Replacing (upgrade) brake fluid

[ℬête Noire]

I've seen @MountainPass and others mention replacing their Model 3's brake fluid, since the stock fluid doesn't stand up to track-like use. This won't be a DIY project for me, I'm not a smart man but smart enough to know it's over my pay grade. However are there any gotchas or recommendations for going about having this done? Should 3rd party mechanics that are generally component but not particularly familiar w/Teslas be able to do this? Or is it really something I need to find a specialist for? It's one thing to purge the lines to clean but if you're doing a swap with a different fluid with very different performance characteristics you normally need to empty everything.

Any word if Tesla has recommendations on Dot 5 range fluids? Has anyone approached Tesla about doing a brake fluid swap outside of scheduled maintenance? What's their pricing?

 

[MountainPass]

We would always recommend that only licensed mechanics work on something as important as braking systems.

The procedure is no different from any other car, work your way from the furthest corner from the master cylinder and use more fluid than you think you need to ensure full flushing of the system. It helps to use a clear tube on the bleeder so you can see the color change as the new fluid makes its way through. Dot 4 fluid is more than capable enough. Castrol SRF is hands down the best high temp fluid.

 

[Feathermerchan]

You do need the spec for the brake fluid before you start in order to get compatible brake fluid.

 

[kbecks13]

I'm personally planning to use Motul 600, is a bit cheaper than Castrol SRF but still delivers a significant improvement.

 

[kbecks13]

You do need the spec for the brake fluid before you start in order to get compatible brake fluid.

Stock is DOT 3, you can definitely replace this with DOT 4 without problems.

 

[Glamisduner]

1st, great post!

I thought changing g brake fluid was diy, but there's always cycling that abs module that makes it tricky to switch fluids? I have never changed from dot 3 to 4 on a car, but i assume there is always a little crossover? Does the system have to be purged? My assumption is you just add dot 4 as you remove the dot3?

Plus you will need to change out dot4 more frequently than dot3 anyways. This is probably where your typical mechanic won't have the tool.

How do you cycle the abs module on a Tesla though? Other than by the engauging it? You would certainly want to cycle it when changing to dot 4.

Some dot3 fluids meet dot 4 specifications.

 

[Glamisduner]

1st, great post!

I thought changing g brake fluid was diy, but there's always cycling that abs module that makes it tricky to switch fluids? I have never changed from dot 3 to 4 on a car, but i assume there is always a little crossover? Does the system have to be purged? My assumption is you just add dot 4 as you remove the dot3?

Plus you will need to change out dot4 more frequently than dot3 anyways. This is probably where your typical mechanic won't have the tool.

How do you cycle the abs module on a Tesla though? Other than by the engauging it? You would certainly want to cycle it when changing to dot 4.

Some dot3 fluids meet dot 4 specifications.

Do I not need to cycle the abs module when changing to dot 4 or 5?

 

[stayfocus18]

anyone actually done a drain/fill yet?

 

[Lucky13]

Do I not need to cycle the abs module when changing to dot 4 or 5?

I asked a tech at Tesla SC and he said they have a machine that they hook up and it sucks the fluid out of the abs module and then the refill it. Tech said its not a big deal, if I bled them properly and not to worry about the module.

Four track days later the car has performed just fine and abs seems to work as intended. Also MPP has beat the snot out of their car with no issues and many others for that matter.

TLDR Just bleed it like any other car and don't worry about the ABS. My two cents Obviously.

 

[wenkan]

I asked a tech at Tesla SC and he said they have a machine that they hook up and it sucks the fluid out of the abs module and then the refill it. Tech said its not a big deal, if I bled them properly and not to worry about the module.

Four track days later the car has performed just fine and abs seems to work as intended. Also MPP has beat the snot out of their car with no issues and many others for that matter.

TLDR Just bleed it like any other car and don't worry about the ABS. My two cents Obviously.

So you can just bring you aftermarket parts and ask the SC to do the labor for you?

 

[beastmode13]

So you can just bring you aftermarket parts and ask the SC to do the labor for you?

No. This applys to most if not all manufactures/dealer service center, not just Tesla.

 

[SammichLover]

I've been waiting on Motive to come out with a Model 3 specific adaptor. This reminds to ping them again with an email.

