Refresh OEM tires on 21'' (MPS4S) cold weather cracking

[hotsoup]

Could be unpopular opinion, but I think the MPS4S can be driven safely in cold weather as long as you drive for the conditions.

But I digress. Given the cold spell in the western USA, is everyone without a heated garage with MPS4S tires SOL right now as temps dip below 20F? I see the tire rack warnings about "do not drive below 20F" or else bad things happen but nothing straight from the manufacturer. What I'm looking for isn't anecdotes or reseller warnings, but specific language from Michelin directly with warnings about a specific temp that these tires can't be driven on.

 

[Mash]

I can't quote, but I read a training presentation about their performance tires for dealerships. CUP2 below 40F and 4S below 20F needs 24 hours of warming up before any pressure can be applied to them.

 

[tm1v2]

I can't quote, but I read a training presentation about their performance tires for dealerships. CUP2 below 40F and 4S below 20F needs 24 hours of warming up before any pressure can be applied to them.

Were they implying that, if they're mounted on wheels, they should be stored partially deflated if they might experience those temperatures?

Or just don't mount them onto a car without 24 hours of warming up?

Or just don't drive on them without 24 hours of warming up? (i.e. mounted on a parked car is okay)

 

[hotsoup]

So they have that info in obscure dealership training manuals but not on literally any Michelin documentation anywhere for this tire?

Does this also mean Porsche dealerships in the PNW are buying tire warmers for every car on their lot?

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I do not think this is an official statement but here is a video from Michelin. However, it does have the Michelin Man so it must be serious. I looked over their website - you would think Michelin would have a big disclaimer on the Pilot Sport page. They do have cold weather legal diclaimers on other Pilot tires but not the Sport 4S. Regardless, I switch to A/S or winter tires here when it gets below 45F on a regular basis.

This is what I have experienced with summer tires in cold weather - especially if moist or wet out. Tesla gave me a MYP (w/summer tires) the other day when it was well below 40F. Car did not like the weather - ground was moist and tires were hard as rocks. I think they did it because they did not pay attention rather than an endorsement of cold weather capabilities on the tires.

 

[Mash]

Were they implying that, if they're mounted on wheels, they should be stored partially deflated if they might experience those temperatures?

Or just don't mount them onto a car without 24 hours of warming up?

Or just don't drive on them without 24 hours of warming up? (i.e. mounted on a parked car is okay)

By memory it meant don't drive or mount if they cold. Don't remember anything about pressure at storage, but I personally deflate to 14psi for storage and I don't store performance tires in cold place.

 

[BrandonLive]

Well I had no choice partly because I was out of town when the first ~20F nights hit, so my car has been out in the driveway with the stock (21”) summer tires on. I haven’t moved it, and the temps only got to 20 or 19 very briefly. I sure hope no damage occurred to the tires due to this. I had looked before and Michelin’s website and manual/warranty paperwork had no mention of this, the Tire Rack warning is the only thing I’ve seen. Really hoping that doesn’t apply to these newer winter tire designs.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Well I had no choice partly because I was out of town when the first ~20F nights hit, so my car has been out in the driveway with the stock (21”) summer tires on. I haven’t moved it, and the temps only got to 20 or 19 very briefly. I sure hope no damage occurred to the tires due to this. I had looked before and Michelin’s website and manual/warranty paperwork had no mention of this, the Tire Rack warning is the only thing I’ve seen. Really hoping that doesn’t apply to these newer winter tire designs.

There is a lot of validity to certain compounds being damaged and losing grip when cold (again see hockey puck video above - there is a reason you freeze pucks before playing). However, to what extent and at what temperature I do not know. It would be nice if tire makers gave out more information - even if it were in the form of a warning.

 

[fsabek]

Guys I need your opinion on my tires issue. Just to recap I took delivery of a car whose owner could not pick up for some reason however it has 21 wheels and summer tires which in Chicago is a big deal. Anyways due to the craziness in the edd issue and not knowing when will I be able to get my original ordered car I agreed knowing that there is a 19 wheel winter package I can order. After my rear drive unit replacement ordeal fifty miles after taking delivery the SC promised I will get the winter wheels for free. However they have been on back order for more than two weeks. Now with the snow and below freezing weather it is a problem. I initially thought I will drive my wife’s x5 while there is snow and my tesla on clean roads. However after doing some online research I read the problem with summer tires is not only the snow and traction with snow. Actually under 45 degrees temps even in dry conditions summer tires just because of their rubber they are not safe to drive.
Which means till I get the back ordered wheels which god only knows how long that will be I will be paying for a leased car parked in the garage. I started looking into replacing the 21 summers with 21 ASs to get me by till the winter 19s come in.
I spoke to a friend of mine who has a car shop he said that is BS and that I can drive the summer tires in the cold as long as there is no snow. Another friend of mine who has a pre refresh model s with 21 wheels said that he had no problem with them on dry roads.
So what should I do. Keep driving in the cold on clean roads till I get the 19s or swap the 21 summers with 21 AS Right away then I will have three sets of tires summer and AS in 21 and winters in 19 for a three years leased car!!!!

