $100 plus labor for a 50A GFCI breaker, go for it. Swapping out a breaker is pretty quick.

 

[Jerryr]

I’ve installed several 14-50 outlets for our RVs and more recently use them for our Model Y.

Code does not require GFCIs for RVs. I’ve used these receptacles to charge my current and previous EVs for over 5 years. As a safe best practice I NEVER plug my RV or Car into a live 50 amp outlet.

If there isn’t a circuit breaker within arms reach of the outlet I use an RV panel box that has a built in CB.

At our house garage I recently had a 60 amp hard wired Tesla Wall connector installed and I love it. I needed 24 foot cord to reach the 2 Model Ys we own and also charge at 48 amps, 50% faster than the 32 amp charge from a mobile connector.

This is the RV panel box I’ve used several times and I have one installed at our cabin, even though a CB is next to it. I installed this so I can have an additional 120 volt outlet to plug in a vacuum cleaner if needed. GE RV Panel with 50 Amp RV Receptacle and 20 Amp GFCI Receptacle GE1LU502SS - The Home Depot

 

[Bucketz]

Now I'm

Literally hundreds of thousands of people have used non GFCI protected breakers for EV charging. I have yet to hear of someone getting electrocuted from one. While it is theoretically possible, it is unlikely. I would go ahead and use that 14-50, especially since you said you weren’t going to plug/unplug the mobile connector. If you want to spent the extra $100 plus labor for a 50A GFCI breaker, go for it. Swapping out a breaker is pretty quick.

probably going to just leave it because the breaker is literally right next to it and is marked, so there is no room for error with a simple switch off to plug in and on once plugged...

 

[stopcrazypp]

A 14-50 receptacle for an RV motorhome does not require a GFCI (the GFCI is not compatible with most RV electrical systems.)

I’ve installed several 14-50 outlets for our RVs and more recently use them for our Model Y.

Code does not require GFCIs for RVs. I’ve used these receptacles to charge my current and previous EVs for over 5 years. As a safe best practice I NEVER plug my RV or Car into a live 50 amp outlet.

I keep seeing this discussion about RVs, so I want to head it off and clarify. The OP is not installing the 14-50 for an RV, so that is not applicable to him.

However, he is explicitly installing it for an EVSE. GFCI for an outlet installed for an EVSE is the requirement of NEC 2017:

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/Proposed_TIA_1242_NFPA_70.pdf

Note a 14-50 receptacle falls under it because it is 120V to ground (line to line may be 240V, but it specifies to ground specifically) and it is 50A or less.

For NEC 2020 further says all receptacles (no voltage/current specs):

625.54 – Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel
All receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel. Fixed equipment containing integral GFCI protection shall not require additional branch circuit GFCI protection.

These are the states that have adopted NEC 2017 or newer (OP is in California where it's already at the 2020 version):

Learn where the National Electrical Code® (NEC®) is enforced. | NFPA

Discover which edition of the NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC) is enforced in your state.

www.nfpa.org

 

[hsfrank]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned, holding the electrician responsible for doing the job properly. Unless this was a “under the table“ job done for minimum cost paid in cash, and no permit specified at time of initiating the request for the job, it is entirely proper to contact the electrician insist that he get it inspected and permitted and reworked to comply with current code requirements.

 

[hsfrank]

he should be willing to do this since his license, as well as that of the company he works for is at stake.

 

[jcanoe]

The electrician should have asked, been informed of the specific electrical application for the 240V/50A circuit. If the property owner specified a 240V/50A circuit with the 14-50 receptacle for powering an RV then the electrician is not to blame.

Some electricians would want to see the equipment to be powered (to read the electrical specifications on the plate or label that is always provided by the manufacturer) or read the installation documentation before performing the work. You can't blame the electrician if the circuit is later modified or used in a way other than originally intended.