Seems like FSD is a complete crock

[EVNow]

Edit: and if you read the "old" FSD promise it was something along the lines of getting in my car and taking no action, my car would drive to my destination. No level promised, but door to door with no driver input.

Do you have the screenshot ?

In the end, I just want ONE thing the EAP owners don't get. Just one and I will be a happy camper. Doesn't have to be real FSD or anything, just something I can say that I paid $3k and got X.

The thing is I'm quite sure, Tesla can get to "good enough" FSD that needs you to keep your hands on the when and monitor, but will drive in 90% of scenarios. Just like freeway NOA. They will continue to improve the quality and point to regulators as to why you need to keep the hands on the wheel.

I guess advanced / smart summon is something only FSD folks will get - not EAP ?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Are you personally going to back that statement? Sounds pretty definitive.

@diplomat33 is blessed with infectious optimism! I hope he's right!

 

[jebinc]

@diplomat33 is blessed with infectious optimism! I hope he's right!

We all hope he is right, but he could also suffer from Kool-aide poisoning. ​

 

[EVDRVN]

@diplomat33 is blessed with infectious optimism! I hope he's right!

I wonder what flavor he drinks?

 

[Az_Rael]

Do you have the screenshot ?



The thing is I'm quite sure, Tesla can get to "good enough" FSD that needs you to keep your hands on the when and monitor, but will drive in 90% of scenarios. Just like freeway NOA. They will continue to improve the quality and point to regulators as to why you need to keep the hands on the wheel.

I guess advanced / smart summon is something only FSD folks will get - not EAP ?

Here it is. Notice it even has that 2016 video on the order screen. So capable of conducting trips with no driver action.

I believe smart summon was originally listed as an EAP feature (possibly on the S order page), so many are expecting that to still be an EAP feature, but who knows. I would gladly take it as my first FSD feature, but I am sure the EAP folks would not be happy.

 

[kavyboy]

I wonder what flavor he drinks?

You can't spell "Lemonade" without "Elon-made".

 

[EVDRVN]

I would love to just have AP not EAP and a refund for the other useless features.

 

[EVNow]

Here it is. Notice it even has that 2016 video on the order screen. So capable of conducting trips with no driver action.

I believe smart summon was originally listed as an EAP feature (possibly on the S order page), so many are expecting that to still be an EAP feature, but who knows. I would gladly take it as my first FSD feature, but I am sure the EAP folks would not be happy.

View attachment 436646

If you go by this - you already have one FSD feature. Freeway NOA.

 

[Az_Rael]

If you go by this - you already have one FSD feature. Freeway NOA.

They gave that to the EAP owners too (part of on ramp to off ramp). So nothing so far has required the extra $3k. I actually did think NoA was going to be the first FSD package feature, but that isnt how it turned out .

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If you go by this - you already have one FSD feature. Freeway NOA.

Yup. FSD Secured! And it's sublime:

“Well, we already have Full Self-Driving capability on highways. So from highway on-ramp to highway exiting, including passing cars and going from one highway interchange to another, Full Self-Driving capability is there. In a few weeks, we’ll be pushing an update that will allow the option of removing stalk confirm (for Navigate on Autopilot) in markets where regulators will approve it, which would be the case in the US, for example.

“And over time, probably all regulators will approve it. But we kept stalk confirm there to make sure that we took care of any strange corner cases. It’s really quite sublime if you have stalk confirm off and the car goes from highway on-ramp, passed the slower cars, takes the interchanges and then takes the exit and then comes to a stop after the exit. It’s really quite profound to have that experience.” - Elon Musk

Yes, I know this quote has been posted many times before.

 

[EVDRVN]

If you go by this - you already have one FSD feature. Freeway NOA.

I have EAP and if not I would not pay $49.95 for NOA or any of the other over priced EAP features. I would gladly have them disabled for a refund or SC credit.

 

[Big Dog]

I have EAP and if not I would not pay $49.95 for NOA or any of the other over priced EAP features. I would gladly have them disabled for a refund or SC credit.

The only EAP features I use are auto lane change, auto steer and TACC. Don't need summon or NoA.

