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Recieved tesla s yesterday no AP2
- Thread starter Sohailhassan
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- Tesla Inc.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
But there's a sales ban in Michigan so who's calling exactly?
Yes, I have no idea what I am talking about. I worked in the automotive industry since I was in high school (I started out washing cars at a Honda dealer when I was 16) and also have worked at an auto factory in a non-production role. While I can't say I was involved in the higher up decisions I do know a fair amount about the processes and how it's difficult for the uneducated customer base to understand the sheer amount of money involved in running a factory. Since I do not work for Tesla and don't have to sugarcoat it, let me spell it out for you: You have buyers remorse. You feel left out. Understandable but not a reasonable way to respond. These are not custom built products. Sure you can order one to your speficification (with VERY limited room to personalize) but Tesla keeps the lines running whether there are ordered cars or not. They have to. That's why there are inventory cars for sale. In a conventional dealer sales model those inventory cars would be sold or floor-planned to dealers to sell. Just as you can "custom order" a Tesla, you can do the same with a Ford, GM, BMW, etc. Depending on the model, some have so few options to choose from that you can likely find your exact car in stock at a dealer and in other cases it's truly only going to be available the way you want it if you order it but a true "custom built product" does not exist within Tesla's ordering process. In other words, if you did not place your order they would still use that spot to build an inventory car that might happen to be the exact same car you were going to order. You special ordered a car but not a custom built car and no matter what the wording, you got what you ordered. You ordered AP1.0. You got AP1.0. You don't have to scour forums or read between the lines. It been common knowledge AP2.0 was coming. No one knew the "when" part exactly but as I told another whiner, if it was that important you should have waited until it was released to order. It's so easy for you to criticize Tesla for not laying out a road map but that would be potentially fatal for them to do. Just like you would have held off, so would everyone else. How can you justify that to shareholders? I am not one by the way. There are things being worked on that will be released in 3-5 years but they would not be smart to tell the public too much. You have to paint in broad strokes the further you are from releasing a product. That's not just the Tesla way, it's the way everyone has to do it. Sure, release a pipe dream concept car but don't show people a much improved product at a comparable price that's not available while you are still trying to make and sell the soon to be "day old" model. You would have been "extremely happy with Tesla if they gave you a heads up. I would think the guy who took delivery last week would say the same thing except he only needed to know 8 days ago and someone who bought a car 5 months ago is saying he would be extremely happy to have known 5 months and 1 day ago. That is just a ridiculous and selfish statement and further proves my earlier post about how self centered some owners are. "Screw the company, screw saving the planet for our children and grandchildren, just make sure I have the latest and greatest. I can have it as long as my neighbor does not know we helpfed you out? Fine by my narcissistic rear end. Just take care of ME!" I will agree with you on one thing: Both of us wish you had never bought a Tesla.
Actually Tesla should have come up with a plan for all 25K+ Tesla S and X owners who purchased their vehicles within the past 30 - 90 days. They could have planned ahead and prewired the vehicles so they could offer AP 2.0 retrofits (for a fee) to recent owners. Tesla has been planning this update for most of 2016. They had already started to make some of the prewire changes needed to S and X vehicles for AP 2.0 as far back as 3 months before it was announced. Some planning is all it would have required.
This isn't a cosmetic change, a performance improvement, or a change in the capacity of the battery. Every one of the 25K+ customers who received AP 1.0 with their Tesla's in the last 90+ days are now blocked from getting all of the future software improvements for AutoPilot. Tesla won't be putting more than a minimal maintenance development effort into AP 1.0. The improvements coming from AP 2.0 will be the exciting highlights of every article, video and feature about Tesla for the next several years. All of the people who received AP 1.0 in the last 3 - 6 months should be disappointed that Tesla left them on their old technology.
