TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Recommended Charger Brand

Discussion in 'North America' started by Knight Rider, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Knight Rider

    Knight Rider Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    We're building a new retail store and are considering putting an electric charging station in. What charging stations do you prefer? We've been looking at the ChargePoint CT2021 station thus far. Do you mind paying a nominal fee (say $2 per hour) for a 7.2kw charging station?
     
  2. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,883
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    #2 Lloyd, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
    Why not an Eaton?

    Advantages:
    1. No charge point subscription
    2. 70 amps (16.8 kw) You'll attract your Tesla friends
    3. Credit card swipe is easy without off site billing and authorization
    4. Looks great with nice styling.
    5. You profit from your investment, not charge point

    disadvantage $9 per month for internal cellular system to authorize transactions

    2nd choice would be Clipper Creek CS-100

    photo12.jpg
     
  3. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    There are plenty that work just fine; for 7kW units I do like ChargePoint. As Lloyd notes, Eaton and Clipper Creek offer 16.8kW units, so I find those a lot more attractive. Clipper Creek is US-made, from a company that's been in the business a very long time, and built like a tank according to some EE friends.

    What you will find is that people that need it and don't have alternatives will pay it. Those that don't need it, won't--and that generally includes Tesla owners. I don't charge at 7kW; around town I have plenty of charge, and on a road trip that's too slow. I may plug in if it's free (I leave a sign on my dash saying it's OK to unplug me), but I won't pay $2 for electricity I don't need. TomSax did a detailed survey of EVSE charges and usage for Plug In America; basically, the more you charge the less it gets used, so your income stays very nearly the same across the price range surveyed (from 50 cents to $2/hour). In all cases, the income wasn't enough to pay for the EVSE and network service charges. So if you are hoping to make money by billing for electricity, I suspect you will be disappointed. You are more likely to make money by giving it away free and taking advantage of captive customers, customer and employee goodwill, potential advertising at the unit, etc. Those numbers are very difficult to quantify, but I suspect in most cases (not all) they will be more than what you will get from charging fees.

    That is not to say that billing for electricity is a bad idea. If you want to limit use for some reason (too many people trying to use a single unit; people tying it up for a good parking space rather than needing a charge, avoiding peak-time demand charges, etc) then slapping on a fee makes great sense. That's the best way to ensure it's available for the people that really need it.
     
  4. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    950
    Location:
    Fredrikstad, Norway
    The Clipper Creek CS-100 mentioned earlier is actually 19.2kW, not 16.8kW. Perfect for the Model S with twin chargers, but supposedly useless for Roadsters.
     
  5. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    I would echo the need for higher speed. I will pay for 70 amps but not lilely to pay for a 30 amp unit. Both the Eaton and Clipper Creek are good units.
     
  6. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    Correct, the CS-100 goes to 19.2, and I believe the Model S can take that rate with twin chargers. But then a Roadster will refuse the EVSE (even at a lower rate). If you set the EVSE at 16.8 then a Roadster can use it; hence my reason for assuming that's the top rate. :smile:
     
  7. Sparrow

    Sparrow S105/ Roadster 189

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    566
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    I have 3 ClipperCreek EVSEs now though only one is set for 70amps for my Roadster. ClipperCreek seems to make a very solid and relaible unit and made in the USA is a great feature too.
     
  8. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    My comments are similar to others:
    The building I work in has three 7.2* kW chargepoint stations. ( They are really about 6.2 kW because they are only 208volts 30 amps - not 240 volts )
    I never use them because:
    (a) I don't need to as my round trip commute is only about 35 miles and my car has over 200 mile range.
    (b) they charge $1 per hour

    I pay about 8.5 cents per kWh at home, so I won't pay anything over 53 cents per hour for optional charging.
    If they were in the ballpark of 53 cents per hour, I would occasionaly use them.
    Even if it was exactly 53 cents per hour, unless I ran down to the parking garage and unplugged the instant it finished - I would be paying more than home because I will keep getting charged after its done. Then I have to deal with the hassle of finding a new parking space.

