Refresh Model S. Would you purchase again?

[Klyde99]

My 2023 model S is set to be delivered end of the month. After seeing how the demo I took home’s frunk wouldn’t open and the problems with quality and the decline with Tesla’s service I was wondering if new owners would overall recommend the model S. I’m a big fan of my model 3 but just looking for more room and range and with the price drop seemed like a good idea. I’ve never purchased a car this expensive before. Thanks for your thoughts!

I m having the same anxiety, got my first S plaid without any issues, now getting another one in stealth gray S plaid hopefully no issues at all, 2024 model ETA delivery in Jan

 

[tesltoronto]

I have been implementing software solutions since 1997. When I first started people were using green screen applications for their finance and other needs. No requirement for mouse. When Graphic User Interface came in, there was huge resistance and complaints. We have come a long way since then - but the complaints continue with every change. Today, manual entry in to the business applications is slowly disappearing- with robotic process automation, document/image scanning, etc.

Imagine if Tesla’s full self service driving is reality, we don’t need HUD, etc. About ambient lighting, have you tried the “Tool box” in Tesla. You can even have a romantic mood with a real looking fire place et all. I have really not found a good enough reason to move to a BMW or anything else, yet.

 

[aerodyne]

Imagine if Tesla’s full self service driving is reality, we don’t need HUD, etc.

About ambient lighting, have you tried the “Tool box” in Tesla.

I have really not found a good enough reason to move to a BMW or anything else, yet.

I want to believe, but Beta tried to kill me twice. I did not give it another chance.

Fireplace does not work in drive.

Agreed. No Supercharger network. EA is for Endless Anxiety.

 

[terranx]

Imagine if Tesla’s full self service driving is reality, we don’t need HUD, etc.

Sure, but im buying a car for what it can do today, not what it might be able to do 20 years from now

 

[tesltoronto]

Sure, but im buying a car for what it can do today, not what it might be able to do 20 years from now

I don’t believe it is going to take 20 years. But time will tell.

 

[CSFTN]

No, the point is Tesla will not do that. Tesla is run like software organization and like all big software orgs it runs forward, forward, forward. There is no incentive to fix old bugs. Its all about new stuff. I mentioned auto-wipers as perfect example because in Musk's biography by Ashlee Vance they were mentioned as a problematic item that they were fixing back in 2012! Here we sit almost 12 years later and guess what? They ain't working and they ain't getting fixed.

In my experience and recollection, auto wipers worked fine until they were incorporated into Autopilot 2.0 in 2016. Haven't worked since.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I have owned three Model S's, and currently have a 2016 with over 120K miles on it, still going strong with minimal battery degradation. We opted to go the Model X route this time, due to the cost savings over a new Model S. My wife qualifies for the $7500K rebate, so going with the plebeian (base) Model X with no options keeps us under the $80K tax limit, combining the $7500 + gas savings will make the car come in around $68,590, verses $71,090 (with gas savings) for the S which doesn't qualify for the $7500 rebate (which makes absolutely no Fingsense). The X & the S have been updated significantly from 2021 with Matrix headlights, acoustic noise reduction glass, more noise reduction insulation, etc.... Also transferring the FUSC sealed the deal for us.

We are getting a larger car with towing capability, and a higher seating position with adjustable shoulder belt mounting point(my petite 5'4" wife's #1 issue), the S is the only Tesla car without ASBMP. We lost some range (-57 miles to 348 vs 405) and some acceleration (3.8 vers 3.1, which is still faster than our 2016 S) and gained 26 SF of cargo space (91 vs 65 for the S) gained towing standard, more cupholders and regained FM, as we lost that on our 2016 S when we moved to the MCU 2.0.

We drive a lot more than 10K per year, but don't pay for supercharging or home charging (100% solar), so our savings are more than the model they use on their website and much closer to $12K for five years with our driving/charging patterns, driving the Model S price down to $62K and the Model X price down to $60,490 makes it close to a wash...@ $60.5 for the X and $62K for the S...

 

[stevej119]

I have owned three Model S's, and currently have a 2016 with over 120K miles on it, still going strong with minimal battery degradation. We opted to go the Model X route this time, due to the huge cost savings over a new Model S. My wife qualifies for the $7500K rebate, so going with the plebeian (base) Model X with no options keeps us under the $80K tax limit, combining the $7500 + gas savings will make the car come in around $68K, verses $78K for the S which doesn't qualify for the $7500 rebate (which makes absolutely no Fingsense). The X has been updated significantly from 2021 with Matrix headlights, acoustic noise reduction glass, more noise reduction insulation, etc.... Also transferring the FUSC sealed the deal for us.

We are getting a larger car with towing capability, and a higher seating position with adjustable shoulder belt mounting point(my petite 5'4" wife's #1 issue), the S is the only Tesla car without ASBMP.


