Probably because Mexico isn't concerned about getting invaded by the US or Guatemala. And the last time the US poked around in Indo-China didn't end well.
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
And last time USSR poked around near US we almost got a nuclear war. I think from a realpolitik perspective it is best to leave a set of neutral countries between nato and Russia.
The important thing is - Ukraine war didn’t happen in a vacuum.
Now how do we square this with the obvious rights of Ukraine to decide what they want to do (or for Taiwan or Tibet) is a different matter.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
No. I didn't watch. Why should I? I don't have an infinite amount of time to just waste(!)...
So tell us – why should the Russian Dictator get to decide over the countries that joined NATO? And why should the Russian Dictator get to decide over the ~44 million people that live in Ukraine?
And why should the Russian Dictator get to decide that murdering some 100.000(?) human beings in Ukraine and sending some 325.000 Russian serfs to get slaughtered in 'an Imperial War of Conquest' while also completely leveling giant parts of Ukraine with millions of artillery rounds, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, Iranian drones and bombs dropped from air planes is somehow acceptable?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Then don’t assume stuff !
He is a humanist historian - not someone who would agree with a fascist like Putin (or for that matter Netanyahu or you know who in US).
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
In what way is this "a different matter"?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Tiger
Active Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Because real politick is always different from ethical matters. But ethics is always used as a cover for big power wars.
Otherwise - let us first start talking about Native American genocide, colonization, Iraq war etc.
just wow.
Mersheimer says give Putin the territory he invaded and took,
give him more if he wants, like 1/2 ukrain or more
ignore the terror _putin_ instigated.
watched enough to know mersheim should have tea and strumpets with putin while both sing "i believe i can fly"
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
How does whatever happened in the Iraq war give a Russian Military Dictator 'the right' to murder some 100.000(?) human beings in Ukraine and send some 325.000 Russian serfs to get slaughtered in 'an Imperial War of Conquest' while also completely leveling giant parts of Ukraine with millions of artillery rounds and thousands of cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, Iranian drones and bombs dropped from air planes?
And how is the Native American genocide and colonization relevant to what the Russian Dictator has been doing in Ukraine for the last ~8 years?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You are all confused.
Nobody has the right to harm others - US or Putin or Hamas or Israel.
But that is not what we are talking about. For a historian - the question is - why did Russia invade Ukraine. One reason given (mostly in US media) is that Putin is an expansionist and wants to recreate USSR. But the alternative view is Putin just wanted to prevent expansion of NATO. Full Stop. Its not about ethics of war - all aggressive wars are unethical ! Nobody is arguing they are - not him, nor I.
Oh what gives US the right to murder a million people in Iraq and call them "collateral damage" or call genocidal invaders "pilgrims" ?
go back and watch it and ==>LOOK<== at the graphics and then get back to us
BIG HINT:
around 7 minute mark map
It's all rationalization for today's genocide by fascist murderers. There are no trustworthy NAZIs. Their are no good NAZIs. NAZIs will continue to slaughter everyone who doesn't fit into their worldview or worship them. This has been learned repeatedly through modern history.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
7 mins? He believes that there is a risk that Putin will take more land and therefore handing the current land over might end up being a good deal.
The other things to contend:
- What value (in future Ukrainian and Russian lives) does 1 hectare of mined land have?
- Can we police the world?
- What are the benefits of not policing the world? (Africa etc.)
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
And according to you – how does Putin being a Military Dictator factor in in all of this? ALL dissent inside of Russia against Putin's War is punishable by some 7-20(?) years in prison – or in the case of Olga Nazarenko – death... How does this 'factor in'?
Russian anti-war activist dies after ‘fall from height’
Olga Nazarenko was well-known for her stubborn protests against the Kremlin
www.telegraph.co.uk
How does the total media censorship about Putin's War 'factor in'?
What gives a group of perhaps ~50 people at the top of what is a Mafia run Military Dictatorship the right to decide this?
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
This talks as if the countries themselves have no agency. It's not NATO courting the countries, it's those countries naturally wanting to join NATO and the EU because that is better than being a little brother to Russia after the collapse of the USSR. In fact, when they were going to join. there were plenty of existing NATO members which were iffy about it. So rather than an eastern expansion of NATO, it was the Baltic nations building closer ties with the west.
Edit: I should note also the "promise" is also BS if you look into the details of it. There was nothing written, and in context it was in relation to the USSR and East/West Germany. The idea other parts of USSR joining NATO was not even a thought at all at the time. Once USSR collapsed that all went out the window given the USSR doesn't even exist anymore. NATO never made promises to Russia that parts of former USSR can't join NATO.
On the other hand, Russia actually signed a written document that they would ensure the integrity of Ukraine in exchange for them giving up nuclear weapons.
The justification for the Russian invasion based on NATO eastern expansion doesn't hold up to even cursory examination, even though somehow a few US academics seem to have been buying that argument.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
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Tiger
Active Member
You are it.
This is what Russia wants the western media&elite to think so it can continue its imperialism.
Nothing, but the US is not imperialistic (though perhaps crony capitalistic).
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Terminator857
Active Member
Ukraine doesn't sound too happy with the F16s it is receiving.
mil.in.ua
MP Oleksandra Ustinova:
Quote: ... It makes no sense to just give us an aircraft with a 60-kilometer radar, like MiGs have, ...
She emphasized that only modernized aircraft will be able to counter Russian aviation on the front line and influence the course of hostilities.
“This is the only way we will be able to detect their planes, which are throwing 500-kilogram bombs at our guys on the front line. At the moment, they’re flying a plane, launching a guided bomb, and we don’t see it,” she says.
Ukraine discusses F-16 modernization
Ukraine is looking for opportunities to modernize the F-16 fighter jets planned for transfer.
mil.in.ua
Quote: ... It makes no sense to just give us an aircraft with a 60-kilometer radar, like MiGs have, ...
She emphasized that only modernized aircraft will be able to counter Russian aviation on the front line and influence the course of hostilities.
“This is the only way we will be able to detect their planes, which are throwing 500-kilogram bombs at our guys on the front line. At the moment, they’re flying a plane, launching a guided bomb, and we don’t see it,” she says.
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