 

[EVNow]

They gave that to the EAP owners too (part of on ramp to off ramp). So nothing so far has required the extra $3k. I actually did think NoA was going to be the first FSD package feature, but that isnt how it turned out .

Then features like stopping for stop light / stop sign would be the first feature that would be FSD exclusive (assuming enhanced summon will also go out EAP).

 

[diplomat33]

Are you personally going to back that statement? Sounds pretty definitive.

@diplomat33 is blessed with infectious optimism! I hope he's right!

I wonder what flavor he drinks?

Here it is. Notice it even has that 2016 video on the order screen. So capable of conducting trips with no driver action.

The fact is that the "old" FSD website that Az quotes never said WHEN FSD would be released. It only described WHAT FSD would be. Yes, Elon tweeted timelines for FSD but the website itself never promised WHEN FSD would come.

You won't find any specific date on the old website. Do you see a date on that FSD order page? I don't!

It is only when Tesla added the FSD list and the "coming later this year" that they attached a specific date to FSD features. I am not drinking the kool aid. I am not saying that the FSD features will definitely come by end of this year (although yes, I am optimistic that we will at least get the traffic light detection feature by end of this year since it is supposed to come out with V10).

What I am saying is that the "coming later this year" is a deadline we can hold Tesla to. I am saying that we at least have a deadline now that we can judge Tesla by.

 

[diplomat33]

In the end, I just want ONE thing the EAP owners don't get. Just one and I will be a happy camper. Doesn't have to be real FSD or anything, just something I can say that I paid $3k and got X.

And you will get one. Be patient. Tesla is much closer to releasing a FSD feature now than they were 3 years ago. The website says "end of this year". Even if Tesla is late, we should get at least 1 FSD feature (probably the traffic light response that is in V10) no later than early next year. So not that long.

My guess is that traffic light response will come out in Sept-Oct 2019 and the first version of "automatic city driving" with driver supervision will come out around March 2020.

 

[Octo]

I think it’s truly bizarre to defend the official FSD marketing material from 2016/17 in 2H2019 with “bbbut they didn’t say WHEN!!!”. Any other business that accepts $6000-$7000 without delivering (other than token features) for 2-3 years (!!!) would end up in court. Again.

 

[golfpilot]

My brother was nagging me to take the 3k deal on FSD.... I have 30k miles on my car and really enjoy EAP. If I bought into FSD, I would spend the next year or more fighting Tesla to install the chip and when they do my warranty would be half over. I have played this Tesla game for too long. Early bird ends up on the bbq. Fooled me more than once. I love my car but my trust in Tesla owner support is pretty dang low.

 

[happyzod]

This is exactly the same as any other AV company. Everyone is attempting to continuously improve until they can prove that their systems are safe based on statistics. I can't really think of another way of doing it...
Currently Waymo and Cruise are effectively operating as level 2 systems since they require an alert driver, just like Tesla.

Nope. Other companies are operating in geo-fenced areas and developing thousands of "scenarios" the car has to handle. Thus they will neatly go through the L2 to L5 progression since their approach is to find local solutions to the FSD problem while Tesla's approach is to find a general solution.

 

[happyzod]

Probably a topic for another thread - but I don't think they need any more Teslas. Now it is just a matter of rolling out features, getting needed training data and getting better. They can already get a lot more data than they need. If you see verygreen's hacking data - the triggers are already being set for 0.1% probability of collection. SO they have 1000x more data than they need !

May be when they geographically expand AP/FSD, they need more cars in those areas.

It depends on how fast they iterate. Adding more Tesla's will improve the rate at which they validate changes. Lets say you came up with a new build and want to validate some .001% scenario. Having 10 million cars on the road will help you test faster, thus iterate faster compared to 1 million cars.

 

[Az_Rael]

It is only when Tesla added the FSD list and the "coming later this year" that they attached a specific date to FSD features. I am not drinking the kool aid. I am not saying that the FSD features will definitely come by end of this year (although yes, I am optimistic that we will at least get the traffic light detection feature by end of this year since it is supposed to come out with V10).

Well, according to the website enhanced summon is released today. And for whatever reason, they haven't removed that statement which wouldn't take that much time to remove. No "coming soon" or "only to the private beta" or anything.

Seems like a great claim for false advertising, but oh well.