Roadster's Future

[pharma5]

The guy that took over for Joost is a Model S guy through and through.

This doesn't have to be a bad thing.

I imagine a small, dedicated skunkworks team handed an empty Roadster glider and tasked with filling it sucessfully with as much of the Model S (or Gen III) parts as possible in order to make it go... seems like a way to test components, simplify future support / parts supply chain, and hit Roadster improvements all at the same time.:biggrin: Just sayin'.

 

[ipdamages]

You probably won't like the price target, but know that there is definitely a bottom to the market that many people (including myself) would consider buying just for the collectible aspect. Unless they crush them, the Roadsters won't be going away.

I'm currently looking at buying another Roadster - this one for my wife. We are nearing the point that a Roadster is an alternative to the Volt and Leaf. As some say, at the price, there is a market for anything. I sense that we are nearing that point with the Roadster.

 

[vfx]

...

I imagine a small, dedicated skunkworks team handed an empty Roadster glider ...

Joost was the skunkworks.

 

[pharma5]

Joost was the skunkworks.

Did Joost ruffle too many feathers there - too much too soon?

I would think there are Roadster advocates with longer tenure (even with substantial turnover), but it's hard to tell anything from over on this coast. Some of you got to meet Joost, and get to rub elbows with people in Menlo... what have you all seen and heard?

And with TESLIVE coming up, I would think one of the best functions of such a conference is to get a little guidance on matters like the vision on the Roadster's future, since it's obviously not going to be high on TSLA's list of daily talking points with all the other stuff they need to do in the next 12 months.

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We are nearing the point that a Roadster is an alternative to the Volt and Leaf.

This is a pretty compelling argument even at ~$55k on lightly used Roadsters, as long as the car is adequately supported going forward. When the Leaf or Volt is in the shop, I don't know what the loaner looks like... with the Roadster, you get a Model S (!) loaner, or perhaps another Roadster.

I would also think no one is buying a Lotus in the U.S. right now unless they really, really, want the petrol...

 

[ipdamages]

And with TESLIVE coming up, I would think one of the best functions of such a conference is to get a little guidance on matters like the vision on the Roadster's future, since it's obviously not going to be high on TSLA's list of daily talking points with all the other stuff they need to do in the next 12 months.

This is a pretty compelling argument even at ~$55k on lightly used Roadsters, as long as the car is adequately supported going forward. When the Leaf or Volt is in the shop, I don't know what the loaner looks like... with the Roadster, you get a Model S (!) loaner, or perhaps another Roadster.

I also look forward to hearing what is said at Teslive about the Roadster's future. Especially the pack/motor/? upgrade.

At these prices the i3 will also lose sales, methinks.

 

[pharma5]

At these prices the i3 will also lose sales, methinks.

Agree.

A bit OT, but upon very cursory check I don't see how they expect to sell i3 at ~$40k(?) with a range of 99 miles(?), whenever it's finally actually available:
http://www.product-reviews.net/2013/06/13/positive-bmw-i3-sales-without-price-and-release-date/

Can't even compare that to a buy-it-now of $55k on a Roadster. No contest!

(And if the $ are just too high, a Leaf or Volt is better...).

 

[TEG]

There will amost certainly be a session to discuss this topic at TESLIVE.
Yes, I have heard that ongoing support is likely to end up being more in the "grassroots" category than "official factory".
Let's hope that the aftermarket develops an interest in the small remaining Roadster community.

 

[ipdamages]

There will amost certainly be a session to discuss this topic at TESLIVE.
Yes, I have heard that ongoing support is likely to end up being more in the "grassroots" category than "official factory".
Let's hope that the aftermarket develops an interest in the small remaining Roadster community.

That's an interesting angle and probably explains to some extent the seemingly greater amount of collaboration and outreach between Tesla Motors and aftermarket companies like Teslaccessories and Al & Ed's.

Of course, as others have said, we can't expect companies to do things that aren't profitable for them, and aftermarket companies don't have as much to lose as Tesla does if we all get left in the lurch like Fisker owners.

I don't really expect much altruism or money lost on Roadster projects and support out of a sense of loyalty to us, but as a business decision leaving us out to dry, with our cars falling precipitously in value without support, would be unwise. A big drain on shareholder value. And they know that.

 

[TEG]

...I would think there are Roadster advocates with longer tenure (even with substantial turnover), but it's hard to tell anything from over on this coast. Some of you got to meet Joost, and get to rub elbows with people in Menlo... what have you all seen and heard?
...

Even if there are people with the knowledge and interest, if they are so busy working on Model S programs, they may not have the time to work on old Roadster projects.

 

[brianman]

Of course, as others have said, we can't expect companies to do things that aren't profitable for them, and aftermarket companies don't have as much to lose as Tesla does if we all get left in the lurch like Fisker owners.

