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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Is anyone else thinking of opening aggressive BPS positions starting in December?

With 4q numbers likely to be very solid as well as Giga Texas and Berlin (Berlin may be a little late) to open soon, and with Elon's selling out of the way, I'm leaning to being more aggressive in my BPS. Maybe $50 spreads instead of $100, and $150 or $100 from the SP on the short side. At least that's what I consider aggressive.

Just seems like a prime opportunity to ramp things up.
Yes, I've been thinking about this as well. I feel like Elon's selling is artificially pushing us down, but we could recover quickly in late Nov/early Dec.

I also feel better about being able to manage BPS positions rather than a BCS, if need be. With a BCS, the SP could take off and never come back, but with a BPS, I think once it gets rolled low enough, buyers will inevitably return and the SP will recover.
 
Is anyone else thinking of opening aggressive BPS positions starting in December?

With 4q numbers likely to be very solid as well as Giga Texas and Berlin (Berlin may be a little late) to open soon, and with Elon's selling out of the way, I'm leaning to being more aggressive in my BPS. Maybe $50 spreads instead of $100, and $150 or $100 from the SP on the short side. At least that's what I consider aggressive.

Just seems like a prime opportunity to ramp things up.
Yes, I've posted that I will get more aggressive with my BPS around mid-December. But having been burned by $50 spreads, if I get closer to the SP, I will keep my maneuvering capability by using $200 spreads. I don't want to get close to the SP and then box myself in with $50 spreads. Turns it too much into gambling.
 
bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time

I guess the only two negative things I can think of that might push us below $1000 and keep it that way by Jan exp would be:
1) Elon sells more shares (he's in a Twitter spat with Bernie Sanders this AM, and asked him if he wants him to sell more shares . . . )
2) is the reverse gamma squeeze over?

I don't know the answer to either of those questions, but they are on my mind. And the proposed trade is pretty close to the money.
 
bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time
I like it.. hmm.. but what will you do if we drop to 800 or below in the next couple weeks, and stay there?
Management method of "hope like hell the stock recovers" isn't a very good method..

I don't think we do, but would not be too surprised if we did..
 
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bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time
Bonjour!

I think that you should consider waiting until the middle of this week.
 
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bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time
Interesting idea. Way to close to the SP for my taste. You made me look at 700/900, but I realized I can make the same amount of money selling weeklies while staying farther from the SP, which I think are safer because I'm farther from the SP and I can move the target each week if anything bad starts happening.
 
I have 11/19, 65 -p900/+p830 and 38 -c1400/+c1500. The IC is up 25k at 57%, but with the Elon still selling this week, I don’t have enough confidence that 900 isn’t out of the question this week. I’m debating either closing the spread or rolling it out to the following week. I’m thinking to give it till Tuesday or Wednesday, but if we get below 1000 and don’t come back up quickly, then I can see us coming down and would want to roll and improve strikes and hopefully add some more credit
 
bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time
That trade would take about 13M in cash/margin space to execute at my broker. And it gets worse if SP starts sliding down. So yeah, if you have over $20M in available margin, seems like an ok trade...
 
That trade would take about 13M in cash/margin space to execute at my broker. And it gets worse if SP starts sliding down. So yeah, if you have over $20M in available margin, seems like an ok trade...
Why would they require so much? Max loss is $2.5 million before you account for the money you received selling the BPS. Making actual max loss of $1.5 million.

And no sliding of stock price would change the max...
 
bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time

But Q4 earnings may not be reported by Jan 21st, so you are relying on production report really.

We are just above $1000 right now, I would be mostly be concerned about any Black Swan event killing it. Market correction, FSD 'ban', etc... Anyone would give you max loss.
 
Know thyself. A fantastic example.

I agree that this IS real work. At least for me, I believe that to do this well, there has to be at least something about this that is fascination to fun about it. If this were work, in the sense of something that I was making myself do, then I wouldn't be doing it well.


NOT-ADVICE; just way that I see things. Worth working out your own examples to see if you agree.


The way I see rolling in general, and spreads more particularly... when a position is close to the money or in the money, and the purpose of the roll being considered is to buy time for the share price to turn around and the position to move back OTM (vs, a convenience roll - confirm the profit for this week, while opening the position for next week), then:

There is a balance between rolling too soon, and rolling too late that we're looking for. Of course if the crystal ball was always clear then it'd be easy, but the crystal ball is cloudy.

The factors that affect the roll - everything else being equal we'd like to roll with the time value as close to 0 as possible. The rationale is that on a roll we are buying out the time value remaining in the old position so we can sell the time value in the new position. The less time value in the old position, the less there is to buy out. Or a different way of thinking about the same thing - our earnings are in the time value; the less of there is remaining, the more that we've earned. That mostly means that the closer to expiration, the better.

The other factor is just how deeply ITM one goes. Generally speaking the quality of the available roll decreases as the share price approaches the short strike and continues getting worse as you go further and further ITM. It seems like the very best rolls are ATM or slightly OTM, but are still good enough that waiting a few extra days while going slightly ITM is a better tradeoff (time value melting away).

Too soon and you're buying out more time value than you want to (lower quality position to roll into), and too late may see you get too deeply ITM, thereby lowering the quality of the position you can roll to.

