What an amazing terrifying world, you can see the missiles coming down
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
What an amazing terrifying world, you can see the missiles coming down
It seems so surreal. I must have walked along where that first video was shot hundreds of times. There were some nice restaurants and clubs right on the water there. Yacht club is pretty close too. The command center is less than 100m from an apartment I rented for my mom for months. It was a great place to spend the summer. If you were in the military, it was one of the places you wanted to get stationed. Sort of like being in San Diego if in the US Navy.
Sevastopol was a closed city for a long time. I was probably one of the earlier foreigners to visit when it finally opened back up. It was a very interesting place and part of it makes me sad to see it under attack but somebody has to take out the Russians. I am glad that Ukraine can finally hit back. Maybe someday I can get my apartment back that the bastards stole from me.
The Russians have been launching from three platforms: strategic bombers, ships at sea, and a few land launchers. The land based Iskanders are the toughest to intercept, but the production rate on those is small and all indications are Russia has very few. They have recently adapted MiG-31 fighters to carry the missiles, but while there are more MiGs than strategic bombers, the MiGs have also been airborne 24/7 with long range air to air missiles to deny the air to Ukraine.
Their air launch cruise missile capability has limits.
The sea launch capability has the fewest limits. Soviet/Russian naval doctrine is very missile centric. If the Russians are denied the western Black Sea, that will limit their ability to launch cruise missiles at Ukraine from naval platforms. With Ukrainian sea drone operating like modern day u-boats, it will become increasingly difficult for the Black Sea Fleet to operate at all.
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UPDATE 4-Polish president says Ukrainian grain dispute won't significantly affect relations
Reuters
Fri, September 22, 2023 at 12:01 PM GMT+2·2 min read
(Updating to change headline)
WARSAW, Sept 22 (Reuters) - A dispute between Poland and Ukraine over grain imports will not significantly affect the countries' good bilateral relations, the Polish president said on Friday, as he moved to ease tensions over the issue. […]
"I have no doubt that the dispute over the supply of grain from Ukraine to the Polish market is an absolute fragment of the entire Polish-Ukrainian relations," President Andrzej Duda told a business conference.
"I don't believe that it can have a significant impact on them, so we need to solve this matter between us." […]
"There's absolutely no contradiction here." Rau wrote. "Supporting Ukraine against Russia's invasion and protecting our citizens and safeguarding them against unfair economic competition — both serve Poland's interest simultaneously." [...
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UPDATE 7-Polish PM tells Ukraine's Zelenskiy 'never to insult Poles again'
Poland's prime minister told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Friday not to "insult" Poles, maintaining harsh rhetoric towards Kyiv after the Polish president had sought to defuse a simmering row over grain imports. Poland decided last week to extend a ban on Ukrainian grain imports...finance.yahoo.com
I'm not surprised. Leaders of countries that are otherwise friendly can have disputes over one issue, but otherwise work together on others. 20 years ago or so there was a dispute between the US and Canada over management of fishing resources off the Pacific coast. It was a hot issue in the Seattle area where a lot of fishermen are based who fish the waters north of Seattle.
There were some harsh rhetoric back and forth and both national governments were involved, but through it all the US and Canada remained allies and the alliance is still strong today.
I don't know why the US would be dismantling them. Typically the US takes old weapons systems and updates them to the most current standard.
I can't find anything on exactly how many ATACMS are in the US arsenal, but I have seen speculation that the US doesn't have many of them. With the rest of US capabilities, the ATACMS was not very necessary. All current production of missiles is going to export orders which makes sense for armies which have less air support than the US has.
Joe Biden also said that when the US provides ATACMS, there will be no announcement and the world will know they have been transferred when the first reports of their use by Ukraine are reported. They may be in transit right now.
Ukraine probably doesn't want Russia to know they have them until they have taken out the Kerch Bridge.
(refers to a PM post)
I had a message deleted saying to rewrite. You know we have a very good thread that we mostly self moderate with the exception of a few trolls that we end up ignoring.
I had a message deleted saying to rewrite. You know we have a very good thread that we mostly self moderate with the exception of a few trolls that we end up ignoring.
