240V home charger installation

[Mike728]

Same here! I used a local NJ licensed electrician recommended by Tesla. Yes they were expensive! Yes they did excellent work. They purchase all of the required mateiral at a local electrical supply house and not at cheaper big box stores. They filled out the required load/data form and submitted it to NJ PSE&G so I was able to receive the PSE&G $1500 rebate. They also arranged for the required local permit and inspection.
You get what you pay for in this world.

That was expensive? Did they need to upgrade your service?

I think my install is expensive, but it also requires a service upgrade from 100A to 200A. It's also a little over 50 feet from the new panel to the garage, where the installation will be.

 

[howardnj]

That was expensive? Did they need to upgrade your service?

I think my install is expensive, but it also requires a service upgrade from 100A to 200A. It's also a little over 50 feet from the new panel to the garage, where the installation will be.

My 200 amp panel was previously replaced prior to ordering my Y
I originally had a 200 amp Federal Pacific panel that had to be replaced.
Over 150 ft of #2 four conductor aluminum cable was run from the basement 200 amp panel thru the finished basement hung ceiling up to the garage attic and down to the garage sub panel. You just add the cost of the EV charger to the price of your first EV as if it was an option just like any other car. I had to pay extra for air conditioning in my 1974 Mazda RX4. so I paid extra for my first EV charger.

 

[Mike728]

...Over 150 ft of #2 four conductor aluminum cable was run ...

Aluminum? That's not been allowed here for as long as I can remember. We have to use copper wire carried in a metal conduit for all runs over 6 feet. One of the reasons my install is so expensive. If I compare the quote I went with, vs the highest, I'm getting a bargain! It's always good to get several quotes from reputable businesses.

 

[davewill]

Aluminum? That's not been allowed here for as long as I can remember. We have to use copper wire carried in a metal conduit for all runs over 6 feet. One of the reasons my install is so expensive. If I compare the quote I went with, vs the highest, I'm getting a bargain! It's always good to get several quotes from reputable businesses.

Are you sure of that? Aluminum is generally only used on long runs where the cost difference is significant. It makes no sense to use it on short runs. Maybe there was a particular reason it wasn't usable on your job?

 

[howardnj]

Are you sure of that? Aluminum is generally only used on long runs where the cost difference is significant. It makes no sense to use it on short runs. Maybe there was a particular reason it wasn't usable on your job?

From Google

What is the best wire for long distance electricity?

So, for high voltage, long distance electrical applications, aluminum wire can be used. It's an acceptable conductor that typically requires a thicker gauge, but it's much lighter and less expensive than copper wire. For example, power lines use aluminum wire instead of copper.

 

[Mike728]

Are you sure of that? Aluminum is generally only used on long runs where the cost difference is significant. It makes no sense to use it on short runs. Maybe there was a particular reason it wasn't usable on your job?

We're talking indoor, right? The picture he shared looks to be indoors, but I could be wrong.

 

[tga]

Aluminum? That's not been allowed here for as long as I can remember. We have to use copper wire carried in a metal conduit for all runs over 6 feet. One of the reasons my install is so expensive. If I compare the quote I went with, vs the highest, I'm getting a bargain! It's always good to get several quotes from reputable businesses.

For 15 and 20A branch circuits, it's definitely a no-no. But it is commonly used for subpanels and service entrances. If the terminals are properly torqued and "gooped" with NoAlOx, it's perfectly acceptable, safe, and legal to use Al wiring for a subpanel. Today's Al alloys have much lower thermal expansion and corrosion issues (the cause of the problems that plagued homes with Al branch circuits in the late 60's/early 70's).

Unless you have local rules that specify otherwise, 2 gauge Al is completely fine for a 90A subpanel. Some inspectors will allow 100A, based on old code or a misapplication of the service entrance rules.

 

[tga]

I used to tell people to install a 6-50, especially for long runs (savings on copper vs 14-50). Now I tell them to use a hard-wired EVSE.

Cost:

• NEC 2017 required all 240V outlets installed for the purpose of EV charging to be GFCI-equipped. If you told the electrician or inspector it was for a welder, RV, etc, no GFCI was required by code.
• NEC 2020 expanded the GFCI requirement to all 240V outlets in garages, basements, wet areas, etc.
• Per @Rocky_H's map in post #40, 43 states are on NEC 2017 or later.

This means that most 240V outlets installed today will need to have GFCI protection, adding significant cost ($100 for the breaker, plus cost for a neutral wire if you insist on a 14-50).

Safety: Fewer connections and no outlet means hardwired EVSE's are safer with less risk of fire.

Nuisance tripping: All J1772-compliant EVSE's - including the Wall Connector - are required to have built in GFCI protection and to test that GFCI before starting a charge session. This means you do not want GFCI protection upstream, so you don't get "nuisance tripping," where the EVSE's test of the internal GFCI circuitry trips the GFCI breaker (happens at the start of the charge, before the current ramps up).

In fact, the Gen 3 wall connector manual states: "Wall Connector includes integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker." (p 6, their emphasis).

Hardwired wall connector is the way to go.

 

[heavync]

Usually purchasing, installing the Tesla Wall Connector instead of installing a 14-50 receptacle and purchasing the Tesla Mobile Connector is the better option.

Why?

 

[davewill]

Why?