    However, if I was on a 200+ mile road trip and there was a 16.8 kW charger somewhere on the midpoint of my journey, and there was something interesting to do while I waited for the charge nearby - I would happily pay more than $2 per hour to charge there.

    For a charge point to attract Tesla owners as customers it needs:
    a) location location location - along some route that we might be road trippin 200+ miles
    b) at least 16.8kW, we will drive right by 7.2kW unless we have no other choice
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,848
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Clipper Creek has been around the longest, and their chargers are rock-solid.
     
  10. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,883
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    My only issue with Clipper creek is their point of sale. You have to call a number, give them your credit info. Then they give you a code to unlock the EVSE for your use. Cumbersome for the user and not really secure. They are supposed to have an updated point of sale soon.

    Eaton is nice because all you have to do is choose how long you want to charge and swipe your card.

    Note that j1772 connectors are limited to 75 amps for UL certification do you may not be able to use the full amount of the CS100
     
  11. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
  12. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    #12 vfx, Sep 13, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
    Another vote for Clipper Creek. These things are "bulletproof" and would be the one that I would buy. They do have an old school sales dept. Not flashy, just engineering.

    Empirical evidence here in LA agree with Tom Saxton's data. EV owners here skip the pay-to-charge stations and go out of their way to make it home or to the next free site if possible.Monetizing charge sites has been problematic and it's tough to find examples of any successes in that realm. It works if you want to attract people to your business so it's best to consider them a marketing and branding tool for your business.
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,883
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    The CS-100 is rated at 80 amps, but the plug could only get UL certification to 75, thus the decrease. I notice their literature say UL listed, not certified.
     
  14. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Thanks. Why does the J1772 EVSEs continually do this? The 32A EVSEs could do 32A but the plug is rated at 30A..etc
     
  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,883
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but it was the government that mandated the 30 amp EVSE's? They wanted numbers rather than quality with better rates of charge. A mistake IMO

    I talked to the guys at ITT that built the higher amperage connector. They designed the connector to handle 80 amps, and should do so safely. The person I talked to was not sure why UL did not pass it at the full 80.
     
  16. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    For apartment communities, which brand do people recommend people ask the buildings to install? Assume they will be for a reserved parking spot.
    I was thinking about asking for either a ClipperCreek or the Eaton. Wouldn't need access control if the spot was reserved although that might keep people from stealing your spot while you were away.
     
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,038
    #17 stopcrazypp, May 26, 2013
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
    Don't have brands to recommend, but I would say avoid SPX Service Solutions (now called Bosch Automotive Service Solutions). They are the only brand I have heard reports of failing completely (from the Volt forums).

    The Leaf's AeroVironment unit has had some problems when the handle is wet.

    But the ClipperCreek and Eaton sound like a good bet. You don't have many options for high power (70A) EVSEs. Siemens VersiCharge does support 70A.

    GE's WattStation also has payment options/RFID access control if that is necessary (although it's not 70A):
    http://www.geindustrial.com/products/static/ecomagination-electric-vehicles/

    Leviton's Commercial charger also has it too:
    http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=37738&minisite=10251
     
  18. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,263
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    For your station to be meaningful, you should install something in the 70-80A range. The reason is very simple. As a store, customers will only visit your business for a limited period of time. If you were a hotel, a 30A station might suffice because a customer could charge all night if necessary. There is a 30A ChargePoint station at a health food store near me which only adds 16 miles per hour to my Model S — hardly worth bothering with during a 20-30 minute visit. An 80A charger would certainly be worth using. If you charge people to use of the charger, perhaps a rate slightly higher than the local electric rate would suffice. Most stations in the U.S. are free at the present time, business owners feeling that it's good for business.
     
  19. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Thanks. This would actually be for a personal parking space at an apartment complex. Trying to talk an apartment building into installing some EVSEs. 30A is not great but better than nothing. Would rather have 40A+.
     
  20. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,263
    Location:
    Burlington, Vermont
    Sorry, I was responding to the original post on this thread. 30A should be fine for a residential situation where you can charge overnight.
     

Share This Page