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I’m a little confused by the math. Model S base is $74,990. Model X base is $79,900. Subtracting the $7,500 tax credit brings the X to $72,490 which is a difference of $2,500. The difference is actually a little smaller than that if you live in a state where you pay sales tax, because you still pay tax on the full $79,990 with the X.

Regardless of the pricing, though, it sounds like the X is a better fit for you.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I’m a little confused by the math. Model S base is $74,990. Model X base is $79,900. Subtracting the $7,500 tax credit brings the X to $72,490 which is a difference of $2,500. The difference is actually a little smaller than that if you live in a state where you pay sales tax, because you still pay tax on the full $79,990 with the X.

Regardless of the pricing, though, it sounds like the X is a better fit for you.

The delta is updated based on both incentives and gas savings (which you can adjust in their model), in my case I drive close to 20K per year and dont pay for charging at home or at Superchargers. Both the S and the X are incredibly great deals as I have paid about $30K more for each prior S.

I don't pay sales tax/property tax as a service disabled veteran, but that should be included in the model.

I updated my comments above to clarify more. The major reasons for X vs S in scenario is the wife was sick of getting cut across the neck by the seat belt and she wanted to sit higher (she is petite). I would have personally opted for the S again.

 

[iggy33]

Well, I pulled the trigger on an I5 M60 over MSP/LR last night, so my days here are numbered. Just want to give my parting 2 cents.

I think all the options are excellent Tesla, Lucid, EQS, Taycan, I5, I7, etc. I highly recommend for people that are considering any of these options to first decide how they will handle charging and range. Until, we know more about the SC network and how easy it will be to use for other vendors, if charging is a big deal, you almost have to go with Tesla. If it isn't, I highly recommend looking at the other options. As an example, the I5 is just so much more refined, comfortable, and Telsa's daily tech has fallen way behind. The ambient lighting, HUD, over parking view is excellent and it drives way smoother.

Again, not trashing Tesla at all. Just giving my two cents. Overall, the industry has stepped up to make some fantastic options for consumers.

 

[aerodyne]

You made me look.

M60 - Not bad, except for the price.

I would be afraid of getting spanked at stoplights by a soccer mom in a MYP that cost 2/3 as much.

Hope the service is better at BMW.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

You made me look.

M60 - Not bad, except for the price.

I would be afraid of getting spanked at stoplights by a soccer mom in a MYP that cost 2/3 as much.

Hope the service is better at BMW.

I looked at it too, I like everything about it except how cramped and inefficient it is. The S has 120 CF of interior volume and the I5 M60 only has 109 CF (classifying it as a compact car). The trunk is equally cramped with only 11 CF compared to the S's 25 CF (also no frunk). Also the AWD range (21" wheels) is pretty low at 240 miles opting for the 19" wheels would yield 256 miles vs 405 miles more in line with the S's 19" wheels. I do like the active roll bars, that would be a pretty cool option, but I couldn't find lateral acceleration numbers / Skidpad to see the benefit. I doubt it beats the 1.08g's that a PLAID delivers. It also strange that the Model X is more efficient than all the i5's with 103 MPGe vs the i5's 85 MPGe, giving even the X (classified as an SUV) a range advantage of over 108 miles verses the i5 (a compact car) in top config, with almost equal performance 3.5 0-60 vers 3.8 for the Base X. The i5 in the most efficient config gets 105 MPGe in the RWD variant with 19" wheels, increasing range to 295 (still out performed by Tesla's entry level LR 3 @ 358 miles / 131 MPGe and LR AWD Y @ 330 Miles / 122 MPGe with 0-60 dropping to 5.7 seconds, Tesla had never made a car this slow in any variant, even the X which is classified as an SUV can keep up with this i5. Top speed is limited to 120 MPH in the base I5 and 144 MPH with summer tires and 130 MPH with All Season tires in the fully loaded i5 M60, verses 155 in both the Base S and X and maxed out to 200 MPH in the top end PLAID S.

I not going to touch price, as it's more expensive in the base config than a base S or even a base X, put can be outperformed by pretty much any Tesla made in the last year or so, configuration dependent.

Summary a $42K Tesla can beat a $85K BMW... why would anyone buy this, especially the RWD base model. I bet the new 3 coming out will beat the performance of this car in top spec.

 

[WilliamG]

I looked at it too, I like everything about it except how cramped and inefficient it is. The S has 120 CF of interior volume and the I5 M60 only has 109 CF (classifying it as a compact car). The trunk is equally cramped with only 11 CF compared to the S's 25 CF (also no frunk). Also the AWD range (21" wheels) is pretty low at 240 miles opting for the 19" wheels would yield 256 miles vs 405 miles more in line with the S's 19" wheels. I do like the active roll bars, that would be a pretty cool option, but I couldn't find lateral acceleration numbers / Skidpad to see the benefit. I doubt it beats the 1.08g's that a PLAID delivers. It also strange that the Model X is more efficient than all the i5's with 103 MPGe vs the i5's 85 MPGe, giving even the X (classified as an SUV) a range advantage of over 108 miles verses the i5 (a compact car) in top config, with almost equal performance 3.5 0-60 vers 3.8 for the Base X. The i5 in the most efficient config gets 105 MPGe in the RWD variant with 19" wheels, increasing range to 295 (still out performed by Tesla's entry level LR 3 @ 358 miles / 131 MPGe and LR AWD Y @ 330 Miles / 122 MPGe with 0-60 dropping to 5.7 seconds, Tesla had never made a car this slow in any variant, even the X which is classified as an SUV can keep up with this i5. Top speed is limited to 120 MPH in the base I5 and 144 MPH with summer tires and 130 MPH with All Season tires in the fully loaded i5 M60, verses 155 in both the Base S and X and maxed out to 200 MPH in the top end PLAID S.