By unloading the old inventory of AP 1.0 hardware on thousands of unsuspecting customers without an upgrade path, Tesla has put their short term profits ahead of customer satisfaction. With the AP 2.0 announcement, Tesla has lowered the resale value on all of these vehicles by nearly $10K each. If Tesla chose not to do a retrofit, they should at least be refunding the AP 1.0 cost back to recent owners they've left on the dead-end old technology.[/QUOTE]
Conveniently you fall exactly in the middle of the date range You think Tesla should be taking care of. What a coincidence. You also said you are blocked from future improvements. No one has said there will not still be improvements to AP1.0 cars. There are founders series model s cars out of warranty still getting software updates. There are non AP1.0 cars made in 2012, 2013 and 2014 still getting updates even though it takes resources to make updates for "obsolete " cars like those. What makes you think there will not be further updates for your 2 month old car? (within the limitations of what the car is equipped with). Why does it seem so wrong that you got what you paid for as did someone who bought more than 6 months ago but you are wronged and the 6 month owners are supposed to be ok with it? Because you are selfish. You yourself said this is not a simple change like a cosmetic one. It's not feasible. Read the news man. Its like a spinal cord transplant. What you were asking Tesla to do is to come up with some sort of hybrid wiring harness that would only have been made for a limited number of cars and whose customers may not all have wanted to do the upgrade, especially after they found out the cost involved. That would have been very difficult and taken a lot of resources for a few hundred upgrades at most. The prewiring changes were for when they were going to continue with Mobileeye while working on their in house solution that was coming later. Things changed. It's amazing though that you knew there were changes 2-3 months ago but then feigned ignorance about the car you took delivery of 2 months ago. Tesla blew out inventory to get the AP1.0 cars sold certainly but they also wanted to get a profitable quarter in case they need to raise money for the Model 3/ gigafactory/ solar city deals. They made good deals on those cars and those buyers should be thankful they got a great deal. Why does tesla need to refund you for the AP1.0 cost? You have AP1.0 so you should pay for it. You might have a bit of an argument if AP2.0 cost the same thing as AP1.0 (not really but at least I would be sympathetic for you) but they owe you nothing because you got what you paid for and you feel duped becuase you ASSUMED AP2.0 was a long way away or they would make it retrofittable. That's on you, not on Tesla. Lastly, how did you arrive at your $10000 resale hit? I watch pricing as I am in the market for a model X (one of those outdated AP1.0 ones will be fine) and I have an S (a museum ready model that has less features than a Corolla) and I have not seen any seller drop their asking price $10000 since they announced AP2.0 much less seen a sale at $10K less. This is just pure fantasy on your part. I will make you a wager for $10000 so you can get back some of the money Tesla stole from you. In 6 months when AP2.0 cars are starting to be resold I will bet you there will not be a $10000 difference on an identically equipped and mileage car with the only difference being AP1.0 and the other being AP2.0 once you add in the cost difference for the actual option. In other words if 6 months from now you can show me 2016 model s or x with the same equipment/color/mileage/condition with AP1.0 that sells for $15000 less than a AP2.0 car (since those options are $8k vs $3k for AP1.0; giving you the more favorable price since most will have only paid $2500) I will cut you a check for $10K. If you can't show me that $15K difference you cut me a check for $10K. Ready to put your money where your mouth is? No? then let it go and stop all the fabrications and negativity over YOUR mistake.
To make it easier for the next batch of buyers that will have buyer's remorse when Tesla makes changes there are at least 2 coming soon.
- Model 3 Part 3 will most likely get a HUD and starting that quarter Model S and X will have it. There is a chance it will be an easy retrofit but I think it will need a special windshield.
- Model S/X will get the new batteries that Model 3 will be getting so it will either be a lighter car for the same Kwh capacity or a longer range car.
- Bonus. Expect the Model S to have a body change in 2-5 years.
divesturner
Member
The story of AP-2 is not finished. A timeline was proposed, but it's not clear how all will unfold. There is a good case to hold off for a while and let others be the guinea pigs. I have a '16 AP-1 car with almost 5k miles and road trips planned. I will live a full life this year with the car and evaluate options when the dust settles on AP-2 and M3.
Just keep an eye on the blind spots. Those side facing sonar dots seem to be vestigial.
Just keep an eye on the blind spots. Those side facing sonar dots seem to be vestigial.
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Good plan, and then the buyers from 25K to 50K who purchased from 90 to 180 days ago would scream, why did they leave me out? This ends up being every Model S ever sold should have had the wiring harness configured so everybody could have AP2. And don't think it would end there. Every Roadster owner would want to be included in the SuperCharger charging scheme. Oh, wait, that actually happened! Tesla can't win in the "if only my group was included, everything would be super dandy," game. The only organization that can get away with that is the Postal Service selling Forever Stamps, and they don't make a profit. Actually, I don't know about that last statement but it sounded so cool in my head, I had to type it out.
Shumdit, you're quite a Tesla FANBOY defending their poor business practices. If you don't think that every recent Tesla owner within the last six months took a $10K financial drop in resale value from Tesla unloading their old inventory on them, I'll sell you my 2 month old Tesla S 90D with 2K miles for $5K less than I paid for it right now.
I didn't make a mistake, Tesla did. They chose to be shortsighted and treat ALL of their recent customers who bought AP 1.0 poorly. They can get away with that now because they don't have any real competition in the high end electric vehicle segment. However, it will come back to haunt them in a few years when there are good alternatives from other manufacturers.
