Russia/Ukraine conflict

[wdolson]

Wouldn't a light car tripping a mine blow it up into the air into a slightly different place and possibly touch off a different mine? How far apart are these mines? Why not shoot barrels full of water to roll over the field or something heavy to set off mines. Hell strip the SUVs down to just the drive train with barrels of water or somehing to give them wait on them so when they blow there really won't be much wreckage to block anything. I'm sure the Ukrainians will come up with something that will work. They are great at innovation.

What you are describing is a mine roller which is already in use. The mine fields are so dense the mine roller gets used up in only a few meters and then it needs to have the rollers repaired.

I saw something on Twitter about Ukraine inventing a new kind on mine clearing machine. I can't link it here, but I am sure I didn't imagine it.

I think I saw the same thing. It was a farmer who came up with a plow attachment to clear his fields so he could plant.

Hrm... the mines require some amount of pressure right? Or are they also looking for something metallic (via some sort of electromagnetic sensing)?

If it's just pressure, imagine an oversized RC car with a roller pushed in front by 10 feet or so (whatever the "safe" distance is that you would expect to be able to reverse the vehicle out of the minefield), and instead of a big metal roller with violent chains, something like wooden barrel full of water, when it blows up, the water just goes everywhere (and probably helps absorb some of the explosive force), the wood gets shattered and thrown (but only thing out there is RC vehicles), and as long as the RC vehicles and barrels can drive over shattered wood chunks without problems, you just reverse the RC de-miner and swap in a new barrel... the actual RC vehicle could be whatever works (old tracked vehicle repurposed, exported "clunkers for ukraine" ICE vehicles, whatever), with RC hardware bodged on.

Alternatively, the barrel is just there to apply pressure, not contain the water itself, and suspended above it is an open platform you can toss a waterbed on or something similar full of water.

The problem with a barrel is that it's a one time use thing. Once it finds a mine, it will be gone and you have to replace it.

A mine roller is designed to take several mines before the rollers need to be replaced
Mine roller - Wikipedia

Mines are set off by pressure, but different types of mines take different levels of pressure. The Russians are mixing anti-personnel and anti-tank mines in the same fields. The anti-personnel mines only take 5-50 Kg of pressure to set them off, AT mines take 100-300 Kg.

The Russians also have butterfly mines
PFM-1 mine - Wikipedia

This is a list of all Russian equipment with a section on Mines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces

 

[wdolson]

Ukraine hit the port of Novorossiysk, Russia with drone boats. The Olenegorsky Gornyk was hit and is listing badly.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687356280069820416

Information on the class
Ropucha-class landing ship - Wikipedia
-------------------------
Looking at the Ukrainian claims for losses. The artillery loses started an upswing around May 18. Since then the Russians have lost 1718 guns, which is an average of 22 a day. That's on top of the ~3200 they lost in combat before May 18 and it doesn't count the guns taken out of service for other reasons than combat damage.

 

[petit_bateau]

Re using thermobarics for mine clearance, @wdolson has given the key info y'all need to reflect on: "Mines are set off by pressure, but different types of mines take different levels of pressure. The Russians are mixing anti-personnel and anti-tank mines in the same fields. The anti-personnel mines only take 5-50 Kg of pressure to set them off, AT mines take 100-300 Kg." The 100m long rocket-propelled line charges that both USA and Russia have work by multiple simultaneous methods a) mechanically disrupting the mine mechanisms; b) cooking them to go off; c) pressure-activating them; d) ejecting them from the strip. If you look at the devices they are rocket propelled so you don't have to get up close and personal to a) the bad people shooting back at you; and b) the overpressure of the blast and the ejecta. Now if you want to drop a bigger bomb (irrespective of whether it is a thermobaric or a conventional) to utilise the same methods then you need to think about the overpressure radius and the safe delivery mechanism and the required quantity. The MOAB 'only' delivers 20psi at 300 ft radius (100m). The igniter pressure pad on a anti-tank mine is only of the order of 2 sq inches, so that is only 40 lbs force, say 20kg if hopeful. That won't clear AT mines very well at 300 ft from the blast centre. The good news is that it won't make a big crater either (that is one advantage of a thermobaric). This is precisely why the line-charge clearance devices were designed and can still only clear an approx 5m width lane over 100m length.

