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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Breaking: Deutsche Bank cuts Tesla 2027 delivery estimate by more than 1 million, froM 3.315 mil to 2.144 mil. 2027 EPS estimate likewise slashed from $4.25 to $2.40.

Are they always bearish or is this new?

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i am currently backtesting this for data since 2017

basically, is there a way for retailers to follow the money (and stop the guessing)?

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Breaking: Deutsche Bank cuts Tesla 2027 delivery estimate by more than 1 million, froM 3.315 mil to 2.144 mil. 2027 EPS estimate likewise slashed from $4.25 to $2.40.

Are they always bearish or is this new?

Not sure if you have access to TipRanks, but their guy covering Tesla is Emmanuel Rosner. Based on how he rates the stock and what I recall from earnings calls he's usually mildly bullish but not too adventurous in either direction. Emmanuel Rosner | Deutsche Bank Stock Analyst - TipRanks.com
 
Breaking: Deutsche Bank cuts Tesla 2027 delivery estimate by more than 1 million, froM 3.315 mil to 2.144 mil. 2027 EPS estimate likewise slashed from $4.25 to $2.40.

Are they always bearish or is this new?

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Ok, now we know FOR SHO’ that DT is trying to push the stock down to let institutional buyers in.. I’ll take that bet for >2.14M 2027 sales.. this day, the next day and the one after that.
 
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Any guess why most of the heavy puts are hanging out on May 17 when ER is 4/23. Those extra two weeks aren't cheap.

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Maybe the idea is let the terrible earnings + the usual Elon's earnings call negativity do the work the week of earnings and then orchestrate a coordinated short attack the following two weeks to flush out remaining weak hands?
 
Ron Baron’s son:

“The Model 2 is a crucial piece of our thesis. If they stopped that, that is investment thesis-changing,” David Baron, a portfolio manager at Baron Capital Inc. and son of Wall Street veteran Ron Baron, said in an interview.

“Baron, who oversees the $1.4 billion Baron Focused Growth Fund, said he will be “very surprised” if Tesla’s Model 2 is taken off the table and said growth will accelerate with the new car.

 

Isn’t Elon supposed to be a good listener without any ego ;) (heard this on CNBS a few weeks ago ) :)


Let's hope the likes of Ron Barron are in Elon's ear prior to earnings.

For the RT car (RT could also be in other form factors), it should share 90+% with M2. So how hard to say we are building a line that will support both RT and M2.If in 18 mths RT is solved line is there to make RT. If RT is not solved, line is there to make M2. How hard is that from 1st principles approach ?
 
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Maybe the idea is let the terrible earnings + the usual Elon's earnings call negativity do the work the week of earnings and then orchestrate a coordinated short attack the following two weeks to flush out remaining weak hands?
That, and IF Earnings is really poor and possibly IF estimates come down, then over the following few days, week all the analysts are going to further reduce price targets and BHS recommendations.
 
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We arrived at our vacation home yesterday. Downloaded FSD 12.3.3.
Just used it to go to Costco, Trader Joes, and then home. Not an easy drive. Difficult left turns, roundabouts, speed bumps. It did it 100% robotaxi level with no interventions. At my house it pulled over and stopped (didn't go into the driveway). My mind is blown that we are down 40% this year on less auto growth when FSD is very close to being solved.

I sold 172.5CC for next week at $1 earlier today. I couldn't get myself to pull the trigger on 160 strikes or lower. With the stock down so much this year going into ER, I wonder if we actually go Green next week. Who knows.
I am equally blown away by just how good the current FSD is. I found the Auto Max Speed setting particularly good - great job of choosing the car's speed most of the time.

I agree that in the march of 9s, this edition of FSD is a big step forward towards robotaxi. I do not agree that FSD, or at least FSD as something more than supervised driving assist, is very close to being solved. Though this might be a terminology thing - there is solved as in it does most everything necessary but in a "lab" or restricted setting. When I hear 'solved' that sounds like we're ready for the regulators, business model, and other issues having to do with adoption and deployment, rather than significant remaining technical development reliability improvements.

I've also worked in a closely related field, and I've seen models that reached the right stage of development that just take off in how fast they improve in quality and usability of the output. These can easily be a 99% effort for 20% of value (the data management task of building the infrastructure and data structures and on and on that collects and labels the data, the processing engine that can train and retrain on all that data, etc..) followed by the 1% effort (training on that data, and evolving the models) for 80% of value. In these situations there's no meaningful discount on the data management work - you gotta do it all to get to start on the 1%. Shortcuts are how people get a public demo from a technology that has no hope of development into a solution.