I would have been happy if Tesla had only planned for buyers within the last 30 days. It would have shown that Tesla does care about their existing customers and not just their future ones. Extending further into the past than 30 days would have required Tesla to plan, which they chose not to do.
You show your complete lack of knowledge of software development with your comment that AP 1.0 will continue to get enhancements now that AP 2.0 is out with entirely new hardware. Anyone who actually knows about software development will immediately understand that AP 1.0 is already in maintenance mode.
I didn't make a mistake, Tesla did. They chose to be shortsighted and treat ALL of their recent customers who bought AP 1.0 poorly. They can get away with that now because they don't have any real competition in the high end electric vehicle segment. However, it will come back to haunt them in a few years when there are good alternatives from other manufacturers.
I would have been happy if Tesla had only planned for buyers within the last 30 days. It would have shown that Tesla does care about their existing customers and not just their future ones. Extending further into the past than 30 days would have required Tesla to plan, which they chose not to do.
You show your complete lack of knowledge of software development with your comment that AP 1.0 will continue to get enhancements now that AP 2.0 is out with entirely new hardware. Anyone who actually knows about software development will immediately understand that AP 1.0 is already in maintenance mode.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
With the slight exception that Elon mentioned specifically that AP 1.0 will continue to improve. AP 1.0 data is still coming in from AP 1.0 models.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
It happened to me with AP1.0 but I didn't act like I wouldn't be pissed -- I wasn't pissed -- and I've enjoyed the car every day since. So please don't tell me that we're all little kids who can't enjoy our one cookie because the kid next to us has two. He got exactly what he ordered and paid for. If AP2.0 was never announced, he'd be driving around town in the same car pleased as a pickle. This is all about attitude, You can have a good one or a lousy one. It's your choice and your choice alone.
And if it's about accelerated depreciation, as some will say in rebuttal, and it's not about the two cookies thing, well that's a risk going in. No one should be buying a car as an investment anyway so I have no sympathy for that. Investments are for investments - cars are for driving! The OP should be driving!
I'm just wondering: what's the current status?
I have been driving my 2013 Tesla Model S with no dual motors, no autopilot at all, etc. Still a great car.
Get over it and and upgrade every 3 years. That is what I am doing. Upgrading in December. Trading in the 3 year old car.
Guess, what.... in 2 years you are going to get a much more advanced car than the one I am getting in December 2016.
Get over it and and upgrade every 3 years. That is what I am doing. Upgrading in December. Trading in the 3 year old car.
Guess, what.... in 2 years you are going to get a much more advanced car than the one I am getting in December 2016.
Good plan, and then the buyers from 25K to 50K who purchased from 90 to 180 days ago would scream, why did they leave me out? This ends up being every Model S ever sold should have had the wiring harness configured so everybody could have AP2. And don't think it would end there. Every Roadster owner would want to be included in the SuperCharger charging scheme. Oh, wait, that actually happened! Tesla can't win in the "if only my group was included, everything would be super dandy," game. The only organization that can get away with that is the Postal Service selling Forever Stamps, and they don't make a profit. Actually, I don't know about that last statement but it sounded so cool in my head, I had to type it out.
To clarify, that was not my statement. I was quoting someone else. I feel Tesla needs to do nothing for AP1.0 customers other than continue to develop the software as I am sure they will
I made you an offer to put $10K in your pocket if you are right about your repeated claims of a $10K depreciation compared to the AP2.0 cars on a option adjusted cost basis. Take me up on it. And could you be right that it will haunt Tesla doing things this way? Sure, but as someone who has owned and dealt with Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Acura, Lexus, GM, Ford, Saab (remember them?) etc. let me tell you that if you think they do everything in the best interest of making the customer happy I am sure you have been ripped off far worse than what you accuse Tesla of doing to you in life because you are a rube. Let me look at the facts regarding software development and Tesla. I have been with Tesla for 3+ years through many changes in software. Do you remember when creep mode was added (on my car when I bought it BTW but I remember thinking how neat it was they added it over the air when in the research stage of buying)? Do you remember when they added the hill start assist function? Do you remember when they added location aware suspension settings? Do you remember when they added smart preconditioning? Do you remember when you could use the fob to roll down all of the windows? Do you remember when you could not locate superchargers on the Nav system? No, because all of these improvements/changes happened before you bought your car. Tesla keeps improving the cars already on the road and I have no reason to think things they learn from AP1.0 (and even AP2.0 cars) collecting data will be used to improve even your old outdated clunker. I offered you a serious bet, and one with serious money attached and instead you offer to sell me a 2 month old car with 2K miles for more than you paid for it (you get the $7500 tax credit but discount it $5K for me- Nice!) Even not considering it's A: Used, B: depreciated about $5K for time and mileage alone if it were an inventory/loaner, the $7500 credit makes it ridiculous to even consider such an offer. Also, I would never buy your car. I hear it has a bad whine coming from behind the steering wheel.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
All that I take away from this story is the idea that I might rather lease my prospective Model 3 than outright buy it.