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Ukraine has developed the ability to touch Russians on their own soil. So far, most of the utilization (apart from some stuff in Moscow) has been for military targets. Going tit for tat turning off the power in key Russian cities every time Moscow chooses to target Ukrainian civilian infrastructure might just change the calculus for Moscow. Sure, you can damage our civilian infrastructure but you are far more vulnerable to the very same attacks; do you really want to continue this?
I think the atacms cluster bomblets are the preferred munition. It's the tool they need to remove air assets from ukraine. Those munitions would make most of the airfields in occupied crimea untenable Especially for helicopters. Some areas of Crimea would be out of range today but should, over time.
Also they would be devastating in clearing fortifications prior to attacks, 10 of those would clear a tree line
Also they would be devastating in clearing fortifications prior to attacks, 10 of those would clear a tree line
It wasn’t me, but looking back at your posting history I see that a post was removed by another mod (along with 15 posts by others) because it was part of a long-winding discussion that had zero relevance to this thread, aka off-topic. The message sent by a mod when deleting a post is anonymous by default. Those messages are also not meant to lead to a discussion. It’s just a post, not a limb.
I see that another removed post contained this sentence: ‘I'm getting slightly T'd off with dumb moderation on this thread, by people who evidently don't know a great deal of relevance.’ Did you honestly expect such a post to stay up?
The simple message to all: keep it on topic. And don’t take the removal of a post too personal.
I like seeing Ukraine's tech-tree continue to grow. Courtesy of UK-tech now russia can't even have a black sea port at Sevastopol 
First abrams will be in ukraine next week. It's disappointing how little MBT we've all provided--like kind of laughably small numbers, especially from a country like us. We have so much extra kit sitting around, and given that russia is clearly suiciding themselves and their own military stock, the only other adversary of the US after this is done will be China. Not to say russia is going away but there can no longer be any doubt that in an all out conventional war between nato and russia it would be stupendously unsuccessful for russia.
What I'm getting at is it's not like we can't spare a little more. NATO has been preparing for a prize fight because in a news conference earlier in the year the opponent talked a big game, but then fight night comes and it turns out the other guy has just been drinking vodka and sleeping in.
First abrams will be in ukraine next week. It's disappointing how little MBT we've all provided--like kind of laughably small numbers, especially from a country like us. We have so much extra kit sitting around, and given that russia is clearly suiciding themselves and their own military stock, the only other adversary of the US after this is done will be China. Not to say russia is going away but there can no longer be any doubt that in an all out conventional war between nato and russia it would be stupendously unsuccessful for russia.
What I'm getting at is it's not like we can't spare a little more. NATO has been preparing for a prize fight because in a news conference earlier in the year the opponent talked a big game, but then fight night comes and it turns out the other guy has just been drinking vodka and sleeping in.
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An interview with one of the primary people at ISW
In a recent interview with one of the higher ups in the Ukraine military he made the point that Ukraine doesn't need lots of tanks. This is not that kind of war. They need more missiles, more artillery, and the tools for the infantry carrying out most of the fight.
If the US had given Ukraine 500 Abrams, it wouldn't have made much difference. An Abrams with a blown off track in the middle of a minefield is just as useful as a T-64 with a blown off track in the middle of a minefield, and it's easier to recover the T-64. Tank on tank combat in this war is rare, and that's what the Leopard II, Challenger 2, and Abrams are built for. Every other tank in the Ukrainian arsenal can deal with pretty much all other targets just as well as those top tier tanks. The big tank killer in this war is a tight battle between drones and artillery. I think artillery is probably the winner. ATGMs and mines are third and forth with other tanks being the bottom of the pack.
Another killer of tanks is entropy. Both sides have lost a lot of tanks to simple wear and tear. Especially among the tanks older than the gray beards in the units operating them.
I like seeing Ukraine's tech-tree continue to grow. Courtesy of UK-tech now russia can't even have a black sea port at Sevastopol
First abrams will be in ukraine next week. It's disappointing how little MBT we've all provided--like kind of laughably small numbers, especially from a country like us. We have so much extra kit sitting around, and given that russia is clearly suiciding themselves and their own military stock, the only other adversary of the US after this is done will be China. Not to say russia is going away but there can no longer be any doubt that in an all out conventional war between nato and russia it would be stupendously unsuccessful for russia.