The problem with their universal adaptor is that the understand of the gutter below the windshield is too close to allow the adaptor to center correctly. I'm about >.< close to just taking a Dremel to it to remove the "excess" material that is in the way. I could pull stuff apart to move it but it'd involve removing at least the frunk assembly and then figuring out what clips hold that gutter piece in place, to pop it out.

 

[Glamisduner]

I asked a tech at Tesla SC and he said they have a machine that they hook up and it sucks the fluid out of the abs module and then the refill it. Tech said its not a big deal, if I bled them properly and not to worry about the module.

Four track days later the car has performed just fine and abs seems to work as intended. Also MPP has beat the snot out of their car with no issues and many others for that matter.

TLDR Just bleed it like any other car and don't worry about the ABS. My two cents Obviously.

The ABS module holds fluid so if your switching to silicon Dot5, you would be mixing fluids. On most cars you need a computer plugged in via OBD2 to cycle the ABS while changing fluid. Or you can change all of the fluid then find a safe place to slam on the brakes to release the fluid. Then do a second change on all of the fluid (I have never done this). So we would need to know a manual way to suck the fluid out of the ABS module when changing brake fluid, but otherwise it sounds like we are stuck with the current fluid or maybe ok switching to dot4? If your simply changing fluid it's fine to not cycle / drain and fill the ABS module, but I believe it's a requirement when changing brake fluid specs. maybe ok with 5.1 to not cycle?

 

[Lucky13]

The ABS module holds fluid so if your switching to silicon Dot5, you would be mixing fluids. On most cars you need a computer plugged in via OBD2 to cycle the ABS while changing fluid. Or you can change all of the fluid then find a safe place to slam on the brakes to release the fluid. Then do a second change on all of the fluid (I have never done this). So we would need to know a manual way to suck the fluid out of the ABS module when changing brake fluid, but otherwise it sounds like we are stuck with the current fluid or maybe ok switching to dot4? If your simply changing fluid it's fine to not cycle / drain and fill the ABS module, but I believe it's a requirement when changing brake fluid specs. maybe ok with 5.1 to not cycle?

For what it's worth I asked the tech if they would bleed the system and use fluid I provide and he said they could not.

 

[SammichLover]

The ABS module holds fluid so if your switching to silicon Dot5, you would be mixing fluids.

That's pretty much Crazy Town AFAIK, even with the most primitive hydraulic brake systems. The level of flush you need to do that, rather than using the 3 & 4 compatible DOT 5.1, is more or less "first flush out the entire system, including calipers, with high proof alcohol and pray you get it all". Plus I seem to recall you need to watch how the silicon stuff reacts with your seals.

Anyway, I just heard back from Motive. If I understand their support email correctly, and I've replied to get this confirmed, they have modified their "Part Number 1118: BLACK LABEL GM / LATE MUSTANG 3-TAB CAP" adaptor kit to also work with the Model 3. You have to make sure you get new stock direct from them, though. So hopefully within a couple weeks I'm going to do a pressure bleed, which is relatively easy as you can do it solo. You just have to make sure to prep with protective blanketing so you don't get any accidental splatter on any finished surfaces.

 

[Glamisduner]

That's pretty much Crazy Town AFAIK, even with the most primitive hydraulic brake systems. The level of flush you need to do that, rather than using the 3 & 4 compatible DOT 5.1, is more or less "first flush out the entire system, including calipers, with high proof alcohol and pray you get it all". Plus I seem to recall you need to watch how the silicon stuff reacts with your seals.

Anyway, I just heard back from Motive. If I understand their support email correctly, and I've replied to get this confirmed, they have modified their "Part Number 1118: BLACK LABEL GM / LATE MUSTANG 3-TAB CAP" adaptor kit to also work with the Model 3. You have to make sure you get new stock direct from them, though. So hopefully within a couple weeks I'm going to do a pressure bleed, which is relatively easy as you can do it solo. You just have to make sure to prep with protective blanketing so you don't get any accidental splatter on any finished surfaces.

Yea you don't want to use dot5 anyways, but if you want to get all the fluid like a professional shop you gotta cycle the ABS. I learned this when buying used cars that had Russian Imperial Stout for brake fluid. I would go through like 3-4 large bottles of brake fluid then a week later it looked like coffee again.

if you can cycle the ABS module you can get all of the dirty fluid out.