I not going to touch price, as it's more expensive in the base config than a base S or even a base X, put can be outperformed by pretty much any Tesla made in the last year or so, configuration dependent.

Summary a $42K Tesla can beat a $85K BMW... why would anyone buy this, especially the RWD base model. I bet the new 3 coming out will beat the performance of this car in top spec.

And the interior and comfort of the BMW will wipe the floor with any Tesla. Different strokes. Would I buy one? Not a chance. But I can certainly see why somebody else might.

 

[aerodyne]

I looked at it too, I like everything about it except how cramped and inefficient it is. The S has 120 CF of interior volume and the I5 M60 only has 109 CF

I bet the new 3 coming out will beat the performance of this car in top spec.

Bring on the Highland M3 Performance (Ludicrous?)

I hope it comes soon, they only way I could get one is if the MS resale value stops dropping like a rock.

OTOH, the Highland might make it drop more.

 

[unk45]

Not sure if the technology is a plus anymore, as other cars may have passed Tesla. BMW for example, has pretty much everything Tesla including (hands free highway assist, HUD, Parking overhead display, phone key, etc). I think really the Telsa has the SC network (and range) and power now.

There are three of those BMW's which char
ge at the same Shopping Center I frequent. I regularly hear their complaints, with horrible dealer support first on their list, coupled with a litany of minor gripes. They each have been positive about my 2021 Plaid S. I don't encourage the complaints, especially because they're becoming converted to BEV, which they're all enthused about.
As for "passing Tesla" in function, it's transparently obvious you've never actually compared BMW and Tesla in "...

(hands free highway assist, HUD, Parking overhead display, phone key, etc)

Until turn by turn nav works BMW will not approach Tesla EAP in that regard, much less FSD. HUD, 360 view, yes BMW has those and Tesla does not. We love to complain about FSD and so on. Then a taste fo competition makes it clear they have different value propositions. When BMW figures out how to make BEV's profitably we might need to revise our thinking.

For certain, it is a Good Thing for competitors to appear and a better thing for them to be successful. Thus far the competitors are not quite making it. Then there are the Chinese with some very attractive offerings, but thus far invisible to North American buyers.

 

[WilliamG]

Bring on the Highland M3 Performance (Ludicrous?)

I hope it comes soon, they only way I could get one is if the MS resale value stops dropping like a rock.

OTOH, the Highland might make it drop more.

Highland will make existing Model 3 drop like a rock. S is still a different class of car.

 

[unk45]

And the interior and comfort of the BMW will wipe the floor with any Tesla. Different strokes. Would I buy one? Not a chance. But I can certainly see why somebody else might.

Absolutely. As I just posted, I know some BMW BEV owners. They're all BMW fanatics, but now are beginning to see more other BEV's charging with them. Loyalties are being ever so slightly challenged.

 

[EXOTIC1]

Highland will make existing Model 3 drop like a rock. S is still a different class of car.

100% agree….

 

[dmurphy]

Your answer is why they sell cars like they do, they can get away with it and people buy smoke and mirrors. I am pointing out simple things like auto-wipers that haven't been fixed in 12 years. This is low hanging fruit, what does that tell you?

BMW at least does not pretend they will make car "better" with software updates. You bought what you bought.

When I bought my Model 3, one pedal driving wasn’t a thing.
Then, a software update, and it was.

Numerous items - many I take for granted now - have come in the form of software updates.

It’s easy to forget what a Big Deal that is by harping on one thing they (deliberately) haven’t perfected. The majority of the code running on the AP computer is years old and about to be replaced. The full neural-net code is in employee beta now. Zero point in trying to fix the auto wipers when the new code is weeks away.

 

[dsm363]

When I bought my Model 3, one pedal driving wasn’t a thing.
Then, a software update, and it was.

Numerous items - many I take for granted now - have come in the form of software updates.

It’s easy to forget what a Big Deal that is by harping on one thing they (deliberately) haven’t perfected. The majority of the code running on the AP computer is years old and about to be replaced. The full neural-net code is in employee beta now. Zero point in trying to fix the auto wipers when the new code is weeks away.

One pedal driving has been with Tesla since the Roadster so not sure what you mean about that Model 3. They might have made regen stronger with a software update on the Model 3 but it was still there.