The Mother of All MOAB Articles | National Review

Taking ‘shock and awe’ to the next level — an analysis of the MOAB’s effectiveness.

www.nationalreview.com

==============================

Non-random links. Ukraine Opsec is good so information re progress has been sparse, and the Osint community has been cooperating to limit news spread. This is all cleared news.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687223909291094016

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687083486874578944

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687141321453240321

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687346322708262912

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687359129508016128

https://twitter.com/tendar/status/1687353705530830848

==============

The successful attack on the Russian vessel at Novorossiysk using a surface USV drone is very important. About a month ago there were some less successful UAV drone air attacks against something at the Novorossiysk port, most likely oil tankage. Now we have a successful attack against a major surface combatant vessel. And it was accompanied by first-person-video footage that showed it performing an evasive course at night prior to impact. Not that anything seemed to be firing back - you can see the main radar-controlled guns still fore-and-aft that are supposed to be the best way of stopping a drone attack. So either Starlink is now enabled for Russian territorial waters, or Ukraine has an alternative and very viable comms solution.

The Novorossiysk port is the only other Black Sea port of any significance in Russian control other than Sevastpol. The Russians had withdrawn a lot of their fleet to Novorossiysk to get them away from the high-risk drone attacks in Sevastpol. Also Novorossiysk is an important cargo port for both oil and grain and general cargo. This gives Russia a real headache.

(No wonder they requisitioned those civilian ferry ro-ros a few days ago)

It also means two sides get to sit at the table when discussing shipping embargos: and not just on grain. Also on oil, and general cargo. Insurers will be declaring Novorossiysk a war zone area soon, if not already.

Also note that there have been surface drone attacks using 1-3 drones at least twice per week in the last few weeks. This indicates that Ukraine has quite a useful medium volume production line going, and also the full sensor-to-shooter network to do ocean surveillance, target identification, acquisition, USV mission planning delivery and final manouevre. Continually. I think the last strike was against some ships a hundred miles out at sea. I think Russian war vessels are now at risk anywhere in the sector I have dashed in. Good effort, and I'm pretty sure I know who is providing the support for this. BZ all.

 

[bo3bdar]

Wouldn't a light car tripping a mine blow it up into the air into a slightly different place and possibly touch off a different mine? How far apart are these mines? Why not shoot barrels full of water to roll over the field or something heavy to set off mines. Hell strip the SUVs down to just the drive train with barrels of water or somehing to give them wait on them so when they blow there really won't be much wreckage to block anything. I'm sure the Ukrainians will come up with something that will work. They are great at innovation.

What you are describing is a mine roller which is already in use. The mine fields are so dense the mine roller gets used up in only a few meters and then it needs to have the rollers repaired.



Mines are set off by pressure, but different types of mines take different levels of pressure. The Russians are mixing anti-personnel and anti-tank mines in the same fields. The anti-personnel mines only take 5-50 Kg of pressure to set them off, AT mines take 100-300 Kg.

The Russians also have butterfly mines
PFM-1 mine - Wikipedia

This is a list of all Russian equipment with a section on Mines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces

I saw something on Twitter about Ukraine inventing a new kind on mine clearing machine. I can't link it here, but I am sure I didn't imagine it.

I think I saw the same thing. It was a farmer who came up with a plow attachment to clear his fields so he could plant.

Here's something developed by Ukraine for mine-rolling. Small excerpt from Russian Dude video. Not sure if this is related to the farmer's approach or something different.