BEV tech is evolving at such a pace that a lease/three-way-financing seems the way to go if you don't want to be stuck with "outdated" tech after only a few years.
BEV tech is evolving at such a pace that a lease/three-way-financing seems the way to go if you don't want to be stuck with "outdated" tech after only a few years.
"What you were asking Tesla to do is to come up with some sort of hybrid wiring harness that would only have been made for a limited number of cars and whose customers may not all have wanted to do the upgrade, especially after they found out the cost involved. That would have been very difficult and taken a lot of resources for a few hundred upgrades at most."
Schmuddy - 2016
The only opinion that matters around here
First, get the name right buddy
What I am saying is that let's say they wanted to make this "upgrade" retrofittable for a period of time. Let's say 30 days (surely not long enough but we gotta cut it off somewhere!) Now, remember this would only be for cars MADE in the last 30 days, so not inventory or loaner cars which were a significant # of the ones sold during the push for Q3. Those would have been made before that 30 day timeframe in all likelihood. So let's say 8000 cars just as a round #. Now, the guys who buy the inventory cars in the last 30 days (thinking they are getting the latest and greatest) are screwed so those people are still carrying pitchforks around the Tesla gates, but at least these 8000 special people are happy correct? And of course the guy who got his car 31 days ago? Well, he's angry too. He just posted "HAVE NOT MADE MY FIRST PAYMENT YET AND MY CAR IS WORTHLESS" on TMC but tell that whiner to suck it up. So back to the lucky 8000 since that's all that matters. Tesla spent a ton of time and money over the last few months to specially develop a hybrid harness that would work with both AP versions of sensors/cameras, and the computer for these lucky 8000. Yes, it's really quite an undertaking. So that will delay the Model 3 being released by a few months but screw those guys who have been waiting 18 months on their dream of owning a Tesla, were talking about YOU and your needs/wants. Now you have your unicorn Tesla and they announce AP2.0 and tell you if your car was made from vin XXX89 or up you can retrofit. The guy with XXX88? Sorry dude, you just crapped out. But again, back to YOU. You are doing cartwheels in the yard. You call your local SC. They don't know anything specific but they will see what they can find out and how soon the can get the parts for it for you. They are really busy doing updates to Model X's to get them just right since that family spent $150K and the front door flung open with the old style latches going around a turn causing the family dog to be launched into oncoming traffic. It's just a dog though right, and more importantly, it's not YOUR dog, so whatever. So you say "what will the cost be?" Surely it won't be more than maybe the $5K it costs on a new car plus maybe a grand for installation, even with Tesla's crazy labor costs. The SC rep says he's not sure, but he did install a few sets of parking sensors at $6900 per car and that was a $500 option and one guy who did the folding mirrors for about $2000 and that was a $500 option so maybe for this $5000 feature? Let's say $20000 should cover it, but it could be more since the bumpers could be different for the new long range sensors, and the B-pillars have to be replaced. Plus, of course you need to spend the $4000 to enable FDSC so about $24K. Lucky YOU! So I am going to say out of the 8000 Lucky Unicorn Tesla Hybrid Harness customers, what is the # handing over the AmEx to get that $24000 option installed so their very usable and satisfactory AP1.0 car can be a temporality non-functional (pending validation) AP2.0 car? Oh, no takers? Glad Tesla spent all that time and money making these special Unicorn cars. At least you will be happy to have the option to retrofit though right?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I'd sure like to hear what's happened from him. Hopefully, he's been too busy driving and enjoying his car then to read what's resulted from his initial posts.
mikes_fsd
Banned
I think that, unless you were coming from AP gen1 then you still get an awesome feature set with AP gen1.
After Autopilot was introduced it took almost 12 months to get the software for Autosteer, Lane Change, Self Park and Summon out.
If it takes 12 months from October 19th to get the software out, you are missing out on a lot of good AP gen1 driving (at least this is what I keep telling myself - took delivery end of September)
After Autopilot was introduced it took almost 12 months to get the software for Autosteer, Lane Change, Self Park and Summon out.
If it takes 12 months from October 19th to get the software out, you are missing out on a lot of good AP gen1 driving
(at least this is what I keep telling myself - took delivery end of September)Similar threads