In that vein, sometimes it can be profitable for an aftermarket supplier to offer modifications whereas "official OEM" modifications are legally and/or politically prohibitively expensive.

 

[pharma5]

While Tesla is busy fighting NADA and local franchise laws, they should be mindful of some of the arguments supporting those laws, specifically that a franchise ensures business / service continuity to support local car owners through the maladies of ownership, even after manufacturers disappear from an area or fold entirely.

If TSLA were to bail on its first model (or really any model), it would play right into the view that dealer franchises are needed 'to protect the consumer'. I don't think any of us want that...:tongue:

Altruism aside, I think this is the pragmatic reason for continued support on fundamental stuff for years to come (even when extended warranties expire).

I remember a while back when folks would speculate whether Toyota or Mercedes dealers might become involved for service given the partnerships for Tesla-powered vehicles... I think things have moved away from that with TSLA's rollout and increased focus on best in class service, but it may be worth tracking as things evolve with partner companies.

 

[Doug_G]

whereas "official OEM" modifications are legally and/or politically prohibitively expensive.

In Ontario, if you do any non-OEM performance modifications to your car, your insurance company will drop you like a hot potato (and not just the vehicle - they'll cancel all of your insurance). If you get into an accident with a modified car your insurance is invalid. If you want to properly insure such a vehicle, you have to go to "facilities insurance", which costs thousands.

So practically speaking, aftermarket performance mods are prohibitively expensive here.

 

[dhrivnak]

If Tesla is moving away from supporting the Roadster then we need a way to buy the shop manual (or DVD). I do not care so much for upgrades as keeping what i have running in top shape.

 

[bonnie]

Outside of this thread, I've heard absolutely nothing that would lead me to believe that Tesla will not continue to support the Roadster. What I have seen (since Joost has left) is a decrease in after-market upgrades. But I have found Tesla Service to be extremely responsive to me on some recent minor issues, ready to troubleshoot.

I'm not worried about long term support.

 

[Jackyche]

I too doubt Tesla would discontinue support. It would look really bad.

All we're seeing is Tesla needing to get rid of quite a few used niche cars by dropping the prices significantly. Supply and demand thing right?

Arent dealer/manufacturers required by law to have parts and service for 10 years?

 

[ipdamages]

In Ontario, if you do any non-OEM performance modifications to your car, your insurance company will drop you like a hot potato (and not just the vehicle - they'll cancel all of your insurance). If you get into an accident with a modified car your insurance is invalid. If you want to properly insure such a vehicle, you have to go to "facilities insurance", which costs thousands.

So practically speaking, aftermarket performance mods are prohibitively expensive here.

Wow, that's a strong incentive not to do that!

As regards performance mods, I don't really expect that to happen. Maybe a turbo aftermarket option.

But in all seriousity, I think that aftermarket offerings would be things like rims, body parts (CF), and interior options - like Elie did on my car. In the past Tesla began producing and doing the mods he created, like double-DIN and CF spoiler/air ducts/dash/diffuser, just as Tesla is about to begin selling its CCI for the Model S. When Elie did my 2.5 front end he had to pay more for the parts than other shops because Tesla wouldn't "authorize" him. Now the relationship between the companies is much better.

All that said, since the clean sweep of LA service about two years ago I have seen LA service's tenor, attitude, and behavior improve dramatically - to match the excellent service others had received. Bravo, Vince and co!

I don't really see aftermarket performance mods, though I did see that inquiry on an F1-based air diffuser that would potentially increase performance (and that went nowhere).

Dave again raises the reasonable question about the manual. I would be interested to hear Elon's response to that question at Teslive. Are there trade secrets in there? Probly.

 

[dsm363]

Supporting the Roadster might not be a big profit center but it probably wouldn't break the bank either. Tesla won't go under from the cost of supporting the Roadster.

 

[brianman]

So practically speaking, aftermarket performance mods are prohibitively expensive here.

Prohibitively expensive for the buyer, not the seller. I was speaking to the opposite. Wasn't there discussion about how some suspension aftermarket work would be too expensive for Tesla to do, but could be done aftermarket for much cheaper? I thought it was in lola...'s thread.

 

[Doug_G]

Prohibitively expensive for the buyer, not the seller. I was speaking to the opposite.

The difference is moot, since if it's expensive for the seller, it will also be expensive for the buyer.

 

[bart513]

In terms of people choosing the CPO Roadster versus the BMW i3, a potential advantage of the BMW is the faster charging DC stations that they are proposing and who knows what the warranty will be. Personally we know that you can't compare the Roadster to the i3 as there is NO contest. I'm hoping that there will be some good aftermarket items. Personally I'd love to upgrade my suspension but the 6K that Tesla is asking is way too much!