Reduced price Autopilot & FSD for existing owners announced March 1st

[Az_Rael]

With FSD, the expectation was always that the feature would be delivered to you much later.

The purchaser agreed to buy the DVD for $3,000 for delivery at a later date. That is a valid purchase agreement.

I have a valid purchase agreement with Tesla that I paid $3k and they will deliver FSD in the future. All agreements are two sided to be valid. At what point can I get out of the agreement if FSD isn't delivered? Folks who bought in 2016 haven't seen a single FSD feature for over two years. I haven't seen one in over 1 year. Tesla has to hold up their end too, and I doubt "infinity" is a valid time period for them to be able to deliver in.

 

[Thomas Edison]

With all the back and forth I just wanted to say the way I’ve looked at all of this since 2017: I didn’t buy EAP or FSD when I ordered my car. I knew that the price increase they stated I would have to pay after original purchase was subject to change (up or down). It’s now changed in my favor and I’m going to buy. I’m still taking a chance that some features I’m waiting on won’t happen before I sell or wreck the car beyond repair. I also know full well that the price can go down again (or up). The only problem I have with this is that you can’t get a refund whenever you want if you’ve yet to receive what you’ve paid for (FSD features). I’ve preordered things before only to find a lower price elsewhere weeks later (before my original order was fulfilled). So I canceled and reordered at the lower price. THIS is what should be the option here.

P.S.: Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but in the past hasn’t FSD said that feature timelines are unknown and you’re paying for the product basically knowing that you could never even have them before you get rid of your car?

 

[Darthbenji]

I don't claim to be the smartest person here but, based on the comments I see, that wouldn't be much of a brag.

Why don't you stick to the facts. Saying that other people know more about contract law than I do doesn't mean those people don't acknowledge that Tesla never guaranteed the future price would never be less. Prices change all the time, there is no law against that. You are acting as if Tesla implied they would never change the price for after purchase upgrades!

Nope. I’m acting as if they prompted purchases with an incentive. An incentive that was bs as it turns out. For a product that has yet to materialize. Repeatedly saying there is no law against price change tells me your issue isn’t a fairness issue. It’s a legal concepts one. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[steve in socal]

No, no money was lost. The purchaser agreed to buy the DVD for $3,000 for delivery at a later date. That is a valid purchase agreement. Only if the seller guaranteed the price would never be dropped before release would you have a valid point.

How many times do we need to go over this very basic point? How come no one wants to take responsibility for their purchase decisions these days? Probably because they grew up playing games where no one lost, everyone was a winner.

I've been an advocate against that kind of child education for decades now. It looks like the results are starting to come in. People raised like that think it's their God-given right to get the best deal available, even if they made the purchase contract at a different point in time. My advice to these people: never start trading stocks, options, or bonds. You will always think someone is ripping you off, every time you don't get the best price of the year. Don't get me wrong, at any point in time, you deserve the best price currently available. However, a purchase at a different time has different considerations that affect the supply and demand and prices do not stay the same over time. They could go up or down, that's natural.

Traditional auto dealerships break this rule all the time by selling the same car with the same options at wildly different prices on the same day. "Walter" might pay $36,000 while "Marie" who came in at the same time but was working with a different car salesman, had paid $38,775 for the exact same car! That's not what's going on here because prices are fungible over time. Nothing stays the same forever.

Agreed.

 

[TT97]

It's great to see everyone defend Tesla by saying ICE dealers/manufacturers do it the same way! I guess that is proof that in the end, Tesla is no different than Ford or GM.

I'm not mad, just disappointed.

 

[StealthP3D]

It's great to see everyone defend Tesla by saying ICE dealers/manufacturers do it the same way! I guess that is proof that in the end, Tesla is no different than Ford or GM.

If you pay attention a little better you will see that we are saying Tesla is NOT doing what ICE dealers do, which is to sell the same car on the same day to different people at wildly different prices. Sometimes by as much as $5,000 or more for the exact same car on the same day. While even that is legal, it's a rip-off.

What Tesla is doing is completely different, adjusting prices over time to account for supply/demand. That's normal. You pay what you pay on the day you buy it. You don't pay more because you are not a good negotiator or you are the "wrong" sex or race.

I'm not mad, just disappointed.

Yeah, I bought 1,000 shares of a stock once for $62/share. I was pretty disappointed because the next week they were selling the same stock for $52/share. I was disappointed that I hadn't waited but I wasn't mad because I had no idea they were going to provide weak guidance going forward. Yeah, I know buying a car is not buying a stock but I still wished I had waited for the better deal.

 

[C141medic]

This scenario does not compare. You say you ordered the widget and they don't deliver it. As in... You expected to receive it immediately after payment, and the manufacturer fell through on that immediate delivery.

With FSD, the expectation was always that the feature would be delivered to you much later.

I thought my response was pretty clear. If you don’t understand it I can’t explain it further to you.

 

[TT97]

If you pay attention a little better you will see that we are saying Tesla is NOT doing what ICE dealers do, which is to sell the same car on the same day to different people at wildly different prices. Sometimes by as much as $5,000 or more for the exact same car on the same day. While even that is legal, it's a rip-off.