All that being said, I don't see FSD (or at least robotaxi) as close to being solved. If we decide that robotaxi doesn't need to navigate residential driveways and stuff - just needs to be able to pull up and stop in places that Lyft does, then it actually seems like the current version is headed in that direction. I've even had it navigate a Whole Foods parking lot and pull up to the front door as if it were dropping me off there.

That's more evidence of getting closer.

If we routinely notice the improvements from version to version, then we're not there - not for robotax. At least months after we've stopped noticing the release to release improvements, with our perception being of really high quality - a period of time in which the invisible march of 9s is going on - that's when robotaxi is getting closer to the actual monetization efforts (building vehicles, a network, regulators, ...).


Of course - we're not trading the company and the technology. We're trading the broad market view of the technology and its monetization. How do investors view the technology? An important reason why I see a ChatGPT moment being hard to come by - there are maybe 100k people in the US that can have and do have personal experience with FSD. That's just not enough people for a ChatGPT moment.
 
My $149 limit order finally hit today, as we all knew it would. On the bounce I sold $150 calls against them for next week. Also rolled this weeks $155 sold put to next week at 150.

I really don’t know if we’ll get moody monotone Elon talking about AI or we’ll get jazzed up Elon giving some hope. I’m thinking door #1 unfortunately. At least I’ll be able to write more calls on all my new shares. 😂 Though how much will I really get for $150 calls when the stock is $80. 😂
 
What a mess, no?. The few LEAPS that I bought for 2026 are destroyed. I am already counting them as a total lost in my head and I going to let them ride out. I need $280 by Jan 2026 to breakeven.

I have 60x Dec 2025 +c200's that are 75% down right now and 40x Jun 2026 +c200's about 35% down, fortunately I bought those fairly recently

I will roll the Dec 2025's to Dec 2026 for and extra $13, and then I have, let's say 120x expiries to write against, so $1 weeklies and patience will get my money back

SP needs to get to around $240 to sell the lot for break-even, I don't think it's out of the question that we get a rally somewhere in the next 2.5 years, if not I'll roll them forwards again

Now I have them, they're cheap to keep and maintain, and form the long of calendar diagonals, at no extra cost

So true!

But I do have these spreads to cover some of the losses of my shares (on top of the written calls, which are losing value). I would hate to sell the spreads and then see it drop a lot more. I think I will wait a bit more as I have not seen capitulation yet. It has been a gradual decline and it doesn't feel like the bottom is in yet.

I think someone else also said, sell half, get your money back, let the rest run? Alternatively, take the profits and rewrite at lower stakes for less, but to capture lower SP if it happens?

I’m in a similar boat. I have a bunch of sold calls from last summer and winter that I’m up 80-90% on. But I want to at least wait until Jan 2025 to close them out so that the corresponding taxes won’t be due until the following April.

But for mine, the strikes price are all at 400 and above. The lower we keep going, the more comfortable I feel letting those actually ride out until they die for nothing

Can't you roll them down to a strike that nets you enough extra profit to cover the taxes? When I have far OTM calls or puts like that I roll them to weeklies and closer to the money, so I recuperate the lost premium and have them expire

Any advice on how to handle my Jun 2026 300P?

Not advice, just ideas: Flip to 6x Dec 2026 -c300? Or 2:1 -200 ratio straddle? 3x -p170?

I think your imminent problem is early assignment - there's only 55OI at that strike and no extrinsic getting low
 
That, and IF Earnings is really poor and possibly IF estimates come down, then over the following few days, week all the analysts are going to further reduce price targets and BHS recommendations.
There is a risk that Elon's all nice and upbeat on the call and says "of course we're going to make the compact car, was a complete misunderstanding"

Imagine... I mean that would burn the short seller big time, and a lot of us here too if it were to happen

Something to think about hedging between now and then
 
There is a risk that Elon's all nice and upbeat on the call and says "of course we're going to make the compact car, was a complete misunderstanding"

Imagine... I mean that would burn the short seller big time, and a lot of us here too if it were to happen

Something to think about hedging between now and then
Yes market always misunderstands when Elon says a few words ..

"taking private"
"pedo"
"balls to the wall"
"flufferbot"

a longer medium suits him better ;)
 
It essentially boils down to how trustworthy is Elon? Remember how quick he was to tweet that Reuters is lying when they said the compact car is shelved.
But once the dust settled, everyone now believes Reuters and not Elon anymore .May be it’s Elon and his too literal tweets ( remember the no more “ unplanned “ sale of shares tweet) make him less believable now. What a travesty !
Has everyone resigned to the fact that it’s Elon who is lying and his is just lawyer talk ?Sad times .