While the NATO approaches for mine clearing are clearly functional, and something like MICLICs would be desirable, there simply aren't enough of them available to make a difference. Also being gold-plated doesn't really help when you have thousands of kilometers of mine fields.

The point of thought exercises like demining equipment is to think about alternative approaches, not the preferred Military Industrial Complex approach. Ukraine can't afford all this gold plated stuff, and they need it now not months in the future. Mine roller tanks and MICLIC would be great. Why are we not delivering them en masse?

It's also worth noting that on this specific battlefield, that mine clearing tanks are useless because they will be spotted by Russian recon drones well before they get to the mine field, and certainly after the first hit. So how long until the tank is destroyed by artillery? It's not a viable frontal assault approach. You might be able to pull off a MICLIC strike, one, before being targeted with artillery and kamikaze drones. And as noted, you need a minimum of 10 to make a difference, and any spot you clear will have enhanced recon, at least for awhile.


I like the ideas of something dumb and stupid cheap that can be blown up without really caring. Something you can produce 10,000 of in a production line well back from the front. Something like an RC car that is big enough to push something like a 55 gallon drum roller full of water.

Just armchair engineering, because I'm an engineer. One point of good engineering is that it must match the business/cost use case. And we don't have anything remotely cheap enough yet. I trust the Ukrainian engineers are brain storming and can come up with good ideas as well, but probably not in time for the current fighting season.

 

[wdolson]

Re using thermobarics for mine clearance, @wdolson has given the key info y'all need to reflect on: "Mines are set off by pressure, but different types of mines take different levels of pressure. The Russians are mixing anti-personnel and anti-tank mines in the same fields. The anti-personnel mines only take 5-50 Kg of pressure to set them off, AT mines take 100-300 Kg." The 100m long rocket-propelled line charges that both USA and Russia have work by multiple simultaneous methods a) mechanically disrupting the mine mechanisms; b) cooking them to go off; c) pressure-activating them; d) ejecting them from the strip. If you look at the devices they are rocket propelled so you don't have to get up close and personal to a) the bad people shooting back at you; and b) the overpressure of the blast and the ejecta. Now if you want to drop a bigger bomb (irrespective of whether it is a thermobaric or a conventional) to utilise the same methods then you need to think about the overpressure radius and the safe delivery mechanism and the required quantity. The MOAB 'only' delivers 20psi at 300 ft radius (100m). The igniter pressure pad on a anti-tank mine is only of the order of 2 sq inches, so that is only 40 lbs force, say 20kg if hopeful. That won't clear AT mines very well at 300 ft from the blast centre. The good news is that it won't make a big crater either (that is one advantage of a thermobaric). This is precisely why the line-charge clearance devices were designed and can still only clear an approx 5m width lane over 100m length.

The Mother of All MOAB Articles | National Review

Taking ‘shock and awe’ to the next level — an analysis of the MOAB’s effectiveness.

www.nationalreview.com

==============================

Non-random links. Ukraine Opsec is good so information re progress has been sparse, and the Osint community has been cooperating to limit news spread. This is all cleared news.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687353705530830848

==============

The successful attack on the Russian vessel at Novorossiysk using a surface USV drone is very important. About a month ago there were some less successful UAV drone air attacks against something at the Novorossiysk port, most likely oil tankage. Now we have a successful attack against a major surface combatant vessel. And it was accompanied by first-person-video footage that showed it performing an evasive course at night prior to impact. Not that anything seemed to be firing back - you can see the main radar-controlled guns still fore-and-aft that are supposed to be the best way of stopping a drone attack. So either Starlink is now enabled for Russian territorial waters, or Ukraine has an alternative and very viable comms solution.

The Novorossiysk port is the only other Black Sea port of any significance in Russian control other than Sevastpol. The Russians had withdrawn a lot of their fleet to Novorossiysk to get them away from the high-risk drone attacks in Sevastpol. Also Novorossiysk is an important cargo port for both oil and grain and general cargo. This gives Russia a real headache.