In a recent interview with one of the higher ups in the Ukraine military he made the point that Ukraine doesn't need lots of tanks. This is not that kind of war. They need more missiles, more artillery, and the tools for the infantry carrying out most of the fight.
If the US had given Ukraine 500 Abrams, it wouldn't have made much difference. An Abrams with a blown off track in the middle of a minefield is just as useful as a T-64 with a blown off track in the middle of a minefield, and it's easier to recover the T-64. Tank on tank combat in this war is rare, and that's what the Leopard II, Challenger 2, and Abrams are built for. Every other tank in the Ukrainian arsenal can deal with pretty much all other targets just as well as those top tier tanks. The big tank killer in this war is a tight battle between drones and artillery. I think artillery is probably the winner. ATGMs and mines are third and forth with other tanks being the bottom of the pack.
Another killer of tanks is entropy. Both sides have lost a lot of tanks to simple wear and tear. Especially among the tanks older than the gray beards in the units operating them.
I found this piece interesting. Questioning what deals N.Korea and Russia might end up making, if any.
theins.ru
An Un-eventful visit: North Korean leader's hyped-up meeting with Putin falls flat
Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un met in Vladivostok in the Russian Far East on September 13, four years after their previous meeting in 2019
theins.ru
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Some intel on the Russian T-14 Armata tank. A (sometimes) rolling Potemkin façade?...
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
UKR has been first sending drones to a target, then sending the payload missiles with great effect. Will Russia be able to do the same ? If the difference (and massive advantage) is that UKR can launch the drones from Russian territory then the tactical advantage may persist.
That would be freaking awesome
Mod:
This thread has been exceptionally good at staying on point.
As has been pointed out by two Moderators in the past week or so, however, it also goes astray at times. Yesterday’s example, where some fifteen or so posts chased down a topic hashed over scores or even hundreds of times on TMC over the past decade and more - a little gratitude, not brickbats, is appropriate.
“Rewrite” is a very gentle way to tell someone that there was some topical material in a post, but either- as in one or two cases - a continuation of Off Topic drivel or, far worse, unacceptable language smears it, its author, and this community. Rewrite it, leaving out the 4th-grader’s pottymouth.
And as a personal point, the next time a poster denigrates a Moderator’s intelligence or perspicacity, regardless of circumstances, expect no longer to see him or her on TMC. As far as his or her decisions, if you have issue send a PM clarifying your point; do not distract a thread with such.
This thread has been exceptionally good at staying on point.
As has been pointed out by two Moderators in the past week or so, however, it also goes astray at times. Yesterday’s example, where some fifteen or so posts chased down a topic hashed over scores or even hundreds of times on TMC over the past decade and more - a little gratitude, not brickbats, is appropriate.
“Rewrite” is a very gentle way to tell someone that there was some topical material in a post, but either- as in one or two cases - a continuation of Off Topic drivel or, far worse, unacceptable language smears it, its author, and this community. Rewrite it, leaving out the 4th-grader’s pottymouth.
And as a personal point, the next time a poster denigrates a Moderator’s intelligence or perspicacity, regardless of circumstances, expect no longer to see him or her on TMC. As far as his or her decisions, if you have issue send a PM clarifying your point; do not distract a thread with such.
Tiger
Active Member
I use chatgpt to summarize some posts, you could try that too so we all get the revised version
The existing T-14s are just prototypes. The Russians may have planned something else for full production, but the way the Russian military system works these days, no new equipment can go into production without foreign orders for the first batch. There is also a prototype SP artillery system they can't get into production for the same reason.
They claim to be making the Su-57 themselves without export orders, but they have only made 10 prototypes and 11 production aircraft. The first production airframe crashed before delivery. I see no evidence they have continued production since the war began other than completing a few that were in production when the war began.
The BMPT Terminator which is a T-72 with a remote turret armed with small caliber auto cannons and ATGMs has entered service. They got some export orders from Algeria and Kazakhstan. The Russian army got 8. They have been seen in Ukraine with at least 1 lost and 1 damaged.
Some debate if this is a war crime or not:
War crime TRUE: he surrendered and was injured
War crame FALSE: he was on Russian territory, impossible to have him surrender, he could have been rescued, healed and back killing again.
War crime TRUE: he surrendered and was injured
War crame FALSE: he was on Russian territory, impossible to have him surrender, he could have been rescued, healed and back killing again.
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