My own bias in this tradeoff is to roll early and for maximum strike improvement (subject to a net credit). There are two reasons for this:
1) The maximum strike improvement is going to get me the best protection if THIS move is a biggie. Most of them aren't, but if this is the one, then I'd like to have given myself the very best chance of staying ahead of it, so the shares can reverse.
2) I view the roll as buying time and that means I'll have a week (or more) of effectively no earnings. Earnings going to 0 for a week or more is way better than realizing losses. And since I'm in this for income, and I've got enough buffer from the weeks that win, one of the uses for those winning weeks is to allow for weeks with no income. Oh - and realized losses are bad, really bad, for income :D

Rolling early if the shares aren't gapping up and down will bias towards still OTM. If I'm close to expiration and OTM, then I might split the difference on the roll - find out my max strike improvement and then come back 1 strike so I get a bit of income that week while still providing lots of coverage if this is a BIG move against me.


From what I've seen high IV provides significantly better rolling choices, while also being an environment in which more rolls are needed (can't get something for nothing).

I learned at the beginning of the year when IV was high that I could get an effective roll while $80 ITM. Shares around 720 and strike around 800 on some puts, so 10% ITM at that point, where effective = credit + strike improvement available, whether I take the strike improvement or not. A month later with IV down, I no longer had an effective roll when $40 or $50 ITM. I don't have a formula here - I just regularly setup candidate rolls when its possible that I might be needing them soonish so I can see just what's available.

I learned that there are situations where a 1 week roll is barely or not effective, while the 2 week roll IS effective. Or 1 week vs 3 or 4 weeks. I personally choose to not roll out to more than 4 weeks, at least without a lot of thought about it. I've rolled out to 1 and 2 years before and really didn't like that dynamic. Once I'm up to 3-5 weeks to expiration then it might be time to take assignment (or the loss) and move on.

I've seen situations where the 2-4 week roll is much more than 2-4 1 week rolls. And heck - if you're deep enough in the doodoo, then I've rolled for as much as a month just to avoid the weekly work (and get a better credit).

When really deeply ITM on naked puts and calls, the time value will approach 0 much sooner than the day before expiration. I keep an eye on that and have been in situations where I was rolling 1 week ahead of expiration to avoid early assignment (a good time to be considering monthly rolls). That doesn't guarantee no early assignment - I just don't try to push time value really, really low. Probably around .30 to .50 is as close as I've gone (guessing at the number - it is at least directionally accurate).

And last that I can think of right now - spreads have different roll characteristics from plain short options. These are best seen in a really tight spread, but the dynamic applies to some degree to any spread. To the degree that a spread behaves like a short put|call, then the rolls that maintain the spread size should be expected to behave similarly or the same. From what I've seen this relationship holds pretty well through 1/4th of the way into the spread. So $50 on a $200 wide spread.

The spread stops rolling for a credit or strike improvement at the mid point.

Rolls past the midpoint of the spread are a net worsening of the position, either by paying a debit to maintain the strikes, worsening the strikes, and/or bringing more capital into the trade.

And somewhere in there - probably the midpoint and lower - adding more time to the roll doesn't change the quality of the roll that is available. I think that what's going on here is that the % change in time value for the long and short legs are now changing roughly the same, so whether you add 1 week or 4, the time value relationship between the two changes about the same, thus little or no extra value in more time. Maybe even a worse roll with more time - I haven't tested this though.
More great nuggets from adiggs, saved again to my Pages document of great information.

FYI, Apple autoincorrects addigs to adages...

plural noun: adages
  1. a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth.


 
I have 11/19, 65 -p900/+p830 and 38 -c1400/+c1500. The IC is up 25k at 57%, but with the Elon still selling this week, I don’t have enough confidence that 900 isn’t out of the question this week. I’m debating either closing the spread or rolling it out to the following week. I’m thinking to give it till Tuesday or Wednesday, but if we get below 1000 and don’t come back up quickly, then I can see us coming down and would want to roll and improve strikes and hopefully add some more credit
I have 11/19 -p970/+p770 BPS which were rolls from 11/12 -p1010/+p810. I bet these will keep rolling till Elon is done selling...
 
bonjour, mes amis... (good morning, my friends)

has anyone thought of jan21 BPS 900/1000?

breakeven $960, $40 premium, $1M credit if x250

one-shot deal avoids the ongoing weekly uncertainties

POP 60% but calculators don't know about Q4 results AND Elon sales done by that time
Bonne soirée, j’espère que tu as passé une belle fin de semaine.

Just took a look at the jan23 1000 strike puts. If you sell 50 contracts you cash in 1.1M today and don’t have to look at stock prices for 2 years. Just the 19th of Jan23! $772 break even! However the margin requirement is bulky.
 
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That isn't true. If the stock price drops significantly there is risk of early assignment.
1. There's a lot of time value there $232 to start.
2. It's a pure put, so early assignment just means shares that one can sell and reput, write CC against, or just hold. One doesn't need to avoid assignment.
3. @OrthoSurg if you make it a 1000/500 put spread, you cut margin/ cash requirements in half for only a $35 reduction in premium. One of the big reasons I'm considering switching some accounts to Fidelity from Vanguard.