(No wonder they requisitioned those civilian ferry ro-ros a few days ago)

It also means two sides get to sit at the table when discussing shipping embargos: and not just on grain. Also on oil, and general cargo. Insurers will be declaring Novorossiysk a war zone area soon, if not already.

Also note that there have been surface drone attacks using 1-3 drones at least twice per week in the last few weeks. This indicates that Ukraine has quite a useful medium volume production line going, and also the full sensor-to-shooter network to do ocean surveillance, target identification, acquisition, USV mission planning delivery and final manouevre. Continually. I think the last strike was against some ships a hundred miles out at sea. I think Russian war vessels are now at risk anywhere in the sector I have dashed in. Good effort, and I'm pretty sure I know who is providing the support for this. BZ all.

View attachment 962114


View attachment 962117

Mykiolev has a ship building industry. The engineers and technicians from there have probably been working quite diligently on drone boats since the beginning of the war. They have developed the modern U-boat. Ukraine can't control the Black Sea, but they can deny control of it from the Russians.

In Vietnam the US had a bomb called a Daisy Cutter that was used to make emergency helipads. Drop one and it would cut down everything in a big enough diameter to land a helicopter. Unfortunately I don't think they produced enough ground pressure to set off mines.

I found some more information on the BLU-96.
CAT-UXO - Blu 96 aircraft bomb

It's a little unclear if they are talking about the Marine surface launched version only not creating enough overpressure to set off mines or this bomb doesn't too.

From reading this, I assume the Russian TOS creates its high pressure wave by carrying its own oxygen supply, so the fuel burns incredibly quick. The BLU uses atmospheric oxygen so it burns more slowly. With a much larger fuel load, they probably have a much larger blast radius. Burning more slowly it may not produce much ground pressure.

Here's something developed by Ukraine for mine-rolling. Small excerpt from Russian Dude video. Not sure if this is related to the farmer's approach or something different.

View attachment 962128


While the NATO approaches for mine clearing are clearly functional, and something like MICLICs would be desirable, there simply aren't enough of them available to make a difference. Also being gold-plated doesn't really help when you have thousands of kilometers of mine fields.

The point of thought exercises like demining equipment is to think about alternative approaches, not the preferred Military Industrial Complex approach. Ukraine can't afford all this gold plated stuff, and they need it now not months in the future. Mine roller tanks and MICLIC would be great. Why are we not delivering them en masse?

It's also worth noting that on this specific battlefield, that mine clearing tanks are useless because they will be spotted by Russian recon drones well before they get to the mine field, and certainly after the first hit. So how long until the tank is destroyed by artillery? It's not a viable frontal assault approach. You might be able to pull off a MICLIC strike, one, before being targeted with artillery and kamikaze drones. And as noted, you need a minimum of 10 to make a difference, and any spot you clear will have enhanced recon, at least for awhile.


I like the ideas of something dumb and stupid cheap that can be blown up without really caring. Something you can produce 10,000 of in a production line well back from the front. Something like an RC car that is big enough to push something like a 55 gallon drum roller full of water.

Just armchair engineering, because I'm an engineer. One point of good engineering is that it must match the business/cost use case. And we don't have anything remotely cheap enough yet. I trust the Ukrainian engineers are brain storming and can come up with good ideas as well, but probably not in time for the current fighting season.

My background is engineering too (Electronic, but my school thought everyone should have a broad spectrum background so I had to take a number of Mechanical engineering classes too). From an ex-tanker that my partner read, the mine roller attachments for tanks cause fuel consumption to go through the roof, so they only attach them just before using them.

That tells me the rolling resistance for a mine roller is extremely high, which makes sense, but it also means you need a pretty powerful engine to push it. A large farm tractor or heavy construction equipment can probably develop the torque needed. There are mine roller kits for the Bradley and Stryker. I'm not sure a 1/2 ton pickup would do the job.