Because the outlet requires the extra expense of a GFCI breaker, four wire cable, and the outlet itself, making the two nearly the same price, installed. The Wall Connector is built more robustly and supports higher charging rates, if desired.

However, if you already have the outlet, or want/need a Mobile Connector anyway, the economics can shift.

Another factor is that we have many, many more people here complaining how their outlet has failed in some way than we do Wall Connector installs blowing up.

 

[heavync]

Because the outlet requires the extra expense of a GFCI breaker, four wire cable, and the outlet itself, making the two nearly the same price, installed. The Wall Connector is built more robustly and supports higher charging rates, if desired.

However, if you already have the outlet, or want/need a Mobile Connector anyway, the economics can shift.

Another factor is that we have many, many more people here complaining how their outlet has failed in some way than we do Wall Connector installs blowing up.

Got it. Thank you

 

[tga]

Why?

This electrician's site has a good FAQ on this - https://www.williamselectric.net/documents/FAQs-NEMA-1450-outlets-pkg-20210919.pdf

 

[jcanoe]

Why?

It's not 2012 anymore. Many EV owners have been down the road of Level 1 charging at 120V, then Level 2 (240V) charging using a receptacle (i.e. 6-20R, 10-30R, 14-30R, 14-50R, or 6-50R). Today hard wired charging stations are more affordable, more reliable, smarter, internet connected, potentially capable of faster charging while costing about the same as installing a receptacle such as a 14-50R.

My 14-50 receptacle and a 50 amp circuit was installed in 2016. The 14-50 was the right choice for me at the time. Today I would install the hard wired Tesla Wall Connector. I rarely need to unplug my charging station. I can use the Tesla Mobile Connector when traveling. Today there are 50,000 Supercharger plug connections, so the need to bring the Mobile Connector on trips is greatly reduced in many cases. I just purchased, received a Tesla 6-50 power plug adapter for my Mobile Connector but that is for charging at another location that is already equipped with a 6-50R.

In a few years the debate will be whether it is better to install a hard wired charging station, i.e. Wall Connector or a wireless EV charging station. This will happen.

 

[Watts_Up]

I used to tell people to install a 6-50, especially for long runs (savings on copper vs 14-50). Now I tell them to use a hard-wired EVSE.

Cost:

• NEC 2017 required all 240V outlets installed for the purpose of EV charging to be GFCI-equipped. If you told the electrician or inspector it was for a welder, RV, etc, no GFCI was required by code.
• NEC 2020 expanded the GFCI requirement to all 240V outlets in garages, basements, wet areas, etc.
• Per @Rocky_H's map in post #40, 43 states are on NEC 2017 or later.

This means that most 240V outlets installed today will need to have GFCI protection, adding significant cost ($100 for the breaker, plus cost for a neutral wire if you insist on a 14-50).

Safety: Fewer connections and no outlet means hardwired EVSE's are safer with less risk of fire.

Nuisance tripping: All J1772-compliant EVSE's - including the Wall Connector - are required to have built in GFCI protection and to test that GFCI before starting a charge session. This means you do not want GFCI protection upstream, so you don't get "nuisance tripping," where the EVSE's test of the internal GFCI circuitry trips the GFCI breaker (happens at the start of the charge, before the current ramps up).

In fact, the Gen 3 wall connector manual states: "Wall Connector includes integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker." (p 6, their emphasis).

Hardwired wall connector is the way to go.

In the UK, I noticed in some Forums that the Tesla Wall Connector was not recommended
because it doesn't include also an arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) is a circuit breaker.

Do you think that NEC will also require in the future having such AFCI circuit breaker,
both for receptacle plugs and wall connectors?

 

[howardnj]

Can someone please explain to me why some that purchase their first EV want to try and cheap out on installing a proper Tesla Charger and using a licensed electrician using high quality parts, submitting a permit, and obtaining an inspection to avoid the possibly of burning down their house?

 

[davewill]

Can someone please explain to me why some that purchase their first EV want to try and cheap out on installing a proper Tesla Charger and using a licensed electrician using high quality parts, submitting a permit, and obtaining an inspection to avoid the possibly of burning down their house?

There's a few reasons that pop up:

1. They rent and have to involve the landlord to get it done.
2. They plan to move soon.
3. Their electrical situation is not optimal (i.e. too small a panel, a long run needed) and it really is expensive.
4. They're cheap morons who didn't mind paying plenty for a status symbol, but balk at paying an electrician.
5. They're one of these people who think the government is "bad" and since permits come from the government, they refuse to get them.

 

[howardnj]

There's a few reasons that pop up:

1. They rent and have to involve the landlord to get it done.
2. They plan to move soon.
3. Their electrical situation is not optimal (i.e. too small a panel, a long run needed) and it really is expensive.
4. They're cheap morons who didn't mind paying plenty for a status symbol, but balk at paying an electrician.
5. They're one of these people who think the government is "bad" and since permits come from the government, they refuse to get them.

Just spent four months in Florida in a gated condo community with no EV Chargers.
It cost me $250 for my CCS charge adapter that I used at FPL 350 kWh chargers along with Tesla 250 kWh chargers and had no problem whatsoever.

 

[Genie]

Can someone please explain to me why some that purchase their first EV want to try and cheap out on installing a proper Tesla Charger and using a licensed electrician using high quality parts, submitting a permit, and obtaining an inspection to avoid the possibly of burning down their house?

“Human nature”