Sandy Munro Says Tesla Shouldn't Build A $25,000 Electric Car

[tangible1]

Given Musk's view that they'll crack autonomy, it doesn't make sense to make a cheap car until it's an autonomous vehicle.
Cheap autonomy would destroy the low-end market.

cheap autonomy destroys the mid-high end. When all you need to get any where is an inexpensive box, all that's left is a market for the hoi poi.

 

[voyager]

No FEDERAL tax credits, but plenty of states offer credits or other incentives for purchasing EV's.

Maybe time to bring an EV that does not rely on tax credits?
If you think about it, that would be a powerful 'tool' too politically, and around the globe in places where governments find it hard to tax credits EVs at all...

 

[tangible1]

I am one of those buyers. I was ready to buy last spring but after reading the forums here and attempting to get a test drive it was quickly apparent that I would probably not have a happy relationship with Tesla. The car I looked at had numerous flaws that they stated were normal. There were cars all over the lot with big red arrow stickers pointing out flaws awaiting service. I asked if a loaner would be provided while things were fixed and the salesman actually laughed. My Prior BMW had to stay overnight for a issue we caused and they put us in a 5 series loaner for the 3 series we brought in. Every phone call is answered or returned in 30 minutes. I keep watching hoping to see things get better but from what I see on the forums and the volume of cars sold verses the increase in service capacity it’s only going to get far worse.

My 535i cost me 17K over 5 years AFTER the inclusion of all the work done under an unlimited mileage service contract.
The transmission failed at 89K miles.
Water pumps failed regularly.
Brake rotors warped at the touch of the pads.

Summary: Never Again. BMW likes their cars more than their customers.

 

[ScoobyDoo82]

Yet Fred Lambert just got a new battery and rear motor on his 2012 due to water infiltration. It's unlikely that EVs built today will last longer than ICE. With more experience and better chemistry EV will likely be built to last a long time, assuming that buyers of new cars want to pay extra for that feature.

I'm sure that when Ford released the Model A some people were sure it was all the car anyone would ever need.

Tesla likely has to build a car starting at $25K to do the volume they want to sell. The ASP will likely be $30K. Still not a cheap car.

30k is a cheap car by today’s standards. A fully loaded Honda Civic is near $35k, my neighbor just paid $27k for a Corolla. Cars aren’t cheap anymore. The whole world is upside down when it comes to consumer electronics. Everything is different now. EV’s like Tesla’s are rated for 500k-1million miles. Most (American) ICE cars won’t make it past 300k.

 

[dazedNconfuzed]

What could Tesla remove from a base M3 without moving it into “cheap crap” territory?

200 mile range is a psychological minimum.
Autopilot is central to their brand & product path.
A 30XSS body could cut costs but look too strange.
2 seater might do it, but then 2 seats.

 

[Catbiscuits]

My 535i cost me 17K over 5 years AFTER the inclusion of all the work done under an unlimited mileage service contract.
The transmission failed at 89K miles.
Water pumps failed regularly.
Brake rotors warped at the touch of the pads.

Summary: Never Again. BMW likes their cars more than their customers.

Wow, yes. I had the same experience with my 2011 335xi. Two blown clutches, the first at 15,000 miles. The morons said I didn’t know how to drive manual. I informed them that I had been driving manual longer than they had been alive. It worked once, not twice. The clutch was too weak for the torque the car put out. Eventually, a mechanic explained that they didn’t actually expect people to buy sticks, it was just there for the advertising value. Don’t get me started on how bad the service was. My friend the mechanic quit the industry completely when it became clear to her that she would be a service writer, a job that as she described it, consists of upwelling people with fraudulent service needs. Oh, and having to badger BMW to perform service on the car. Infuriating. Well, maybe better than the time we brought in my wife’s 530xi for the last warranty service, they flooded the rear electronics bay with water during the car wash and then charged us $3,500 to repair what happened in their garage because they didn't clean out the drains properly. I had multiple people at BMW tell me that the cars were not supposed to last past warranty and you were a fool to keep them beyond that. I have one friend who still drives them. She gets a new one every three years on lease. Since she is a partner at her firm, she just writes it off. But since it’s a company car, she is always stuck on the 320s which are seriously underpowered. And they get uglier and uglier every time.

Yes, brake rotors and water pumps. And then there were headlights. $1,500 each for auto-leveling BS that broke every time I hit a pothole (as did the rims) which in New Jersey is frequent.

It was finally totaled due to a flash flood last year that hit while I was under a railroad trestle.

I should add that my wife’s Model Y is faster and has better handling. 20,000 miles, a year and a half, and absolutely no service. Completely different experience than the BMW.