A company called Westminster, which appears to be British, has some mine clearing vehicles based on construction equipment
Mine Clearance Vehicles - Westminster Group

 

[nativewolf]

Well the forums focus on drones the last week or so was timely! @petit_bateau thanks for your insight on the maritime drones and implications.

Re mine clearing ..someone posted still shots of the thermobarics after effects, very clear in the fields that Ukraine was using these charges very selectively, also clear that Russia was mining intelligently, some areas mined heavily then some areas skipped, then mined again. So in the one drone shot you could see 3 separate thermobarics scars across fields each separated by hundreds of meters and at cross angles.

 

[nativewolf]

In addition to the naval drone attack in russia itself, the UAF also hit an oil storage site in Crimea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687392183131766787

 

[nativewolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687337545980620801

Well this is the SBU getting creative and ugly.

 

[Bobfitz1]

The only novel suggestion I've seen here for a mine clearing device that might work is thermobaric weapons. Unfortunately I don't think the west has any large enough that Ukraine can use. The US has a number in use, called FAE (Fuel Air Explosives). Most of the US inventory are air dropped weapons. The Marines have a rocket for the Mk 193 rocket launcher (looks like a WW II bazooka) that is a thermobaric weapon, but it's a small hand launched weapon. According to Wikipedia the Ukrainians have some of these.

If the BLU bombs could be adapted to use the strap on smart bomb kits Ukrainian aircraft might be able to deliver them to the minefields. Trying to fly over the minefields to drop dumb bombs would likely be suicide.

This article from BBC recounts some history of U.S. and Russia developing very large thermobaric bombs. Given how they work it seems they can be built any size that is useful for a specific military task. Especially interesting in this article is the statement that large ones have been designed (and presumably built) to kill defenders in cave and tunnel complexes. A different article pointed out that themobarics are lethal both from the heat of the exploding vapor and from the huge pressure wave it creates. This suggests that one designed for clearing mine fields could produce a pressure wave that could detonate all the mines in the area it's been built to destroy. Mines nearer the epicenter of the blast, buried a few feet under the ground might well be set off by the heat of the blast. Ukraine claims Russians have used thermobarics occasionally to attack troops. Given their technical skills I would imagine building their own would not be too difficult. I won't get into challenges around delivering large thermobaric weapons accurately to a huge land mine zone, but if they were able to do so it might be possible to blast a wide path through the deep mine field that tanks could use to stream through the gap created.

What is a thermobaric or vacuum bomb?.

"Huge air-launched versions have also been designed, specifically to kill defenders in caves and tunnel complexes - the effects of this weapon are at their most severe in enclosed spaces.
In 2003, the US tested a 9,800kg bomb, nicknamed the "Mother of all bombs". Four years later, Russia developed a similar device, the Father of all bombs". This created an explosion equivalent to a 44-tonne conventional bomb - making it the biggest non-nuclear explosive device in the world.

Given their devastating impact, and their usefulness against defenders who are dug in to buildings or bunkers, thermobaric bombs have mainly been used in urban environments."

 

[madodel]

Hrm... the mines require some amount of pressure right? Or are they also looking for something metallic (via some sort of electromagnetic sensing)?

If it's just pressure, imagine an oversized RC car with a roller pushed in front by 10 feet or so (whatever the "safe" distance is that you would expect to be able to reverse the vehicle out of the minefield), and instead of a big metal roller with violent chains, something like wooden barrel full of water, when it blows up, the water just goes everywhere (and probably helps absorb some of the explosive force), the wood gets shattered and thrown (but only thing out there is RC vehicles), and as long as the RC vehicles and barrels can drive over shattered wood chunks without problems, you just reverse the RC de-miner and swap in a new barrel... the actual RC vehicle could be whatever works (old tracked vehicle repurposed, exported "clunkers for ukraine" ICE vehicles, whatever), with RC hardware bodged on.