 

[tm1v2]

Practically speaking you can drive the summer tires on cold dry roads. They might get hard and slippery, but summer street tires won't turn into blocks of ice just from the cold, take it easy like you're driving a crappy old car with worn out tires and you'll be fine.

Aso there's a chance that driving on them in freezing temps could actually permanently damage the tires. I've read conflicting things on how big a deal that is with modern summer street compounds.

I had summer tires for a couple days of freezing temps, snow, and ice once - on my RWD S - and didn't notice any huge change in them afterwards. But that could vary depending on the specific tire. They were horrible in the snow and ice as expected. On dry pavement they were fine, I took it real easy and had no issues on dry pavement.

 

[fsabek]

Thanks guys I really appreciate your feed back. I already reached out to the SC to see what can they do and worse comes to worse I will get the 21 as

 

[hotsoup]

I'm 100% sure it's fine. Lot of misinformation out there based on outdated anecdotes. Remember, Tire Rack has an incentive to get people to buy extra sets of tires. Michelin itself honestly has the most to lose and yet they don't specify the same warnings Tire Rack has. If the tires truly were at risk of getting damaged below a certain temp, you bet Michelina's legal team would make sure that language was loud and clear on warranty and owner's manuals.

 

[Midnightsun]

Nothing is going to happen to the tire. As mentioned, the compound is the issue with all brands of summer tires becoming rock hard and losing traction properties in cold weather. I like comparing using summer tires in winter conditions to wearing leather soled dress shoes and walking in the snow. Can it be done, sure but you better be darn careful and after the experience you will be hard pressed not to wear boots or stay home the next time.

 

[fsabek]

thanks guys
honestly you guys are the only ones that make sense. I asked same question on different threads in this club and was demonized for even thinking of possibly using the summers carefully only on dry roads till I get the winter package. I also spoke to two experienced people and even the discount tire guy who quoted me 1900 to get Michelin 21 AS and he said that driving the summers on dry roads in cold temps should not be a big deal.

 

[Mash]

Once you close or below crystallization temperature and you drive a car - in a first mile you going to break molecular structure of rubber strings here and there. Next ride from the cold - break more. The result of that is not visible cracks, but just a bad rubber. You will be wearing them out invisibly and very quickly. They will rupture much easier and they will lose traction. Especially performance tires would degrade immensely.

Can you do it though? Yes. You will have bad traction while you do it, you will destroy tires traction permanently, in case when you would need traction to stop or not to lose control you will have much higher chance of bad outcomes, but yes you can.

You also can drive a car without any tires.
Yes, you can!

If you move from one heated garage to another and don't stop in the process and it's not too cold, you might be fine on a dry road.

If you don't care about killing tires - drive slow and buy new ones once summer will come.

 

[fsabek]

Stopped by tesla SC they will try to get me 19 inch and all seasons from different SCs hopefully by next week. So keeping my fingers crossed my summers will hold up another week in the cold

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Stopped by tesla SC they will try to get me 19 inch and all seasons from different SCs hopefully by next week. So keeping my fingers crossed my summers will hold up another week in the cold

Ask the SC for uber credits if you are concerned. While waiting for a new tire from a flat they gave me $400 in credit to use while I waited a few days. Snow is coming in a few days.

 

[BrandonLive]

Stopped by tesla SC they will try to get me 19 inch and all seasons from different SCs hopefully by next week. So keeping my fingers crossed my summers will hold up another week in the cold

Interesting. My SC said they don’t have them and have no ETA. They also said it would be over $5k which surprised me - apparently they charge more for the Tempest/Cardenio wheels than if you get them in the out-of-stock winter package on Tesla.com. I didn’t ask about that pricing difference as I’m just going to stick with the winter set I ordered from Tire Rack - the guy there just told me they should arrive next week.