You can make your own brake bleeder with a plastic bottle and a piece of tubing. Always easier with 2 people though.

 

[SammichLover]

Yea you don't want to use dot5 anyways, but if you want to get all the fluid like a professional shop you gotta cycle the ABS. I learned this when buying used cars that had Russian Imperial Stout for brake fluid. I would go through like 3-4 large bottles of brake fluid then a week later it looked like coffee again.

if you can cycle the ABS module you can get all of the dirty fluid out.

Castrol SRF comes in a 1L bottle. I'm hoping I've got enough to do a partial bleed, put the wheels all on, take it out to engage the ABS, then do a full bleed to at least dilute what's left in the ABS apparatus, then go back and finish the flush on all 4 calipers and really run them out. If I don't I don't and it'll just get a lot better the next time I flush, in a year or whatever. The stock fluid won't really ruin the SRF but the contamination will make it a lot less effective at what it is able to do, which is maintain its boiling point in spite of humidity seeping into the hydraulic system.

No way I'm going to try gravity drain it to simulate what Tesla is doing (there are some good vacuum systems out there is my understanding, where as I'll be pushing). Sure as hell I'll somehow end up getting bubbles in there and that would be A Very Bad Time trying to purge them out of the system.

 

[Glamisduner]

Castrol SRF comes in a 1L bottle. I'm hoping I've got enough to do a partial bleed, put the wheels all on, take it out to engage the ABS, then do a full bleed to at least dilute what's left in the ABS apparatus, then go back and finish the flush on all 4 calipers and really run them out. If I don't I don't and it'll just get a lot better the next time I flush, in a year or whatever. The stock fluid won't really ruin the SRF but it'll make it a lot less effective at what it is able to do, which is maintain its boiling point in spite of humidity seeping into the hydraulic system.

No way I'm going to try gravity drain it to simulate what Tesla is doing (there are some good vacuum system out there is my understanding). Sure as hell I'll somehow end up getting bubbles in there and that would be A Very Bad Time trying to purge them out of the system.

with the bottle I made, you do have to prime and purge to get each rotor started, but after that you can just pump, you wouldn't get bubbles because once the air is out of the tubing it could only suck-back fluid. I don't like vacuum systems, I have never had good luck with them. Positive pressure systems probably work allot better, but some people say they expose the fluid to unnecessary air and moisture. Other people pout fluid into the master cylinder and simply use the pressure to push small amounts at a time through the car, but then you run the risk of pushing in air. I had pretty good luck with the bottle and tube last time I used it. It took allot more than 1L of fluid to do the car though.

Is the bleed pattern rear then front on the 3? It was front then rear on the volt which seems unusual.
The ABS system was in the rear in the volt.

Also this is a better video:

 

[SammichLover]

It took allot more than 1L of fluid to do the car though.

I guess I'll order a 2nd bottle to have on hand just in case, then. In the past (which has admittedly been quite some time) I've only used more than a little over 1/2L. Just enough to have to open a second 500ml bottle, which is then trash unless you use it really soon.

The toughest part here is the factory fluid is in good shape. It isn't dirty or anything so I expect it'll be tough to know when the flush is done. I guess I could just go until it cooks once, good chance that'll discolor it some.

P.S. The Porsche HPDE vehicle inspection checklist has a "flush in the last 6 month" on its requirement checklist. I might be able to skirt that since the vehicle is barely more than 6 months old but I'm not sure yet.

 

[Glamisduner]

I guess I'll order a 2nd bottle to have on hand just in case, then. In the past (which has admittedly been quite some time) I've only used more than a little over 1/2L. Just enough to have to open a second 500ml bottle, which is then trash unless you use it really soon.

The toughest part here is the factory fluid is in good shape. It isn't dirty or anything so I expect it'll be tough to know when the flush is done. I guess I could just go until it cooks once, good chance that'll discolor it some.

P.S. The Porsche HPDE vehicle inspection checklist has a "flush in the last 6 month" on its requirement checklist. I might be able to skirt that since the vehicle is barely more than 6 months old but I'm not sure yet.

yea it's much easier to tell when the brake fluid is dirty . You might only need a bottle, but it's nice to have a second just in case (return it if you don't need it).

Is the ABS system in the front or the rear on the 3? If it's in the rear, you would bleed the front first. My guess is that it's in the front though since thats where most stuff seems to be.