Alternatively, the barrel is just there to apply pressure, not contain the water itself, and suspended above it is an open platform you can toss a waterbed on or something similar full of water.

I've never been fond of water beds either. Blowing them up sounds like a good idea as well.

 

[petit_bateau]

Well the forums focus on drones the last week or so was timely! @petit_bateau thanks for your insight on the maritime drones and implications.

Mykiolev has a ship building industry. The engineers and technicians from there have probably been working quite diligently on drone boats since the beginning of the war. They have developed the modern U-boat. Ukraine can't control the Black Sea, but they can deny control of it from the Russians.
In Vietnam the US had a bomb called a Daisy Cutter that was used to make emergency helipads. Drop one and it would cut down everything in a big enough diameter to land a helicopter. Unfortunately I don't think they produced enough ground pressure to set off mines.

I found some more information on the BLU-96.

- I have a fairly shrewd idea that the various surface drones begat most of their design rather closer to me than to Mykolaiv.

- The Daisy Cutter was the progenitor of the MOAB in many ways.

This article from BBC recounts some history of U.S. and Russia developing very large thermobaric bombs. Given how they work it seems they can be built any size that is useful for a specific military task. Especially interesting in this article is the statement that large ones have been designed (and presumably built) to kill defenders in cave and tunnel complexes. A different article pointed out that themobarics are lethal both from the heat of the exploding vapor and from the huge pressure wave it creates. This suggests that one designed for clearing mine fields could produce a pressure wave that could detonate all the mines in the area it's been built to destroy. Mines nearer the epicenter of the blast, buried a few feet under the ground might well be set off by the heat of the blast. Ukraine claims Russians have used thermobarics occasionally to attack troops. Given their technical skills I would imagine building their own would not be too difficult. I won't get into challenges around delivering large thermobaric weapons accurately to a huge land mine zone, but if they were able to do so it might be possible to blast a wide path through the deep mine field that tanks could use to stream through the gap created.

What is a thermobaric or vacuum bomb?.

"Huge air-launched versions have also been designed, specifically to kill defenders in caves and tunnel complexes - the effects of this weapon are at their most severe in enclosed spaces.
In 2003, the US tested a 9,800kg bomb, nicknamed the "Mother of all bombs". Four years later, Russia developed a similar device, the Father of all bombs". This created an explosion equivalent to a 44-tonne conventional bomb - making it the biggest non-nuclear explosive device in the world.

Given their devastating impact, and their usefulness against defenders who are dug in to buildings or bunkers, thermobaric bombs have mainly been used in urban environments."

If you read the original link I gave re the MOAB, and read the calculation I gave , then you will understand that the journalist who wrote 'huge' does not understand weaponeering. As I point out the pressure created is insufficient to clear a very large area. Their efficacy in tunnel complexes is also somewhat suspect which is why the Allies used a different (British) weapon on recent cave/tunnel complex targets in Syria.

=========

China Russia rail softening as well

China-Russia rail volumes set to drop despite recent monopoly

With eighty per cent of international freight trains leaving China ending up in Russia, as several Chinese rail platform companies confirm, China-Russia volumes have sort of monopolised the Silk Road lately. 2023 has undoubtedly been the heyday of China-Russia trains; however, recent data shows...

www.railfreight.com

 

[nativewolf]

I figured you Islanders were up to something over there. Well it is interesting. Now they need to build 100 and shut down a few ports.

 

[iPlug]

Regarding high mileage/old SUVs/Trucks as AI-connected high speed disposable/suicide land-mine clearing swarming drones:

Seems like such an average vehicle weighs about 2000-2500kg. That's 500-625kg per tire. With that contact patch pressure and significant metallic ferrous vehicle content, is this not enough to set-off anti-tank and anti-personnel mines?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Regarding high mileage/old SUVs/Trucks as AI-connected high speed disposable/suicide land-mine clearing swarming drones:

Seems like such an average vehicle weighs about 2000-2500kg. That's 500-625kg per tire. With that contact patch pressure and significant metallic ferrous vehicle content, is this not enough to set-off anti-tank and anti-personnel mines?