So they are not offering free EAP or FSD to people who previously purchased in 2019 but not to people who bought the same car in 2018?

 

[chimerasaurus]

The official announcements are that people who have EAP will need to pay 2k for FSD. There are a few posts from people who said their "delivery person said all people who bought in 2019 would get it free". That contradicts the tweets from elon and the posts from tesla itself.

I bought last week. I asked 6 employees between two service centers here in Seattle last week. 2/6 indicated I'd get FSD for free, the remaining 4/6 gave a "maybe" or "no" answer. I got the sense anyone who wasn't going to be leaving the company in the next 2-4 months was saying no to me.

Sadly that's a major reason I had to return and am now waiting for my return refund to go repurchase.

 

[Thomas Edison]

I thought my response was pretty clear. If you don’t understand it I can’t explain it further to you.

What part of my statement do you disagree with ?

 

[u00mem9]

Fair warning, I plan to laugh even harder at anyone buying FSD for a “bargain” now than I do at someone paying $5k for it in late 2016. The difference is in 2016 there was a chance they would actually succeed...if you don’t know better now...3 years later(!), then I’ve got an FSD upgrade to sell you.

 

[Austindude]

Fair warning, I plan to laugh even harder at anyone buying FSD for a “bargain” now than I do at someone paying $5k for it in late 2016. The difference is in 2016 there was a chance they would actually succeed...if you don’t know better now...3 years later(!), then I’ve got an FSD upgrade to sell you.

Sorry I won't be buying an FSD update from you but at $2K I will probably buy from Tesla. I'll be doing that not because I think FSD will be available any time soon but rather because I believe Tesla will continue to improve EAP but based on the new hardware. I have owned a Model S with AP1 hardware and know that I can and most likely will be left behind without the new hardware. The $2K will likely get me the new hardware when it is available. Sure there is some risk, but the hardware has been rumored to be coming soon so I might take my chances.

 

[SageBrush]

I’ll need your address Brenda.

Just squint and give your screen a sharp slap.

 

[BrandonLive]

I don't have super-strong feelings on this debate, but I can explain why people are upset: something has changed...the price of FSD dropped by $1,000.

But it hasn’t, right? Wasn’t it $8,000 for these buyers, and isn’t it $8,000-$11,000 for new buyers?

Sure, the price reductions for existing owners is a bit weird, and probably confused things more than necessary, but it’s hardly worth fretting over.

So, let me pose the scenario a different way. If I pre-ordered an iPhone for $1,000 and then they dropped the price prior to selling it for $666 instead...everyone with a pre-order would probably cancel their order and pay the lower price. Right?

But that’s not a fair analogy. If you “cancelled” your pre-order today you’d be stuck buying it for more ($11k) as an add-on today.

 

[ngogas]

Save your money till you actually see fsd

 

[S75D]

I think it would be fair for EAP owners to be able to get the FSD for free (not for $ 2,000). In addition, Mr. Musk has often said that upgrading Autopilot equipment to make the car autonomous would be free. He said later, at the HW3 release, that this upgrade would be free only for owners who already own the FSD. By the way, with the price reduction that Tesla just announced the resale value of my car just took a hit. Owners who already have the FSD in addition to the free upgrade to HW3 should for example have an equivalent discount on their next purchase or on the maintenance of their vehicle. It would be a wise gesture on the part of Tesla towards the first owners who believed in the brand.

 

[MarkS22]

So, I had 4 referrals and earned "Priority Software Access" but also had FSD which now adds "Early Access Program." How does this work? Is that "Priority Software Access" worthless now? I know Early Access Program is different so I guess I'd get the new test features under NDA and then the final release sooner? Thoughts?

(I know this sounds trivial with all the pricing stuff happening but honestly, getting the latest features is more important to me than arguing over $1,000.)

 

[EV-lutioin]

Fair warning, I plan to laugh even harder at anyone buying FSD for a “bargain” now than I do at someone paying $5k for it in late 2016. The difference is in 2016 there was a chance they would actually succeed...if you don’t know better now...3 years later(!), then I’ve got an FSD upgrade to sell you.

No new hardware for you.

 

[EVDRVN]

I have a valid purchase agreement with Tesla that I paid $3k and they will deliver FSD in the future. All agreements are two sided to be valid. At what point can I get out of the agreement if FSD isn't delivered? Folks who bought in 2016 haven't seen a single FSD feature for over two years. I haven't seen one in over 1 year. Tesla has to hold up their end too, and I doubt "infinity" is a valid time period for them to be able to deliver in.

When Elon Tweets it's time- LOL

 

[C141medic]

What part of my statement do you disagree with ?

This:

I knew that the price increase they stated I would have to pay after original purchase was subject to change (up or down).

Thought the wording was that the price of the item would be higher if purchased at a later date?


Agree with this:

The only problem I have with this is that you can’t get a refund whenever you want if you’ve yet to receive what you’ve paid for (FSD features). I’ve preordered things before only to find a lower price elsewhere weeks later (before my original order was fulfilled). So I canceled and reordered at the lower price. THIS is what should be the option here.