 

[tangible1]

Wow, yes. I had the same experience with my 2011 335xi. Two blown clutches, the first at 15,000 miles. The morons said I didn’t know how to drive manual. I informed them that I had been driving manual longer than they had been alive. It worked once, not twice. The clutch was too weak for the torque the car put out. Eventually, a mechanic explained that they didn’t actually expect people to buy sticks, it was just there for the advertising value. Don’t get me started on how bad the service was. My friend the mechanic quit the industry completely when it became clear to her that she would be a service writer, a job that as she described it, consists of upwelling people with fraudulent service needs. Oh, and having to badger BMW to perform service on the car. Infuriating. Well, maybe better than the time we brought in my wife’s 530xi for the last warranty service, they flooded the rear electronics bay with water during the car wash and then charged us $3,500 to repair what happened in their garage because they didn't clean out the drains properly. I had multiple people at BMW tell me that the cars were not supposed to last past warranty and you were a fool to keep them beyond that. I have one friend who still drives them. She gets a new one every three years on lease. Since she is a partner at her firm, she just writes it off. But since it’s a company car, she is always stuck on the 320s which are seriously underpowered. And they get uglier and uglier every time.

Yes, brake rotors and water pumps. And then there were headlights. $1,500 each for auto-leveling BS that broke every time I hit a pothole (as did the rims) which in New Jersey is frequent.

It was finally totaled due to a flash flood last year that hit while I was under a railroad trestle.

I should add that my wife’s Model Y is faster and has better handling. 20,000 miles, a year and a half, and absolutely no service. Completely different experience than the BMW.

The "Ultimate Driving Machine" provides "Shear Driving Pleasure" only to the Quandt Family in Germany, which holds 50% ownership in BMW Group AG.
All others pay cash for the right to driving servitude.

I will never be a serf again.

 

[rickybobbee]

Wow, yes. I had the same experience with my 2011 335xi. Two blown clutches, the first at 15,000 miles. The morons said I didn’t know how to drive manual. I informed them that I had been driving manual longer than they had been alive. It worked once, not twice. The clutch was too weak for the torque the car put out. Eventually, a mechanic explained that they didn’t actually expect people to buy sticks, it was just there for the advertising value. Don’t get me started on how bad the service was. My friend the mechanic quit the industry completely when it became clear to her that she would be a service writer, a job that as she described it, consists of upwelling people with fraudulent service needs. Oh, and having to badger BMW to perform service on the car. Infuriating. Well, maybe better than the time we brought in my wife’s 530xi for the last warranty service, they flooded the rear electronics bay with water during the car wash and then charged us $3,500 to repair what happened in their garage because they didn't clean out the drains properly. I had multiple people at BMW tell me that the cars were not supposed to last past warranty and you were a fool to keep them beyond that. I have one friend who still drives them. She gets a new one every three years on lease. Since she is a partner at her firm, she just writes it off. But since it’s a company car, she is always stuck on the 320s which are seriously underpowered. And they get uglier and uglier every time.

Yes, brake rotors and water pumps. And then there were headlights. $1,500 each for auto-leveling BS that broke every time I hit a pothole (as did the rims) which in New Jersey is frequent.

It was finally totaled due to a flash flood last year that hit while I was under a railroad trestle.

I should add that my wife’s Model Y is faster and has better handling. 20,000 miles, a year and a half, and absolutely no service. Completely different experience than the BMW.

I owned a bmw x5 and believe it or not my experience with bmw service is way worse........never own a bmw again even if it was free. criminal organization

 

[SpicyPaneer]

I owned a bmw x5 and believe it or not my experience with bmw service is way worse........never own a bmw again even if it was free. criminal organization

Funny you mention BMWS, I had a previous M car for 3 years, I had no issues at all and sold it for more than I paid. All companies have two divisions. One for everyone else and a specialty market. Toyota has Kexus fir quality and refined quality. Etc

 

[SalisburySam]

So only people with less money mind if their 2 hour old new car loses a roof on a highway, or a bumper in the rain? Shocking! I guess that is more sensitive than a guy who would just leave the car on the side of the road, call for his helicopter to pick him up, then hop into one of his other 50 cars in his local collection after ordering a new Tesla on his phone during the helicopter ride.

Absolutely not. That guy would have his/her personal assistant order the new Tesla whilst on helicopter. No need to ”get dirty” actually speaking to the riff-raff.

 

[tangible1]

I owned a bmw x5 and believe it or not my experience with bmw service is way worse........never own a bmw again even if it was free. criminal organization

since we've broached the subject of BMW, my experience with them also left me with the "NEVER AGAIN" attitude.
M5, unlimited mileage warranty contract. Warped brake rotors all 4 corners multiple times. Multiple engine water pumps. Endless service visits.
$17K in maintenance costs over 5 years. Loved driving it. But it spent as much time in the shop as on the road.
The final straw occurred at 87K miles when the ZF transmission failed and the service contract holder refused payment towards a replacement.

When I approached BMW, they denied any issues and refused to acknowledge anything unusual about my experience.
Lesson learned. Eff those guys, and forever.