From what I can find, weight triggered anti tank mines trigger with only 100-300kg so that can set it off. It's harder to determine the threshold for the magnetic trigged mines though.

I can see however mines being designed with higher trigger points to reject lighter attack vehicles, instead of just personnel. There's also the issue the contact area is relatively small for cars, so it's fairly easy to miss mines. That's why I think traditional mine clearing vehicles or attachments will be required, not just large scale RC cars.

 

[jerry33]

Regarding high mileage/old SUVs/Trucks as AI-connected high speed disposable/suicide land-mine clearing swarming drones:

Seems like such an average vehicle weighs about 2000-2500kg. That's 500-625kg per tire. With that contact patch pressure and significant metallic ferrous vehicle content, is this not enough to set-off anti-tank and anti-personnel mines?

Maybe, maybe not. Tires spread the load over their footprint, so it's not likely the entire 625 kg that will press down on the mine (depending upon soil conditions). The higher the pressure, the more load it will put on the mine.

 

[iPlug]

...also the issue the contact area is relatively small for cars, so it's fairly easy to miss mines. That's why I think traditional mine clearing vehicles or attachments will be required, not just large scale RC cars.

My arm-chair thought process for this is to run waves of ~8-12 vehicles per wave over a minefield at ~40mph, staggering them in each wave with tire tracks overlapping so no ground patches are missed. Keep enough space between vehicles in each wave, so when one detonates, others can route around. After one or a few land drones detonate on a mine, the next wave starts...

Maybe, maybe not. Tires spread the load over their footprint, so it's not likely the entire 625 kg that will press down on the mine (depending upon soil conditions). The higher the pressure, the more load it will put on the mine.

Tanks are certainly very heavy, yet spread load over a very wide area with their treads. Not sure, but possibly the contact patch pressure of a truck/SUV is actually higher. Someone here may know the comparison.



As far as I can surmise in my purely theoretical thought experiment, the biggest barrier is for some clever engineers to build or cobble together the AI software, autonomous swarm communications, and AI control hardware.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

My arm-chair thought process for this is to run waves of ~8-12 vehicles per wave over a minefield at ~40mph, staggering them in each wave with tire tracks overlapping so no ground patches are missed. Keep enough space between vehicles in each wave, so when one detonates, others can route around. After one or a few land drones detonate on a mine, the next wave starts...



Tanks are certainly very heavy, yet spread load over a very wide area with their treads. Not sure, but possibly the contact patch pressure of a truck/SUV is actually higher. Someone here may know the comparison.

Ground pressure - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They have that ground pressure if fully in contact with the ground.

 

[nativewolf]

Regarding high mileage/old SUVs/Trucks as AI-connected high speed disposable/suicide land-mine clearing swarming drones:

Seems like such an average vehicle weighs about 2000-2500kg. That's 500-625kg per tire. With that contact patch pressure and significant metallic ferrous vehicle content, is this not enough to set-off anti-tank and anti-personnel mines?

Yes but when it blows up it has to be moved to get access to the next row.

 

[iPlug]

Yes but when it blows up it has to be moved to get access to the next row.

Why does it need to be moved? Best to leave it be.

The next land drone in line goes around and mapping out a detour continues in rapid algorhytmic fashion. A straight cleared path through a minefield although would be quite nice would be very unlikely yet not needed. The final cleared path would be some sort of zig/zag.

 

[nativewolf]

The minefields are 100 meters deep. So you hit mines in 5 meters, then you have 10 vehicles stuck in the way of attack. It tells the enemy exactly where you want to attack. They just sit and wait. When you bring something to tow the wrecks away you get hit by ATGM, helicopters, etc. If they are really clever they sneak over at night and move 20 mines a bit closer to your lines so you think you are safe and get hit there.